Ugandan MP says new anti-gay bill could be law soon

After a tumultuous end to business in the last session involving the Anti-Homosexuality Bill, the current Ninth Parliament of Uganda continues to organize itself for business. Last week, committees were formed and rules or order are being devised.  Jockeying for power and influence occupy the efforts of those in the ruling party and those in the opposition.

Lawmaking is probably a month away but one legislator is predicting that a re-introduced Anti-Homosexuality Bill will be law within two months. Otto Odonga, a member of the committee which Legal and Parliamentary Affairs committee in the 8th and now again in the 9th Parliament told me via Skype that he expects David Bahati to reintroduce the bill as soon as possible. He predicted that the bill will come to the floor of Parliament as soon as rules allow.

“It will be expedited this time around and passed within one, maybe two months time,” the MP said. Odonga also told me that Stephen Tashobya, the chair of the Legal and Parliamentary Affairs committee, was re-appointed to that same post in the new Parliament. While Bahati will need to start from scratch on the bill, the committee will be able to use the report issued last session as a basis for their work this time around. That report called for minimal changes and retained the death penalty for certain offenses. Odonga said the bill has wide support in the Parliament.

As a follow up on a prior story, Odonga also said that David Bahati was selected to be the coordinator of the Parliamentary Prayer Fellowship.

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  • http://www.leonardoricardosanto.blogspot.com Leonardo Ricardo

    Ah yes, Otto ¨I´d kill my son if he were Gay¨ Odonga is no doubt lining up whatever slimelike Parliamentary campaign he can rise to great heights of self-imagined notoriety with–it´s sad to see the degree of ignorance and simple bad judgment a bigmouthed MP like Otto has…btw, Otto doesn´t even have a son but no doubt would kill anyone with whom he finds to be ¨different¨ sexually!

    Sad daze in Uganda repeating themselves again.

  • Richard Willmer

    We must not lose sight of the fact that the Tashobya amendments left intact provisions for the slaughter of those who in consensual sex.

  • Richard Willmer

    And it does seem extraordinary that, at a time when food prices in UG are rising, chronic food shortages are hitting other East African countries and the UG Shilling’s value continues to decline, that some UG MPs seem to think that spitting in the face of the international community is something worth doing. Let’s hope that ‘cooler heads’ prevail, as they have done on the past two occasions when the Bahati Bill came close to being enacted.

    BTW, my earlier comment should have ended with the words “… who engage in consensual sex.”

  • Maazi NCO

    And it does seem extraordinary that, at a time when food prices in UG are rising, chronic food shortages are hitting other East African countries and the UG Shilling’s value continues to decline….

    Thanks for reminding us of our problems. Now mind your own country’s business.

    …. that some UG MPs seem to think that spitting in the face of the international community is something worth doing. …

    Since when has western nations who represent around 10% of the world’s population become the “international community”? Is this some kind of joke?

    Let’s hope that ‘cooler heads’ prevail, as they have done on the past two occasions when the Bahati Bill came close to being enacted.

    You have no idea what is going down in Kampala. Bahati’s revised bill is just one of several legislative approaches looming in the horizon. I am confident that everybody in Uganda have learnt from “past experience”. We are ready this time. No mistakes. Gay advocacy in Uganda will come to an end before the 9th Parliament disbands.

  • Maazi NCO

    Ah yes, Otto ¨I´d kill my son if he were Gay¨ Odonga is no doubt lining up whatever slimelike Parliamentary campaign he can rise to great heights of self-imagined notoriety with–it´s sad to see the degree of ignorance and simple bad judgment a bigmouthed MP like Otto has…btw, Otto doesn´t even have a son but no doubt would kill anyone with whom he finds to be ¨different¨ sexually!

    The irony of the situation was that MP Odongo Otto was one of the parliamentarians that initially opposed the original Bahati Bill on grounds that it was duplicating existing laws. ( I did not agree with the Bill because of its harsh provisions.)

    But then, Odongo started seeing all manners of western-controlled gay sex militants in Uganda coming out of the woodwork to defend their “right” to engage in the abominable act of gayism. This annoyed him greatly. It was then that it finally dawned on him that the Ugandan State needed some kind of law to restrict the activities of deviants for the sake of posterity. None of us here in Uganda want to see the nonsense happening in New York in a couple of decades. I don’t even want my grand kids to see these things in their life time !

  • Maazi NCO

    Last week, committees were formed and rules or order are being devised. Jockeying for power and influence occupy the efforts of those in the ruling party and those in the opposition.

    Ah interesting ! Warren !!!

    You even found time between the confetti and the wine bottles popping to celebrate New York State’s approval of “matrimony” for gay sex practitioners to “spy” on the Ugandan Parliament via our newspapers. Thank God, many of our plans do not make it to the print or electronic media. This parliamentary year is shaping up to be an interesting one. Since I cannot prevent you from snooping on our country, may I wish you happy a marathon newspaper reading operation. Don’t just read the New Vision and Daily Monitor. Also read the Ugandan Record, Ugandan Independent, Ugandan Observer, UG Pulse and Red Pepper. You can even try reading BUKEDDE, our native Lugandan language newspaper or ORUMURI newspaper which is written in Runyankole language. You never know what important news may be locked away in these native language newspapers. Get CIA linguists to translate for you.

  • http://www.leonardoricardosanto.blogspot.com Leonardo Ricardo

    …But then, Odongo started seeing all manners of western-controlled gay sex militants in Uganda coming out of the woodwork to defend their “right” to engage in the abominable act of gayism.¨ Maazi

    Just plain stupid. Odongo started his yammerings when the Human Rights Conference took place in Kampala–wiser, all-African minds prevailed as MP Otto Odongo appeared in front of God and everyone else to be the deadly fool/chump that he was/is…Makau Mutua, the chairman of Kenya’s Human Rights Commission and a co-organizer of the conference head

    moved silently from side to side in wonderment of such vicious grandstanding.

    http://leonardoricardosanto.blogspot.com/2010/02/death-threat-from-daddy-mp-odonga.html

  • Richard Willmer

    Hello ‘Maazi NCO’!

    On the subject of the ‘international community’: I think you’ll find that the governments of such important emerging powers as Brazil and South Africa are not inclined to support the ‘Bahati approach’ (which isn’t, as you seem to claim, merely about opposing advocacy for things like “gay marriage”, but about legalizing the arbitrary slaughter of ‘groups’ of people).

    Beware ‘misguided nationalism’: don’t support Bahati – even though you can see perfectly well that his Bill is vicious and totalitarian – just because you want to ‘make a point’ about UG’s sovereignty. We all have to recognize that we live in an interconnected world, and repression spawned in Kampala can have serious implications for other countries as well as for Uganda.

  • Pingback: Uganda: Anti-Homosexuality Bill kan vedtas i høst | Homonytt fra hele verden

  • Maazi NCO

    Makau Mutua, the chairman of Kenya’s Human Rights Commission and a co-organizer of the conference head

    Professor Makau Mutua should concentrate on his own country and let Ugandans handle their own nation. Unlike members of the western-centric Kenyan elite, Ugandans do not kiss the ass of Americans and Europeans or copy them sheepishly.

    you can see perfectly well that his Bill is vicious and totalitarian – just because you want to ‘make a point’ about UG’s sovereignty.

    With adequate amendments, the revised Bahati Bill will be a masterpiece legislation taking in the aspirations of the Ugandan people. And Yes, it is important for me to make the point that Uganda is a sovereign state in the hope that western imperialists will get it through their thick skulls.

    Brazil and South Africa are not inclined to support the ‘Bahati approach

    That is not the point. Brazil, Argentina or South Africa may love gayism, but they are not imposing it on the Ugandan people. Brazil and South Africa have not set up puppet advocacy groups in Kampala to annoy the Ugandan people. The Argentinian government does not put pressure on African nations to legalize gayism. The imperialist Europeans and the Americans want to impose this debased sexual behaviour on the Ugandan people and that is totally unacceptable !!

  • Richard Willmer

    So, ‘Maazi NCO’, you are saying that the revised Bahati Bill (which still contains ‘slaughter provisions’ relating to people who, for example, quietly live together bothering noone) is a ‘masterpiece’?

    Does this mean that your line is effectively something like this: “I don’t like what ‘westerners’ are (allegedly) doing, so I’m going to support proposals to slaughter some Ugandans? Don’t quite see the logic there, dearie!

  • Richard Willmer

    (Of course, ‘Maazi’s’ rhetoric about ‘debased seuxal behaviour’ is entirely justified, since all Ugandans are ‘as pure as the driven snow’ – they never have ‘side-dishes’; they never lie about what they get up to in private; no Ugandan even rapes anyone or defiles a child; no Ugandan child is taught about homosexuality so that he/she then take part in demonstrations against it; no Ugandan pastor ever gives a public porn show. Uganda is the paragon of moral purity in every way, and an oasis of peace and tranquility.)

  • http://www.leonardoricardosanto.blogspot.com Leonardo Ricardo

    Uganda is the paragon of moral purity in every way, and an oasis of peace and tranquility.)¨ Richard Willmer

    Love this. If anyone is interested in viewing real heterosexual trash (and behavior) all one need do is look at the FRONT PAGE sidebar ads on any of Ugandas sleezy Tabloids (most popular source of reading material in Uganda) of course the ¨affairs¨ and such of ¨cafe society¨ rival any hell-raising venues in the known world…really, doesn´t Mazzi feel proud to note the great virtues of Ugandas doublestanding crowd? Heck, Ugandans are actual, living and breathing human beings just like us! Meanwhile, the zippers go down, down, down and child witchburning is on the rise…pathetic examples of ¨religious¨ grandstanding in Uganda as Archbishop Henry Luke Orombi pontificates about ¨Godly¨ virtues he himself doesn´t posess.

  • Richard Willmer

    To be fair to ‘Ugandan Archbishops’, people like Archbishops Lwanga and Odama appear rather more ‘thoughtful’ than Orombi. The impression I have is that John-Baptist Odama is a peace-loving man who avoids the kind of hysterical (and even violent) ‘moral screaming’ one hears from certain pseudo-religious quarters.

  • Richard Willmer

    Archbishop Lwanga (unlike Archbishop Odama, who seems to be have nothing at all in public about the Bahati Bill) has made this (rather curious) statement: “The introduction of the death penalty and imprisonment for homosexual acts targets people rather than seeking to counsel and to reach out in compassion to those who need conversion, repentance, support and hope.”

    It’s ‘curious’ because people can already be imprisoned for life in Uganda for certain same-sex activity, and because it implies that the Archbishop is opposed to both executing and imprisoning people for (consensual) same-sex activity.

    This is perhaps significant. It must be remembered that, while the ‘screaming pastors’ make lots of noise, the Catholic Church is large and powerful (and its leaders in Zambia are also subtly trying to move people away from virulent homophobia through carefully-worded messages, eg.http://clericalwhispers.blogspot.com/2011/05/catholic-church-does-not-support.html).

    Of course, Archbishop Lwanga does not ‘approve’ of same-sex activity (and this is in line with the ‘official position’ of the Catholic Church, and the convictions of many Catholics), but it is clear that neither does he approve of Bahati’s vicious antics.

  • Richard Willmer

    Another thing that is ‘significant’ about ‘the Catholic position’ is that it does reflect the view of many Ugandans with whom I’ve spoken over the last 18 months. What these Ugandan interlocutors say to me is something like this: “We don’t ‘approve’ of same-sex relationships; however we don’t think that people should criminalized simply because of their ‘agree private domestic arrangements’ or their sexual orientation” – the ‘centrist’ view, if you like.

    We all know that ‘homosexuality’ is not ‘popular’ in places like Uganda (we don’t need ‘Maazi NCO’ to tell us that), but the drive for the kind of indiscriminate slaughter wanted by Bahati and Odonga is probably not something of which many Ugandans approve. (And Bahati’s approach is ‘indiscriminate’, because it takes no account of whether the same-sex activity he wishes to punish is consensual or not; contrary to what people like WUg like to claim, the offence of ‘aggravated homosexuality’ does include sexual activity pursuant to informed consent.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Richard Willmer,

    You are a very funny guy. Misrepresentation and misinterpretation of other people’s comments is a big part of your gay propagandist trade. It is not surprising since you deliberately misrepresented comments I have made previously on this blog and elsewhere to give the impression that I do not support greater legal restrictions on gayism. Even though, it is obvious that I do.

    I can assure you that we have done our home work. You can carry on misquoting, misrepresenting and misinterpreting the comments of any Ugandan personality, but I can tell you right now that you are wasting your time. We are determined to do what it takes via legislation to keep gay sex militancy in permanent abeyance. If you don’t like it, then arrange an aeroplane to evacuate your gay sex allies to the UK. Perhaps, the snoops in Her Majesty’s Foreign and Commonwealth Office could pay for a charter flight for the Durnkirk-style evacuation of the deviants. No?

  • Maazi NCO

    This is perhaps significant. It must be remembered that, while the ‘screaming pastors’ make lots of noise, the Catholic Church is large and powerful

    So the catholic church hated by most western gay sex activitists is an now an ally of the euro-american gay lobby simply because catholic church leaders are saying that gay sex practitioners should be helped to overcome their objectively disordered behaviour rather than be accepted as normal people who should be permitted to marry, celebrate pride on the streets and adopt children?

    Anyways, I am fully aware that Zambia has already drafted a new constitution which explicitly forbids gay marriage. My expectation is that the constitution will eventually be ratified by Zambian Parliament once President Rupiah Banda and his political party coasts to victory in the next election cycle.

    BTW, if you are planning to visit Zambia, please familiarize yourself with the laws of the land. The last thing I would want to learn is that you have been arrested in Lusaka for trying to “sample” the arse of a Zambian man.

  • Maazi NCO

    Of course, Archbishop Lwanga does not ‘approve’ of same-sex activity (and this is in line with the ‘official position’ of the Catholic Church, and the convictions of many Catholics), but it is clear that neither does he approve of Bahati’s vicious antics.

    BTW, though not religious, I consider myself a Catholic (in the nominal sense of the word). I understand the nuanced position of the Catholic Church on the subject of gayism, but many of us politely decline to agree such an illogical position of accepting some aspects of gayism and rejecting other aspects. Ugandans are no fools. We understand the Vatican taking such a “compromising” position since it feels the suffocation of being surrounded by obssessively pro-gay European nations. In Uganda, there is no need for such illogical nuances. We will NEVER recognize anything called “homosexual orientation”. I am very much aware from conversations that most African Catholic Bishops (deep in their hearts) silently reject such nuances despite orders from the Holy See. And Yes, you can take that to the bank !!!

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’ :

    Do you really have to mention ‘arses’ on this blog? (Mind you, given your violent and filthy mindset, it doesn’t entirely surprise me that you do!)

    May I once again point out that talking about “gay marriage” is a diversion? The Bahati Bill is not about making “gay marriage” illegal (it already is in UG) – it is about legalizing mindless slaughter.

    Finally: when it comes to illogicality, you are clearly an expert.

  • Richard Willmer

    Yes, that was a little ‘sharp’, wasn’t it?!

    Mind you, given that ‘Maazi NCO’

    (a) now calls the Bahati Bill a ‘masterpiece’ (and thus effectively condones indiscriminate slaughter), and

    (b) continues to wave his verbal machete from behind a stupid pseudonym (when noone here is threatening him with any substantive harm),

    I take the view that I have been excessively polite!

  • Richard Willmer

    Report just in from African Activist: http://www.africanactivist.org/2011/07/ugandan-mp-otto-odonga-predicts-swift.html

    And this HRW analysis reminds us that the provision to slaughter ‘consenting adults’ remains in place: http://www.hrw.org/en/news/2011/05/12/uganda-parliament-committee-backs-anti-homosexuality-bill

    From the report: “Despite the suggestion by the bill’s author, David Bahati, that the death penalty could be deleted from the legislation, the committee recommends retaining it. The committee proposes rewording the provision to align with the current Penal Code provision on “aggravated defilement,” which is punishable by death.”

    We on this blog are of course already aware that, despite Bahati’s talk of ‘concessions’, ‘genocidal provisions’ remain in the Bill. (Clause 3 was not changed, apart from the disingenuous rewording of the ‘death penalty’ part; this means that so-called ‘serial offenders’, even if they are straight, and merely trying to defend an innocent gay friend, are still ‘slated for slaughter’.) But this doesn’t seem to bother ‘Maazi NCO’ – in fact, he now appears to welcome this particularly backward and barbaric aspect of a savage piece of proposed ‘law’.

  • Maazi NCO

    Report just in from African Activist: http://www.africanactivist.org/2011/07/ugandan-mp-otto-odonga-predicts-swift.html

    So yet another gay propagandist website steals information from Dr. Throckmorton’s blog—Big Deal !!! I have always known that Throckmorton is the central news agency for many of these euro-american propagandist websites (including those masquerading as “African websites”).

    And this HRW analysis reminds us that the provision to slaughter ‘consenting adults’ remains in place…

    Human Rights Watch is just a joke and a total waste of time. It only focusses on non-Western nations. Where is its criticism of Switzerland for denying muslims their right to erect minarets on their mosques? Where is its criticism of France for denying muslim women the right to put on a face veil? I agree completely with Rwandan President Paul Kagame that Western human right activists are just a bunch of idiots !!

    We on this blog are of course already aware that, despite Bahati’s talk of ‘concessions’, ‘genocidal provisions’ remain in the Bill.

    Is this an attempt to get me to sing like a canary? Well, I will clarify some issues, but you aint getting much information from what I have to say below:

    1. There are no genocidal provisions. These things are just figments of your imagination. There will be no gas chambers and there will be no massacres.

    2. The revised bill with adequate amendments will make the punishment fit the abominable sex crime.

    3. Anyone who commits an act of buggery has violated the law of the land and therefore is not “innocent”. Such a person shall be tried in a court of law and sentenced to do time in prison.

    4. Anyone who promotes or incites people to engage in sex crimes shall be held liable equally by a court of law. A person can only incite or promote the practice of gayism when they run pro-gay puppet NGOs funded and remote-controlled by Westerners.

    5. There is no such thing as “gay”and “straight” people. Those terms are just artificial constructions developed by Western societies. Here in Uganda and in most of Africa, you either engage in normal “man-to-woman” relations or you engage in sexual deviance.

  • Richard Willmer

    Your response is really quite revealing, ‘Maazi’.

    Maybe there’ll be future revisions. But remember that Bahati hinted at ‘concessions’ before, then all that happened was that his cronies fiddled around with words in order to deceive. The Bahati clique (which appears now to include you) cannot be trusted.

    I can read, and I and others can see how the current revised Bill could be used to ‘legalize’ genocide.

  • Richard Willmer

    On the specific points you raise above:-

    1. We can read and, unless you provide us with clear details that back your claim, we continue – based on the information to hand, and on ‘past performance’ (see above) – to draw the conclusions we have already reached.

    2. You need to define terms like ‘sex crime’, or what you say is simply meaningless rhetoric.

    3. What you term “buggery” is already illegal in UG, isn’t it? Straight people also engage in this particular activity – also ‘illegally’, I believe, under the current provisions in the Penal Code. The Bahati Bill also seeks to criminalize other activities that straight people will continue to be allowed to engage in ‘legally’, so trying to imply that the Bill is really about “buggery” is simply deceit.

    4. You are misrepresentating Clause 13 of the current draft Bill. Perhaps you could tell us what the ‘real’ Clause 13 says (assuming you are working from a different draft that we don’t know about). You’ll need to provide details if you expect anyone outside your clique to believe you.

    5. That is your opinion.

    On the other (diversionary) matters you raise: why not start a (legal) campaign for face veils in France and minarets in Switzerland? My understanding is that you are free to do so, even when on French or Swiss soil. You would not be hanged for repeatedly stating your view that these things should be permitted. However, if the current Bahati Bill becomes law, you could , under the provisions in Clause 3, be hanged if you repeatedly suggested that ‘consenting adults’ should be allowed to live together in peace!

  • Richard Willmer

    You see, ‘Maazi NCO’, your essential problem (and it is big problem – morally and politically) is that while you claim no ‘genocidal intent’ in your beloved anti-gay campaign, Odonga talks about slaughtering a gay son and Bahati has let slip the fact that he wants to kill every last gay person (including, presumably, women – who cannot engage in what you term “buggery”).

    Either you are lying, or you have fundamental disagreements with the likes of Odonga and Bahati. Which is it, ‘Maazi NCO MP’? Answer please!

  • Richard Willmer

    Something else has just occurred to me: you say you don’t believe that there is such a thing as a ‘gay’ person, but Bahati apparently does believe there is such a thing, according to what he is reported to have said to Jeff Sharlet.

    From Sharlet’s article on his meeting with the aforementioned podgy parliamentarian: “Sharlet accompanied Bahati to a restaurant and later to his home, where Bahati told Sharlet that he wanted ‘to kill every last gay person.’ “ (Note the quotation marks around the words ‘to kill every last gay person’.)

    Bahati also told Rachel Maddow that he ‘loves gay people’ – suggesting once again that he believe such people ‘exist’.

    Two points for your to answer. I look forward to concise, relevant replies (assuming you are capable of such).

  • Richard Willmer

    Curious piece of news from the UK: an asylum seeker who fled UG is being threatened with deportation. Note the view of the ‘judge’ (really an ‘official’ of the UK’s immigration quango, and not a ‘proper judge’); he/she opined that there is no risk to gay people in UG.

    Maybe I should send to the aforementioned quango some of ‘Maazi NCO’s’ comments? Or perhaps to the press?

  • Maazi NCO

    Maybe I should send to the aforementioned quango some of ‘Maazi NCO’s’ comments? Or perhaps to the press?

    Normally, I would say go ahead and send my comments. But I know you as a professional deceiver. I am 100% sure that you will re-write my words or clip many of my comments to decontextualize them and give them wrong meaning. That is what you did with my comments lifted from the website of the National Catholic Reporter (NCR).

    he/she opined that there is no risk to gay people in UG.

    The UK judge is correct. There is no risk to sex deviants that do their thing in secret. The problem is when such sex deviants come out in press conferences, radio and TV to demand that the Ugandan state legitimize their behaviour and the Ugandan people accept their depraved acts as normal and perhaps, mainstream. If that chap is deported, nobody will do anything to him unless he starts flaunting his depraved lifestyle in public. BTW, how do we even know that he is really a sex deviant? Many savvy Africans desperate to get political asylum in Europe usually claim to be sodomites knowing fully well that Europeans are obssessively in love with gayism.

  • Maazi NCO

    Bahati also told Rachel Maddow that he ‘loves gay people’ – suggesting once again that he believe such people ‘exist’.

    Any intelligent person can discern that Bahati meant that he love people who are afflicted with gayism and that he wants to help them overcome that compulsive and self-destructive behaviour. It does not mean that he agrees that there are two categories of human beings—”gay” and “straight” humans.

    Like I said earlier, the “gay” and “straight” terms are just unique inventions of western societies. Those terms are meaningless to us here in Africa.

  • Richard Willmer

    “There is no risk to sex deviants [sic] that do their thing in secret,” says the disingenuous ‘Maazi NCO’ (who makes all kinds of kinds of assertions without the merest whiff of any credible evidence).

    What utter nonsense! Blackmailers and other assorted low-life will happily prey on ‘consenting adults in private’! And it seems that this is exactly what happened with the asylum seeker to whom I was referring.

    As for ‘Maazi NCO’s’ ‘spin’ regarding the alleged compassion of Bahati: it’s very much what we have come to expect from his ilk.

    And when it comes to lying … (well need I say more?!)

  • Maazi NCO

    What utter nonsense! Blackmailers and other assorted low-life will happily prey on ‘consenting adults in private’! And it seems that this is exactly what happened with the asylum seeker to whom I was referring.

    And you know this because you have lived in Uganda or have some kind of omnipresent powers that allows you to stay in your armchair in London and at the same time be physically present on the ground in Uganda to observe these alleged blackmails?

    The fact that all our mad gay sex advocates (e.g. Kasha Jacquline, Frank Mugisha and several others) are openly walking around in Uganda and granting newspaper + radio interviews without getting killed or maimed is enough evidence that I am talking the truth while you are busy doing your gay propaganda.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’ knows as well as anyone else on this blog that even those who are suspected of possibly being gay are often subjected to harassment and/or abuse. I am certainly aware of such instances, but you would not expect me to go into details, as individuals must be protected.

    David Kato was murdered, as we all know, despite being well-known. The whole episode was embarrassing for many Ugandans, especially all the confusion regarding the subsequent and ever-changing ‘police explanations’. People like Frank and Jacqueline are relatively ‘safe’ probably because of their high profile; M7 doesn’t want UG’s image to be tarnished by further bloodshed.

  • Richard Willmer

    Anyway, back to the Bill: I think it’s worth reflecting on this notion of a ‘victim of homosexuality’ (see especially Clauses 5 and 6).

    In the case of a private consensual relationship, just who is the ‘victim’? When it comes to ‘crime’, the usual pattern is that there is a ‘victim’ and a ‘perpetrator’; this pattern clearly does not apply in the case of a genuinely consensual relationship.

  • Richard Willmer

    (I should explain that my comment above is subsequent to an earlier comment currently awaiting moderation.)

  • Maazi NCO

    David Kato was murdered, as we all know, despite being well-known. The whole episode was embarrassing for many Ugandans, especially all the confusion regarding the subsequent and ever-changing ‘police explanations’.

    Gay propaganda. Kato died in the hands of his gay lover not in the hands of an ordinary Ugandan outraged by his gay-sex militancy.

    people like Frank and Jacqueline are relatively ‘safe’ probably because of their high profile;

    Long before they attained their “high profile” (starting from late 2009), nobody killed or maimed them even though their gay advocacy stretches as far back as 2005.

    M7 doesn’t want UG’s image to be tarnished by further bloodshed

    Bloodshed? What Bloodshed? A gay sex militant who lived a sexually permissive lifestyle and got himself killed by a strange man whom he bailed from prison and procured for the purposes of deviant sexual gratification?

    The problem with you foreigners is that you think you know everything when you know nothing. If you think you chaps can use the President as some kind of buffer between your unsolicited “Gay Agenda For Africa” and the parliament of Uganda, then you are sadly mistaken. I am sorry, but that sort of buffer zone is only but temporary. We have done our home work and time is on our side. The parliament has until 2016 to wrap up the work on the legislation.

  • Ken

    Richard Willmer# ~ Jul 11, 2011 at 5:24 am

    “In the case of a private consensual relationship, just who is the ‘victim’? ”

    I suspect the argument would be that the victim is society and the perpetrators are those caught.

  • Richard Willmer

    I suspect so too! But it would be a bogus argument, given the highly undesirable consequences of criminalizing, demonizing and marginalizing innocent people.

    Kenneth Kaunda has had a big ‘change of heart’ on this whole issue because he has come to realize that the benefits of decriminalizing consensual relationships far outweighs any conceivable problems. It should come as no surprise that, along with the recent rise in homophobia (and the attendant hypocrisy, sexual secrecy and sexual deceit) in UG, there has been been a rise in the rate of HIV transmission, with the main risk factor cited as marital infidelity.

    I will now share a personal story with you. Early last year I was made aware of a situation where a 15-year-old boy who had (allegedly) been sexually abused by a ‘pastor’. When I asked the family of the boy why they had not gone to the police, they said they were afraid, because of the general ‘stigma’ surrounding same-sex activity. To cut a long story short: this kind of episode shows that, when consensual relationships are treated in the same way as crimes (rape / pimping / abuse of minors), it is usually the (alleged) criminals who benefit! When UG (in time) sorts out its laws in this area, so that consensual relationships are treated in a fundamentally different manner from abuse, then many many Ugandans will benefit.

  • Richard Willmer

    (Sorry! My syntax in that last paragraph above was pretty appalling, but I think the meaning is clear! Archbishop John Sentamu has made a similar point in relation to the Bahati Bill in the past.)

    Also, an NMR-affiliated contact of mine has privately made the point to me that – especially at a time when UG faces so many economic, social and demographic challenges – stirring up controversy, as well as hatred that could lead to criminal acts such as the murder of David Kato, over a relatively small number of ‘consenting adults’ is not helpful, and that some MPs need to take a more responsible attitude.

  • Richard Willmer

    I meant ‘NRM’, not ‘NMR’ (I am an ‘academic Chemist’ by trade, so often think about NMR!).

  • Maazi NCO

    (I should explain that my comment above is subsequent to an earlier comment currently awaiting moderation.)

    It seems Warren also have one of my earlier comments awaiting moderation. I wonder why?

    Kenneth Kaunda has had a big ‘change of heart’ on this whole issue because he has come to realize that the benefits of decriminalizing consensual relationships

    Kenneth Kaunda is a joker and flip-flopper whose views oscillates between donor funds given to his NGO and the values of the Zambian people. Nobody takes him seriously any more. BTW, are you know his spokesman or his personal psychologist?

    Also, an NMR-affiliated contact of mine has privately made the point to me that – especially at a time when UG faces so many economic, social and demographic challenges – stirring up controversy, as well as hatred that could lead to criminal acts….

    No patriotic Ugandan that is sane will agree that the law of the land should be flouted with impunity. Gayism is against the law and parliament has right to look into the social, cultural, economic and political concerns of the Ugandan people NOT the concerns of a bunch of hedonistic Europeans and Americans looking to include Uganda besides Thailand as one of the top destinations for sex tourism. There is no hatred in the parliament of Uganda. People must not incite others to subvert the law of the land. Its quite simple to understand really. Conjuring images of nazism, genocide and widespread pogroms is just propaganda. I wasn’t joking when I said that we will not allow legal space for certain militants to grow and eventually in a couple of years start asking for gay marriages like in New York.

  • Maazi NCO

    POINT OF CORRECTION:

    …Nobody takes him seriously any more. BTW, are you know his spokesman or his personal psychologist?….

    The above sentence should really read as follows:

    ….Nobody takes him seriously any more. BTW, are you NOW his spokesman or his personal psychologist?….

  • Maazi NCO

    Also, an NMR-affiliated contact of mine has privately made the point to me that – especially at a time when UG faces so many economic, social and demographic challenges – stirring up controversy, as well as hatred that could lead to criminal acts such as the murder of David Kato…….

    Everyone in Uganda (except gay sex millitants and their sympathizers) knows that David Kato died in the hands of his gay lover not in the hands of an ordinary Ugandan outraged by his gay-sex militancy. Kato’s permissive lifestyle was what led him to bail a male stranger from prison and take a huge risk in inviting that stranger into his home to engage in deviant sexual behavour. I deeply suspect that you are lying because no sane Ugandan politican regardless of political affiliation will adopt the sort of gay sex propagandist tone you described in your commentary.

    15-year-old boy who had (allegedly) been sexually abused by a ‘pastor’. When I asked the family of the boy why they had not gone to the police, they said they were afraid, because of the general ‘stigma’ surrounding same-sex activity. To cut a long story short: this kind of episode shows that, when consensual relationships are treated in the same way as crimes (rape / pimping / abuse of minors), it is usually the (alleged) criminals who benefit! When UG (in time) sorts out its laws in this area, so that consensual relationships are treated in a fundamentally different manner from abuse, then many many Ugandans will benefit.

    That is a sad story. But then that is why new legislation to combat gayism contains special provisions to protect children targeted by sex deviants. Your idea that we should legalize a sex crime to avoid stigma is indeed illogical. We have laws against rape, but many women refuse to come forward when they have been raped because of social stigma. Are you going to advice us to legalize rape so that the stigma will disappear and female victims of rape can then come forward? Your views are very very very illogical. I am going to share your illogical musings with some of my colleagues just for the fun of it…

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’ just keeps threading the same old boards, hurling abuse at anyone who doesn’t agree with him. And he completely missed the point of the sad story about the abused boy – he (‘Maazi NCO’) still equates consensual sex with sexual abuse.

    The last police statement on the Kato case said that the police were not ruling out a ‘hate motive’ for Kato’s murder. In any case, I did not say that Kato’s mruder was a hate crime, merely that whipping up hatred can lead to instances such as that murder.

    I am not lying. ‘Maazi NCO’ should stop judging others by his own standards. After all, he lurks behind pseudonym, spitting venom at passers-by like, one might imagine, a puff adder on heat.

  • Richard Willmer

    “That is a sad story. But then that is why new legislation to combat gayism contains special provisions to protect children targeted by sex deviants,” says our mystery man (or is it a little committee?) from Kampala.

    The Bahati bill does not specifically mention children, and it completely fails to differentiate between consensual sex between adults and the sexual abuse of children (or indeed anyone else).

    Penal Code 129 (which is about protecting children against sexual abuse) is gender-neutral.

    Finally: remember those 40,000+ schoolgirls in 2008? Any ‘toughened’ law ‘targeted’ at those who would sexually abuse or exploit children should be comprehensive, and not just ‘aimed at gays’. I’ve been having one or two ‘little chats’ on this theme with …

  • Richard Willmer

    Of course, we all know that David Bahati is not in the slightest bit interested in ‘protecting children’. If he were, he would have thrown his energy into crafting legislation, and proposing programmes, to this end.

    The ‘protecting children’ line is simply propaganda used in an attempt to ‘justify’ the slaughter of men and women (yes – we must not forget that DB wants homosexual women to be [imprisoned for life* or] hanged, even though they can’t “b*gg*r” [to use 'M-NCO's' expression] anyone, and very very few are known ever to have abused children).

    * for a ‘one-off’ event

  • Richard Willmer

    News just in: the deportation (due this evening) of the asylum seeker to whom I referred earlier has been halted pending a fresh look at the case.

    The psychiatric expert witness in this case has, with respect to the original determination by the UKBA, said this: “… appears … to ignore my … clinical assessment.” (I have, for security reasons, edited the quote to make it ‘ungooglable’. The sense of the quote is not altered.)

  • Richard Willmer

    Recent commentary on the Kato murder trial (or apparent lack of it): http://www.africanactivist.org/2011/07/delay-in-david-katos-trial-and-its.html

  • Richard Willmer

    Re. the original post.

    From Sunday’s Monitor: “Legal practitioner and current chair of the House Committee on Government Assurance Odonga Otto [FDC, Aruu] says although it is important that Parliament does not shelve reports without debating them, whether the 9th Parliament should revisit the work of its predecessor, is an issue that calls for legal opinion from House Speaker Rebecca Kadaga.”

    This is consistent with the notion that either Bahati will have to ‘start over’ or a new bill (a more ‘subtle’ and ‘devious’ one) will need to be introduced. As a result of the uproar caused by Bahati & Co., the US and EU positions seem to be that any increased repression would be seen as ‘grave provocation’, and that current discriminatory legislation should be repealed. ‘Sources’ indicate that, post-Bahati, the aforementioned positions have ‘hardened’ considerably (remember that the US and EU were not making a huge fuss about Penal Code 145 before Bahati’s proposed ‘slaughter programme’ broke cover). Also, my own analysis of the UG press suggests that the number of homophobic articles has decreased quite dramatically in number since late 2009. There have even been a few ‘sympathetic’ articles since early 2010. This may reflect increased sensitivity on the part of the ‘powers-that-be’ in Kampala since Bahati started his campaign. This sensitivity is also indicated by other ‘sources’.