Do broken parental attachments cause homosexuality? An interview with Diana Fosha

Earlier this week, NPR produced a report briefly telling the stories of Rich Wyler and Peterson Toscano. Wyler is the co-founder of People Can Change and Journey into Manhood, both of which seek change of sexual orientation via a variety of highly provocative techniques. Toscano sought change for 17 years and then accepted that he was not changing despite a variety of methods.

In that report, Wyler and Toscano both referred to the belief that attachment disruptions with the same-sex parent contribute to homosexual attractions (Toscano now believes the theory to be completely false). Regular readers of this blog know some about the source of those ideas.

One of the more recent theorists and therapists who traffics in the reparative therapy is Joseph Nicolosi, co-founder of the National Association for the Research and Therapy of Homosexuality.

Nicolosi often refers to mainstream theorists and therapists in his talks about reparative therapy. Specifically, of late, he asserts that he has incorporated the research and insights of therapists who focus on assisting clients with disruptions in important attachments. This is not unexpected given that reparative drive theory proposes that attachment disruptions help create homosexual strivings. One such therapist referred to often in Nicolosi’s recent book, Shame and Attachment Loss: The practical work of reparative therapy, is Diana Fosha. Fosha is an accomplished psychotherapist who is widely credited as a leader in experiential therapy. She is author of the book The Transforming Power of Affect and Director of the Accelerated Experiential-Dynamic Psychotherapy Institute.

Nicolosi describes Fosha’s work with the label, Affect-Focused Therapy. In fact, if you search for Affect-Focused Therapy and Diana Fosha in Google, Nicolosi’s references to her are the first few hits. Generally, Nicolosi credits Fosha and other like-minded therapists for making reparative therapy more effective.

Over the years, I have appreciated the contributions of attachment theorists to various approaches to therapy and so Nicolosi’s reference to Fosha made me curious. I decided to contact her to find out her views on the idea that attachment disruptions play a part in orienting sexual attractions toward the same or opposite sex. I also asked her if there was new research in her area of practice that might shed light on the prospects for sexual orientation change. Here is what she had to say.

Throckmorton: Dr. Fosha, are you aware of any evidence that past attachment problems with same-sex parents can lead to homosexual attraction?

FOSHA: No. If you really think of it, half of people who have attachment problems have attachment problems with the same-sex parent. There are no studies that I am aware of that in any way link attachment problems of any kind with gender identity, sexual identity and issues of attraction. None. Attachment problems predict interpersonal problems and affect regulation patterns, and are a risk factor for compromised resilience in the face of trauma across all sexual orientations

Throckmorton: Do you know of any evidence that affect focused therapy (AFT) can change gays to straight or in some way alter a person’s sexual orientation?

FOSHA: None

Throckmorton: So then, you know of no evidence that sexual orientation can be changed from gay to straight by addressing and ameliorating attachment issues with parents or others?

FOSHA: No, none. When attachment disruptions are addressed successfully, people are generally happier and may develop stronger adult relationships, greater resilience and greater well-being, but their essential sexual orientation stays the same, whether they are straight or gay.

Throckmorton: Do you or your organization offer any trainings or educational experiences using AFT to achieve sexual reorientation?

FOSHA: No.

Throckmorton: Do you or your organization have any position on using AFT to try to achieve sexual reorientation? Are you neutral about it; favor it or oppose it?

FOSHA: I have not read Nicolosi’s work, so I would not presume to be definitive, but based on what I know from the popular media about such methods (whether this applies to his or not, I do not know) leads me to strongly oppose such efforts– and view them as misguided at best, and dangerous at worst.

While Dr. Fosha is candidly unaware of the specifics of reparative therapy, it is informative that she does not see any relationship between attachment problems and sexual orientation. If such problems were frequently associated with sexual orientation changes, I would think she would see evidence of a relationship in her work. Her experience mirrors my own – attachment problems are so pervasive among same, other and both-sex attracted people that one cannot point to these disruptions as the general driving factor behind sexual orientation.

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  • StraightGrandmother

    Makes you go Hmmmmmmm. Well I for one am really glad you made that phone call!

    I don’t get it how can this sh*t be legal? Misquoting scientific data, just flat out making sh*t up out of thin air and then footnoting it as if it were true and supports your junk science and your money machine? How can this be legal? Can’t she sue him for misrepresenting her work? I bet there are a lot of people who would like to contribute to that legal fund. It is an honest question, can’t she sue him?

  • Teresa

    Warren, thanks for digging into this with Diana Fosha. Let me be clear about this, up front, I’ve read literature from Nicolosi, so I believe I can comment somewhat intelligently on his therapeutic approach for homosexuals. I no nothing about Diana Fosha except what your Posted phone call quotes.

    I really don’t have an issue with NARTH, personally right now, because I don’t use their services. I don’t like many of the NARTH clinicians’ approach, but I don’t think all of them follow can be put in the same bucket as Nicoolosi. I think people should be able to choose what they think seems best for them in the realm of therapy, just as they do with alternative medicine. I’m sure some of Nicolosi’s clients will tell you they’ve been helped, just as some persons will tell you certain vitamins or enzymes have helped them.

    However, I’m amazed that Nicolosi has misused another peer’s writings to support his own theory/approach. Perhaps, he simply saw that Diana Fosha specialized in ‘attachment’ work, and concluded that she held the same opinion as he did.

    I think this speaks rather ill of Nicolosi’s professionalism in some fashion: either he doesn’t actually read and converse with those persons he’s recommended, or if he has … what does that say? I guess before I jump to conclusions, based on my own bias, can someone clear this up for me, because I’m tempted to conclude either Nicolosi has not done his homework well enough, or he’s deliberately skewing information.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Teresa,

    I find it scandalous. Warren wrote a really good rebuttal to Chuck Colson (God I hate Colson) over at the Christian Post. Colson wrote a piece extensively quoting Nicolosi where he claimed that parents cause their children to become gay. http://www.christianpost.com/news/do-parents-cause-homosexuality-50784/

    Nicolosi’s “theories” are built on a house of cards and Warren God Bless his soul, is exposing that.

    I also read a really good first person account, I think it was on Box Turtle Bulletin about someone who went to a Truth Wins Out (I think that is the name) Nicolosi seminar. After reading the first person account of the seminar I felt so sorry for everybody who attended. People came from far away, and all these parents were told that it is THEIR fault their child is gay. There is no other explanation than that. Can you imagine the guilt those parents must feel for the rest of their lives? People beleive Nicolosi, I don’t see how he gets away with it, I really don’t. Why is it taking so long to expose him and why does his still have so much support from the religious communities?

    I think Warren is doing a heck of a job and deserves a standing O!

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  • Teresa

    I think Warren is doing a heck of a job and deserves a standing O!

    StraightGrandmother (SG), thumbs-up on this comment of yours.

    SG said: People came from far away, and all these parents were told that it is THEIR fault their child is gay. There is no other explanation than that. Can you imagine the guilt those parents must feel for the rest of their lives?

    SG, I attended several Encourage Meetings, the Catholic Group for the family (usually mothers and fathers) of gays. Courage and Encourage are focused on chastity, but are very into the NARTH approach. I do have to admit, SG, it was heartbreaking for me to listen to these parents commiserate on what they think was their ‘fault’ for their children being gay. I tried several times to tell them that, perhaps, what they thought about the etiology of homosexuality may not be true. I spoke of several studies, etc.; but, they clung to this Nicolosi theory denying any other possibility.

    It is truly sad, SG; but, these people are adults, and they’re entitled to their choice. However, I couldn’t attend these meetings any longer. They were far too dispiriting , and I’m not even a parent.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Theresa, That does sound dispiriting. I have my pet theory on why Nicolosi so adamantly clings to this theory of, ‘It’s the parents fault” I think he does it because a guilty feeling parent will pay, and pay, and pay. They feel so guilty for making their child gay that they will pay Nicolosi any amount he asks for to help their child. It’s all about cha-ching cha-ching.

  • Teresa

    SG, I have a pet peeve surrounding Nicolosi and the continuing efforts to use ‘attachment’ problems as THE cause of homosexuality. The failure to see properly that many homosexuals have NOT had attachment difficulties with either parent is never spoken about, properly. There’s the continual ‘search’ for disruption somewhere … we’ll make one up, if we have to. Sexual abuse is another add-on to this theory, but the fact that a good many homosexuals have not been sexually abused is again dismissed.

    And, the elephant in the room, that tens of millions of person, maybe hundreds of millions of persons, have had very disruptive, abusive ‘attachment’ issues with plenty of sexual abuse from parents, and these persons end up str8 … well, we’ll never, ever mention that.

    I’m afraid that Nicolosi, et. al., wouldn’t know what to do if they gave up their ‘pet theory’. It appears many scientists fall into this same trap … which sorta up-ends their credibility as scientists … men and women who should pursue answers with as little bias as possible, and when faced with the facts, acknowledge their error and embrace the truth … even when it’s ego deflating.

  • Mary

    LOL!!!! We’re all screwed up and it’s our parent’s fault.

    Seriously?! Does anyone take responsibility for who they are anymore?

  • Teresa

    Mary said: Seriously?! Does anyone take responsibility for who they are anymore?

    Some of us do take responsibility, Mary, that’s why it’s so upsetting to watch these parents get ‘blamed’ for something they didn’t cause.

    These parents are ‘persons with unwanted same sex attracted children’. They deal with much the same guilt, shame, fear, loneliness, isolation that lots of gays deal with. Why they continue to pursue this route is probably the same reason that some gays choose the route … the carrot of “we’ve got the answer” … and, “we’ll make your child str8″.

    I can perfectly well understand that no parent really wants a gay child. How do they socially cope with the ‘news’? What will others think? How could this have happened to us? What did we do wrong? If we pray enough, maybe it will all go away. Maybe, our son or daughter really isn’t gay … maybe, maybe … and, finally, there’s these therapists who say they’ve made lots of homosexuals ‘change’.

    What parent wouldn’t opt for that choice? What parent wouldn’t swallow the bitter pill of being the ‘bad guy’ for their child’s homosexuality … if, in the end, their child will be str8?

    Mary, these parents are taking ‘responsibility’ to a fault. The news that their child can be str8, blinds them to any other outside input. But, in the final analysis who can blame them. What would we all do if we had a gay child? Not until we come face-to-face with that fact, not until it becomes personal to us, can we really say what we’d do … until then, it’s mere speculation.

    The fault lies with those that misrepresent outcomes, promote theories that have little basis in reality, and mislead many persons in the bargain. I suspect these people also have good intentions … the idea of having the ‘silver bullet’ cure for homosexuality is quite alluring. Frankly, if it were true, I’d probably line up with quite a few others … parents and gays.

    If we’re blinded to facts, which all of us are at one time or another, the school of hard knocks will certainly wake us up. It’s unfortunate, that on some things, we have to learn the hard way.

  • Craig

    It’s not unreasonable to make a different interpretation than the author especially in these cases since the pro-gay side is incapable of manifesting anything not towing the party line.

  • William

    @ Craig

    It’s not unreasonable to make a different interpretation than the author…

    A different interpretation of what? Of what the author has experienced in her professional work? And a different interpretation based on what?

    … especially in these cases…

    In what cases?

    … since the pro-gay side is incapable of manifesting anything not towing the party line.

    Meaning what precisely? And whatever it means, how does it affect the author’s competence to assess the implications of what she has learnt in her work as a psychotherapist?

  • StraightGrandmother

    Teresa-

    Some of us do take responsibility, Mary, that’s why it’s so upsetting to watch these parents get ‘blamed’ for something they didn’t cause.

    These parents are ‘persons with unwanted same sex attracted children’. They deal with much the same guilt, shame, fear, loneliness, isolation that lots of gays deal with. Why they continue to pursue this route is probably the same reason that some gays choose the route … the carrot of “we’ve got the answer” … and, “we’ll make your child str8?.

    StraightGrandmother- Teresa I have read many many of your comments for the last few months and i have to say that the comment that begins with the above, is right up there with one of your BEST ones. I think you really nailed it.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Off Topic but curious. I wonder why Warren has not done an article about the American Psychological Associations board vote of 157-0 to endorse Gender Neutral Marriage? It is pretty big news in his “industry” and I though I would see him write about it.

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  • Maazi NCO

    I will start by saying that I am totally indifferent to ex-gay gigs or “reparative therapy”. I only wanted to say that even if Diana Fosha agreed with Nicolosi’s work, it would be professional suicide for her to say so publicly. She will never recover from the gigantic uproar such anti-gay comments will generate.

    Of course, I am not suggesting that her statements to Doc. Throckmorton are not genuine, but the truth is that even if she agreed with Nicolosi she would probably be wise not to take it to the public domain, especially to an interviewer who clearly supports gayism.

    If I were a psychiatrist in the United States who held views that gayism was a psychopathology, there is a strong likelihood that I will strive to keep my views strictly to myself to protect my professional career and social standing in the American society

  • StraightGrandmother

    Maazi NCO-

    If I were a psychiatrist in the United States who held views that gayism was a psychopathology, there is a strong likelihood that I will strive to keep my views strictly to myself to protect my professional career and social standing in the American society

    Your social standing??? LOL! Look when the Mayor of New York City and the Governor of the State of New York, and the Governor of California (our 2 biggest states) not just endorse, but actively campaign to end the DISCRIMINATORY Laws against gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender citizens you can see that the MAJORITY opinion in the United States of America is FOR Equal Civil Rights for gay, lesbian, bi-sexual and transgender United States Citizens. And MAZZI if you kept your views private it would ONLY be to stop from being laughed at because YOU are in the official minority now. You have neither science nor public opinion on your side, so you would “hide” your views because your views are NOT NORMAL, no longer publicly acceptable EXACTLY like the Americans of old who insisted that AFRICANS were inferior and should be slaves to the white people, those white people who thought that were no longer publicly acceptable. You are one of those guys that centuries ago would STILL be claiming the World Is Flat. Science and the population has progressed, YOU are stuck in a rut of BIGOTRY. Sorry Mazzi I tells ‘em likes I sees em.

    And you NEVER did answer me if you found these two women who got married in New York and Abomination. Yeah you walked away from that question, I guess not enough of a man to answer it. Mazzi are these two women an ABOMONATION or NOT??? Come on, answer the question.

    http://www.boxturtlebulletin.com/btb/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/PhyllisSiegel76ConnieKopelov84-200×156.png

    ABOMONATION?

    NOT ABOMONATION?

    Say what you see to be the truth Mazzi.

  • David Blakeslee

    Warren,

    This is another in a long line of interviews which adds important perspective to the interpretation of NARTH theories and assertions.

    For the record, will you please link your conversations with Bailey, Spitzer and several others so that readers can better understand the entire context?

    Nicolosi “traffics” in a theoretical orientation? Zing! Uh…how about “pedals,” or “markets?” Seems to be a more accurate word, unless you are trying to conjure Joe Nicolosi as John Travolta in Quentin Tarantinos “Pulp Fiction.”

    Actually, that is kinda cool.

  • William

    @ Maazi NCO

    I only wanted to say that even if Diana Fosha agreed with Nicolosi’s work, it would be professional suicide for her to say so publicly.

    You, I or anyone else could make exactly the same purely speculative comment about any professional person whose findings we didn’t happen to like.

    Of course, I am not suggesting that her statements to Doc. Throckmorton are not genuine…

    In which case your comment was an entirely pointless one to make in the first place.

  • Mary

    Teresa,

    All good points.

  • Ann

    Not until we come face-to-face with that fact, not until it becomes personal to us, can we really say what we’d do … until then, it’s mere speculation.

    Teresa,

    I agree with Mary – you made some very good points and it is glaring that others seem to dismiss their importance. Much has been said about mixed orientation marriages and coupled same gender individuals, as well as ex-gays. What seems to be ignored is the families/parents that have their lives turned upside down when confronted with this news. I have heard them – their pain is unbearable. What makes it worse is the scorn they receive from others who think they should just get over it or, worse, the indifference they face from those who do not know how to console them or who just don’t care. The fact that their child, whether they are a child, young adult, or adult tells them they are experiencing these feelings is rarely an issue – it is the fact that most of them say it is something they have fought against and yet cannot control. They say it is something they do not want and yet have to accept as who they are and that this is permanent. Often they say this through tears of anguish. Should a parent say “oh, that is just great – I completely support you in having these feelings that you do not want”? By the time a child concludes they must be gay without any recourse for it, they are determined to fight for it so they never have to feel vulnerable or secretive or shame, which was unbearable, again. Often severe personality changes occur against parents or other family members who are still questioning (and have the right to) what and how this happened to their family member – and it sends them reeling into a downward spiral. Parents and family members become desparate to fight for their loved one. Who wouldn’t in any other situation? Many times these efforts are met with individuals who offer resources that are ethical and, yet too often, are met with others who present quick remedies without any real medical or psychological basis. Reminds me a little of the foster care system – there is obviously a huge problem that everyone seems to be ignoring. If anyone does pay attention and wants to help, sometimes they are ethical, credentialed individuals and have a true understanding or they are unethical, uncredentialed, and have ulterior motives.

    I would also like to add that while there is distress more often than not in telling family members, there are instances where there is complete acceptance. I think this might be because the individual is comfortable with how he/she feels and presents it accordingly – this would, I think , bring a more positive response from a family than if their loved one is saying the opposite.

    Anyway, thanks Teresa for bringing this awareness.

  • Bose in St. Peter

    Parental attachment disruptions?

    Please, Warren… spell out the words which made it clear that “Toscano [...] referred to the belief that attachment disruptions with the same-sex parent contribute to homosexual attractions”

    –Bose

  • Jayhuck

    Ann,

    What seems to be ignored is the families/parents that have their lives turned upside down when confronted with this news. I have heard them – their pain is unbearable. What makes it worse is the scorn they receive from others who think they should just get over it or, worse, the indifference they face from those who do not know how to console them or who just don’t care.

    This sounds like some gay parents I know. I think more resources need to be made available for the increasingly growing number of gay households. I read recently that gay households grew (thanks to a new census that made it easier to include them) by almost 49%

  • Ann

    Jayhuck,

    I am referring to parents and other family members who’s teenage or adult children tell them they are gay – not parents who tell their children they are gay.

  • http://beyondexgay.com Dr. Jallen Rix

    I think that it needs to be pointed out that Toscano, a colleague, in no way believes that any of this pseudo psychology and so-called “loving” religion worked for him or for the vast majority of the people who turn to these groups for help. In fact, if you want to read more of how devastating these mis-lead groups can be, read many other people’s stories at beyondexgay.com Over and over again, NARTH, Nicolosi, and reparative therapy gets disproven and yet, because of bad journalism, it seems to take on a life of it’s own. Our society’s heterosexual bias still keeps us thinking “Oh, maybe they can just change and the problem will go away.”

    • http://wthrockmorton.com Warren

      In my post, I say that Peterson referred to the theory, but I didn’t say he agreed with it. If you listen to the segment on NPR, this is quite clear.

      I will make it more clear in the post as well.

  • Jayhuck

    Ann,

    My apologies. I was actually talking about gay households/Same-sex parents. Gay couples who are raising children. That sort of thing :)

  • http://www.comingout4christians.net Dave

    So … what do we think the deal is here with Nicolosi … is he being deliberately deceptive (which .. sadly enough .. seems to be quite common) or is he in confirmation bias?

  • Richard Willmer

    I find the first part of ‘Maazi NCO’s’ comment puzzling. I would have thought he would have approved of ‘reparative therapy’. Or perhaps ‘punishment’ excites him more than (so-called) ‘therapy’?

    His bit about ‘keeping quiet’ if he agreed with Nicolosi doesn’t really surprise me; it seems entirely consistent with his values system and modus operandi as presented on this blog.

  • Maazi NCO

    His bit about ‘keeping quiet’ if he agreed with Nicolosi doesn’t really surprise me

    Richard,

    Don’t play naive. Anyone who crosses the powerful euro-american gay lobby is merely hurling a grenade at his or her career. Anyone who wants to keep their tenured professorship, jobs or win the American beauty peagantry must say publicly that “gayism is great” and “gay marriage is the best thing in the world” or maintain ice-cold silence. Saying anything contrary to the received wisdom of the lobby is professional suicide and an inviting call to be stashed into the fringes of Western society. Even though, I do not expect him to admit it, Doc. Warren Throckmorton was smart to read the hand-writing on the wall and switch his allegiance to the pro-gay winning side of the US Cultural Civil War, which broke out in the year 1973 and is not ending anytime soon. After watching on satellite TV the epic “Battle of New York State” and the confetti-laden victory parade for the victorious Euro-American Gay Forces, I could not help, but try to understand why it is not such a bad thing for a career man or career woman to do a volte-face when professional survival and professional relevance is at stake

  • Maazi NCO

    it seems entirely consistent with his values system and modus operandi as presented on this blog.

    Richard,

    My modus operandi on this blog is to simply put forward the representative opinion of the vast majority of the Ugandan people. I have no intention of deviating from that path. I shall make no apologies for my rejection of your request for full disclosure since I consider it unnecessary and irrelevant to this discourse. The relevant message to take away from my commentaries is that the Ugandan people are not prepared to welcome shock troops from the Euro-American Gay Lobby and are determined to use legislation to restrict the activities of their domestic cannon-fodders in Kampala.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’ has indeed repeated his ‘message’ many times. Meanwhile, others prefer to engage in a more balanced and objective exploration of influences on human sexuality, adjusting their views if they see fit.

    It is surely somewhat disappointing that he views his fellow citizens as ‘cannon fodder’; maybe this is his idea of ‘African values’? In my experience, most of my African friends see things rather differently.

  • Richard Willmer

    Oh, and ‘Maazi NCO’s’ ongoing insistence on churning out anti-gay rhetoric from behind a pseudonym is emblematic of his/her modus operandi. Given that he/she claims that he/she is a citizen of a country where ‘the vast majority’ agrees with his/her viewpoint, the use of a pseudonym in surely unnecessary and could be judged to smack of cowardice.

    And on the subject of foreign ‘shock troops’, here’s one: http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=9110&MediaType=1&Category=26

  • Richard Willmer

    Apologies for going ‘off topic’ in open of my little spats with our Ugandan friend (assuming that ‘Maazi NCO’ is, as he/she claims, Ugandan).

    On this whole issue of ‘broken attachments’: common sense tells us that ‘broken attachments’ are probably far more common than genuine same-sex orientation, and, conversely, there are many lesbians and gay men who have not experienced such ‘broken attachments’. Has there been a comprehensive statistical analysis that shows any statistical significance regarding a link between same-sex attraction and ‘broken attachments’? (I rather suspect not, if I’m honest.)

    As some of you may be aware, there has been rioting in London these last few days, and I can’t resist pointing out that it appears that considerable numbers of heterosexuals have been looting and damaging property! Perhaps we should worry less about the alleged effect of ‘broken attachments’ on sexual orientation and instead consider how family breakdown (and in particular absent [heterosexual, one assumes] fathers) might have contributed to what Londoners have seen happening this week.

  • Richard Willmer

    (Just to clarify my reference above to ‘family breakdown’: it would, in my view, be quite wrong to lay the responsibility for what has been happening at the door of people whose marriages have ‘not worked out’ and/or of fathers who are not living at the homes of their offspring. Many fathers who are not residing at the homes of their children do make great efforts to discharge their responsibilities as parents as best they may under the circumstances, and continue to show love and care for their children. It would be unfair to make crass generalizations about ‘absent fathers’, just as it is unfair to make crass generalizations on whatever grounds about anybody else.)

  • William

    So, Maazi NCO, you have resorted in desperation to gratuitously attacking the professional integrity of those whose findings don’t suit your malignant agenda. Dr Throckmorton comes across as a thoroughly honest man who is prepared to follow truth wherever it may lead him. I very seldom quote the Bible at other people, but I shall do so on this occasion. “Go, and do thou likewise.” (Luke 10:37)

  • Maazi NCO

    Throckmorton comes across as a thoroughly honest man who is prepared to follow truth

    Dear William,

    The “truth”? I doubt you even understand the meaning of that word. By the way, who appointed you spokesman for Doc Warren Throckmorton? . Why not let Doc. Warren respond to my comments if he deems it necessary rather than deploy your gay propagandist skills in his unsolicited defence?

    So, Maazi NCO, you have resorted in desperation to gratuitously attacking the professional integrity of those whose findings don’t suit your malignant agenda

    I have no agenda neither am I desperate. In fact, I am calmly working hard with colleagues to block and roll back the “Gay Agenda For Africa” which the euro-american gay lobby have programmed for Uganda and indeed all other African nations. While we are alive and in good positions, it remains our job to prevent foreign gay propagandists from gaining any foothold in our country. Stop fantasizing about the occurance of those New York-style victory parades in Kampala or elsewhere in Uganda.

  • Maazi NCO

    Given that he/she claims that he/she is a citizen of a country where ‘the vast majority’ agrees with his/her viewpoint, the use of a pseudonym in surely unnecessary and could be judged to smack of cowardice.

    Sorry, my friend, but my name is not going to be circulated to professional gay propagandist email spammers. I prefer to work smoothly and calmly. Many people inside Uganda know my full identity very well. It is not a secret at all.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’ gives his stock response. Anyone who disagrees with him/her is, in his/her view, a ‘Euro-American gay lobbyist’.

    I suspect that I speak for many of us when I say that we are getting pretty fed up of hearing the same old trash over and over again. ‘Maazi NCO’ did say he/she was considering leaving this blog. Since he/she clearly neither has anything new to say nor wishes to present any kind of objective analysis to back his/her prejudices and crass generalizations, he/she should, in my opinion, do so. Furthermore, it is profoundly distasteful that anyone should churn out anti-gay (or, indeed, anti-anyone-else) rhetoric from behind a pseudonym; such is an abuse of any truthful concept of ‘freedom of speech’.

  • Richard Willmer

    Whoops! Should have said ‘his/her’ in the first sentence.

  • Maazi NCO

    it is profoundly distasteful that anyone should churn out anti-gay (or, indeed, anti-anyone-else) rhetoric from behind a pseudonym; such is an abuse of any truthful concept of ‘freedom of speech’.

    Your phobia for pseudoynms is your problem not mine. I am sure Her Majesty’s FCO will still pay you for the “intelligence information” you are gathering regardless of your frustrating inability to catch my full name. Why not go back to securing your property from rampaging arsonist vandal gangs of young British children and let Uganda deal with its own problems? :D

  • Richard Willmer

    Hahaha!

    1. I am not doing what I’m doing for ‘payment’ (of any kind)! Might ‘Maazi NCO’ be judging me by his/her own standards?

    2. Personally, I couldn’t give tuppence for who ‘Maazi NCO’ might be (and it probably wouldn’t be that difficult for me to find, though I don’t intend to bother to try). His/her utterances are not the product of any personal reflection or conviction, they are simply a ‘propaganda position’, and, as such, are boring and derivative. My point about pseudonyms is that those who peddle silly rhetoric (and, from time to time, make false accusations) should at least have the decency of being truthful about who they are.

  • Richard Willmer

    Maazi :

    Perhaps my comment above was a little unfair to you (although it was truthful in other respects). That said, you do seem to have adopted a ‘stock position’ that ignores many of the realities of life as it actually is, and (I am absolutely convinced) that will not, for a host of reasons, serve the best interests of your country. And that’s really all I can say … take it or leave it!

  • Maazi NCO

    Hahaha!

    Laughing is good and medicinal. Perhaps, you need it to reduce the stress of witnessing rampaging gangs of young children burning major British cities. One wonders where parenting has gone in the United Kingdom. But then what do you expect from a western nation where the breakdown of the normal family system is celebrated as progress by liberal hedonists.

    Personally, I couldn’t give tuppence for who ‘Maazi NCO’ might be (and it probably wouldn’t be that difficult for me to find, though I don’t intend to bother to try)

    On the contrary, you are quite desperate to find out my real name. Unfortunately, I am not going give it to you to circulate to your colleagues who specialize in gay propagandist email spamming.

    My point about pseudonyms is that those who peddle silly rhetoric, blah,blah, blah…

    Your pseudonym-phobia is your problem not mine.

    ….should at least have the decency of being truthful about who they are.

    You wouldn’t even recognize “decency” if it smacked you on the face. The only truthful thing you need to know from me is that we are working hard here in Uganda to ensure that you and your western pals never come here for Thailand-style sex tourism.

  • Maazi NCO

    Perhaps my comment above was a little unfair to you (although it was truthful in other respects). That said, you do seem to have adopted a ‘stock position’ that ignores many of the realities of life as it actually is, and (I am absolutely convinced) that will not, for a host of reasons, serve the best interests of your country. And that’s really all I can say … take it or leave it!

    Your beloved London is on fire and all you can think of is Uganda. Are you okay?

  • William

    Maazi NCO,

    I was not writing in any sense as a spokesman for Dr Throckmorton, nor did I present myself as such. I simply observed that he comes across as a thoroughly honest man who is prepared to follow truth wherever it may lead him. I am perfectly entitled to make that observation – the fact that it was unsolicited is neither here not there – and if you disagree with it, then fine, you disagree. I certainly won’t lose any sleep on that account.

    I have no agenda neither am I desperate.

    Both the above statements are palpably untrue. Your agenda is as clear as day, namely to prevent gays in your country from leading a normal life and from being treated as decently as anyone else. And if you were not desperate, you would hardly need to respond to findings that you don’t happen to like by questioning someone’s professional integrity on the basis of no evidence whatever. Nor would you need to resort to vituperation.

  • Maazi NCO

    Your agenda is as clear as day, namely to prevent gays in your country from leading a normal life and from being treated as decently as anyone else

    Okay, if you insist then let me state as follows–

    Our agenda is to roll back the imperialist “Gay Agenda For Africa” being peddled by Western governments and The United Nations—- the weak international organization which these arrogant governments politically dominate , control and manipulate.

  • Richard Willmer

    William

    I’m afraid that ‘vituperation’ is the only way that ‘Maazi NCO’ seems to know.

    By the way, I can assure him/her that I’m fine. Of course, there are social problems in the UK (I would never deny that), but it may just be the case that there are such problems in Uganda as well, many of which, I suspect, derive at least in part from dysfunctional family relationships.

    As for ‘Maazi NCO’s’ silly bit of fluff about my alleged desire to go to Uganda for ‘sex tourism’ … well, that’s the kind of rhetorical nonsense we’ve come to expect from him/her! I may be visiting UG in the not-to-distant future; sexual activity (with persons of either sex) will not be on the agenda!

    As for your assessment of Warren: I entirely agree with you – and would add, for good measure, that I do so despite the fact that Warren and I do not agree on absolutely everything.

  • Richard Willmer

    Oh dear! Mr./Ms. ‘Maazi NCO’ seems to be rather angry. Maybe my comments were a little too ‘close to the bone’, and not unfair at all!

  • Maazi NCO

    by questioning someone’s professional integrity on the basis of no evidence whatever.

    I doubt Doc Warren Throckmorton sees my comment as an attack on his “professional integrity”. I have read your windy comments and still see no real justification for your unsolicited defence of Doc Warren. Perhaps, you should concentrate on defending your own “integrity” and let other people defend theirs if they feel it is necessary. :-)

    And if you were not desperate, you would hardly need to respond to findings that you don’t happen to like by questioning someone’s professional integrity on the basis of no evidence whatever.

    In Uganda, the only desperate ones are the domestic puppets calling on their euro-american puppeteers inside Western Embassies to interfere in the internal affairs of the Ugandan people. On our side, we are calmingly going about our business.

  • Maazi NCO

    I may be visiting UG in the not-to-distant future; sexual activity (with persons of either sex) will not be on the agenda!

    The Ugandan people are warm and welcoming. Foreigners who have been to our nation know this very well. However, I suggest that you read your own country’s travel advisory on the customs and traditions of the Ugandan people. Any attempt by you or any foreigner to engage in any illegal activity (including gayism) will result in an arrest and possible prosecution.

  • Richard Willmer

    And by the same token, if ‘Maazi NCO’ were to come to the UK and engage in hate speech, he/she could find him/herself on the wrong side of the law. Expressing support for the likes of David Bahati’s proposed programme of slaughter is almost a criminal offence here.

    He/she would, however, be perfectly entitled to express his/her views on same-sex relationships as long as he/she did so in a manner that was clearly not likely to incite hatred.

    Incidentally, while things may be quiet in Uganda just now, ‘Maazi NCO’ might be well advised not ‘to speak to soon’ (although I very much hope that the police handling of the forthcoming protests is peaceful and proportionate): http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1216590/-/bkgmn0z/-/index.html

  • Maazi NCO

    Expressing support for the likes of David Bahati’s proposed programme of slaughter is almost a criminal offence here.

    I am a great believer in the dictum—When in Rome, behave like the Romans. In the UK, I shall respect the local veneration of gayism by keeping my views to myself. In return, governments, reporters and tourists of Western nations should respect our own culture and traditions and keep their love of gayism to themselves and not bother us with it. Touche.

  • Richard Willmer

    POINT OF CORRECTION:

    My first paragraph above should have read thus:

    “And by the same token, if ‘Maazi NCO’ were to come to the UK and engage in public hate speech, he/she could find him/herself on the wrong side of the law. Publically expressing support for the likes of David Bahati’s proposed programme of slaughter is almost certainly a criminal offence here. He/she can say what he pleases with ‘consenting persons in private’.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’ is missing a very important point with regard to what commentators like myself on this blog are saying. We are not lambasting the behaviour of the likes of Bahati because he disagrees with us on the matter of ‘homosexuality’ (although he does, to varying degrees and in various ways); we do so in order to challenge his hateful lies and genocidal proposals. Western governments are not proposing to cut aid because there is no ‘gay marriage’ or no gay pride marches in Uganda (if this were so, aid would probably have been cut long ago); rather they propose to do so in response to possible vicious and/or murderous repression of Ugandans.

  • Richard Willmer

    I should have said ‘in the event of’ rather than ‘in response to possible’ in the penultimate (and last) line(s) above. The hope is surely that such action will not be deemed necessary.

  • William

    Maazi NCO,

    Thank you for your reply to me. As it amply confirms the assessment which I had already tentatively formed of your character and mindset, it would be a waste of time to prolong the discussion, so I shall not do so.

  • Richard Willmer

    William

    I think that, in a sense, ‘Maazi NCO’ has been ‘playing a part’, pumping out a kind of ‘party line’ (the almost complete lack of variation in his* dialectic/rhetoric seems to point to this – I think that people who are speaking from personal conviction usually recapitulate things, at least up to a point).

    * ‘Maazi’ has in the past told us that he is male, by the way.

  • Maazi NCO

    Thank you for your reply to me. As it amply confirms the assessment which I had already tentatively formed of your character and mindset…

    I am certainly not of the character and mindset of the current Ghanaian President who does not have the BALLS to respond to the Ghanaian peoples’ demand that he acts against gayism. Neither am I of the character of Raila Odinga who is happy with his role as chief lickspittle for Europe and America. Uganda is blessed with fearless people and together we are working to codify our objections to Western decadence.

    it would be a waste of time to prolong the discussion, so I shall not do so.

    I completely agree. No need to continue inundating me with gay propaganda

  • Richard Willmer

    I don’t think William was making any propaganda (unlike others one might mention); he was merely (1) questioning ‘Maazi NCO’s’ criticism of Warren’s analysis and (2) offering an appraisal of ‘Maazi NCO’s’ agenda and character, based largely on ‘Maazi NCO’s’ own contributions to this thread.

  • http://www.christinelister.com Christine

    FOSHA: I have not read Nicolosi’s work, so I would not presume to be definitive, but based on what I know from the popular media about such methods (whether this applies to his or not, I do not know) leads me to strongly oppose such efforts– and view them as misguided at best, and dangerous at worst.

    Is anyone else surprised by the fact that Fosha stated her opinion was based on what she knows from “the popular media”? Since when is the popular media a reliable source of information?

  • http://www.comingout4christians.net Dave

    Not really … the specific issue is that she does not see any connection between her work (AFT) and orientation change. She already has responded to Dr. Throckmorton’s key questions regarding oreintation change and any possible connection to AFT. Her main response is based on that .. not on ‘popular media’. She even admits that the popular media presentation may not match Nicolosi’s ..so .. I actually find her response to be honest and refreshing .. she admits to what she knows and what she does not know.

    Dave

  • http://wthrockmorton.com Warren

    Dave nailed it, I believe.

    Fosha was responding to specific questions about attachment and sexual orientation. She had not heard of Nicolosi before but she was able to comment in an expert manner about attachment disruptions and their effects.

  • Ken

    Teresa# ~ Aug 5, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    “I guess before I jump to conclusions, based on my own bias, can someone clear this up for me, because I’m tempted to conclude either Nicolosi has not done his homework well enough, or he’s deliberately skewing information.”

    Nicolosi has done this kind of thing too often for it to be an honest mistake. Certainly, he is reading what he wants to out of these studies, but it isn’t an accident that he writes as though the authors agree with his conclusions about their research.

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