Put railways ahead of gays says Uganda's President

Really? Museveni to donor nations:

Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni on Friday urged international donors not to let concerns for gay rights affect development aid, saying homosexuals also needed roads, power and trains.

“Before anyone gives me a lecture about homosexuals and their rights, first talk about railways,” Museveni told delegates at the end of a regional meeting in Kampala attended by five other African presidents.

“Homosexuals also need electricity, homosexuals also need roads, homosexuals also need railways,” Museveni said to applause.

Hard to use all of those modern conveniences if you are in jail, Yoweri. Although maybe Museveni is right. If the Bahati bill passes, gays will need electricity in jails, and roads and railways to take them there.

As ridiculous as Museveni’s rhetoric is, it does raise a challenge to those who want hang gays or herd them into Uganda’s prisons. Gays are citizens of Uganda as are non-gays. When Museveni says they need basic services, he is right, even as he is oblivious to the reasons why Western nations are threatening to target aid to specific projects. They know gays need those things and they want them to be able to use them freely without fear of death or jail.

  • David Blakeslee

    “Homosexuals also need electricity, homosexuals also need roads, homosexuals also need railways,” Museveni said to applause.

    He makes the argument that homosexuals deserve to be cared for like anyone else in a society.

  • Richard Willmer

    Then, David, he should press or the repeal of the current anti-gays laws (which are pretty fierce: life in prison for consensual sex).

    No, Warren’s right: this is rhetoric, borne perhaps of fear (the policy of reallocating aid way from politicians is one that those politicians do not like in the least).

  • Richard Willmer

    Mind you, Museveni would do well to actually follow his own advice and get rid of all unjust discrimination against LGBT Ugandans and focus on railways etc. instead. That way, Ugandans could enjoy ‘African value’ rather than dubious so-called ‘African values’ (as defined by a certain political opponent of the President who visits this blog … though we’ve not heard from him recently, possibly because some of his fellow oppositionists have been having a ‘spot of bother’ with the authorities – treason charges, speeding tickets, that sort of thing).

  • Richard Willmer

    Incidentally, the Daily Nation article actually represents key aspects of the Bahati Bill really quite accurately, though it omits mention of the attack on freedom of expression, and the possibility of executing people who say things like “we really shouldn’t be nasty to gays” once too often.

    Here is what the article says (it’s always good to be reminded of the naked barbarity of Bahati’s proposal … especially as the opposition politician I alluded to earlier often likes to claim that truthful representations of the Bill are ‘gay propaganda’):-

    [The Bill] brings in the death penalty for anyone caught engaging in homosexual acts for the second time as well as for gay sex where one partner is a minor or has HIV.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ David : It’s little wonder gays can get a bit depressed sometimes (see other thread)!

  • Maazi NCO

    As ridiculous as Museveni’s rhetoric is, it does raise a challenge to those who want hang gays or herd them into Uganda’s prisons.

    If you guys love gay sex practitioners so much then why not organize series of Delta Airlines Planes to come and evacuate them away from Uganda, Nigeria , Ghana, Cameroon, etc? We are willing to donate these anti-social/counter-cultural hedonistic personalities— free of charge— to your country .

    How many deviants does your country need? Ten, fifty, Three hundred? One thousand? The City of San Francisco in California will be very happy to increase “diversity” by boosting its population with sex deviants from our neck of the woods. Obama spending millions to create fake NGOs to spout gay propaganda in African countries will have almost ZERO effect on most Africans who will NEVER accept anal sex and related compulsive deviant sexual habits as a “human right”. On the contrary, the more the Western world pushes, the angrier Africans are. I have been monitoring Nigerian newspapers all week so I know what I am talking about. I am aware that Baby-faced British PM Dave-Boy Cameron helped convince the Nigerians to toughen their gay marriage bill and pass it in defiance. Following President John Atta-Mill’s blasting of Cameron’s gayism-driven blackmail, Ghanaian MPs are beginning to discuss prohibition of same-sex acts. Of course, Ugandan MPs are ready to act as consultants to other interested Africans if requested.

    Thanks to the incredible gay sex obssession of Obama and Cameron, many smart alecs from Africa will be claiming “gayism” as an excuse for greener pastures in the western world. Oh yes, brace yourselves for the upcoming peaceful African Invasion of the Northern Hemisphere.

  • Maazi NCO

    @ David : It’s little wonder gays can get a bit depressed sometimes (see other thread)!

    They can always move to UK or USA where their behavour is celebrated and deified as the eighth wonder of the world

  • Maazi NCO

    Wow, some of my posts managed to evade the pro-gay censoring instrument of Doc Warren? :D Anyways, I will wait for my main comment caught in the “censor’s snare” to be published before I comment further on the funny statements of our el-Presidente

  • Richard Willmer

    Very funny, ‘Maazi’.

    I think you’ll find there is still plenty of homophobia in ‘the west’, but were working on that …

    So, when you were here in the UK or in the US, you had lots of ‘gay celebrations’, did you?

  • anteros

    it took him long enough to understand what many concerned ugandans pointed out when bahati introduced his bill and parliament became preocuppied with anti-homosexuality in the face of rampant corruption, collapsing infrastructure, ailing health and education systems – a prudent parliament would have set better priorities and gone as far as decriminalizing homosexuality so as to optimize state resources… presidential candidate kizza besigye was smart and bold enough to make a statement about this during the last presidential campaigns. sadly, it looks like museveni thinks the problem of setting poor priorities lies with donors rather than the ugandan parliament – he should have aimed his canon at ugandan parliament rather than donors when making this point. so, he still doesn’t get it… probably because he doesn’t want to get it. i once heard a proverb that goes something like, “it’s easier to wake a sleeping person than to wake a person pretending to be asleep”… how i wish ugandans would wake up, even without donors attempting to wake them up.

  • Richard Willmer

    I think you’ve got a very good point there, Anteros.

    Ugandans I speak with here in London seem pretty disillusioned with all their politicians (‘Maazi NCO MP’ included – sorry, ‘Maazi’!) at the moment. In a way, this is quite worrying, as spreading disillusionment could create a kind of vacuum into which seriously nasty people might step. Ugandan politicians would indeed do well to stop their gay-bashing and other ‘playground activities’ and address real issues.

  • Maazi NCO

    While waiting for my main comment to be uncensored by Doc Warren, let me just say the following in response to Richard’s comment—-

    So, when you were here in the UK or in the US, you had lots of ‘gay celebrations’, did you?

    When I lived in UK and later on USA, I respected the laws and culture of those nations. Gayism is not only legal in both nations, it is deified as the 8th wonder of the world. I disagreed with such deification, but respected the right of UK and USA to allow half naked men wearing female make-up and waving silly colour-riotous rainbow flags to parade up and down the street to celebrate pride in mutually degrading themselves and humanity through abhorrent sexual acts.

    After my sojourn abroad, I returned home to Uganda to relax, only to discover that the same deviants I thought I left behind in UK and USA have inflitrated my homeland, sponsoring domestic puppets to spout gay propaganda and mobilizing their utterly useless governments that cannot even manage their economies properly to come rugby-tackle and bully Black African countries into accepting a behaviour described variously as evil, inhuman, abnormal, deviant, transparently insane and unAfrican.

  • Maazi NCO

    anteros—-Talking of legalizing gayism is a waste of time. In any case, I think Parliament is preparing a goodwill present for people who wish to lend themselves as ventriquolist dolls to the Euro-American Gay Propagandist Lobby

  • anteros

    i remember many ugandans, self included, suspecting bahati’s motives and timing as being aimed at distracting citizens while dodgy oil deals were signed behind the anti-homosexuality hysteria… years later, it seems that their suspicions may have been correct. that would explain the continued fanfair, consuming rhetoric (neo-colonialism, african values etc) and the bill’s mysteriously “undecidable” fate… jam the airwaves with anti-homosexuality junk to facilitate corruption, rigging, shady oil deals, poor governance… all while pointing fingers at evil donors, gobbling up their aid and having nothing to show for it besides fancy cars, big mansions and all the other trophies of misappropriated funds. notice how ugandan politicians are more vocal about aid than tax and are more answerable to donors than taxpayers… priorities, mr. president. priorities.

  • Maazi NCO

    Ugandans I speak with here in London seem pretty disillusioned with all their politicians (‘Maazi NCO MP’ included – sorry, ‘Maazi’!) at the moment.

    Its understandable. I am also disillusioned by Ugandan politics. I am not a “professional politician”. I just want to help my people. Supporting gayism is not the way to help them. While, I agree that gayism is not a priority for our nation’s developmental challenges. I believe we need to be far-sighted and see that if don’t tame gayism today, it will become a big problem tommorrow. So I continue to lend unflinching support to the Bahati Bill (subject to further amendments).

  • Maazi NCO

    Anteros—it seems your gay propagandist skills are better improved. I want to let you know that the Bahati Bill shall become law. Not even el-Presidente can stop this 9th parliament from taking action. It is only a matter of time. Once we have dealt with some more pressing national issues, then we shall return to combating gayism. Legalizing gayism is just wishful thinking….

  • Richard Willmer

    So does that mean you are an “unprofessional politician”, ‘Maazi’?

  • Maazi NCO

    So does that mean you are an “unprofessional politician”, ‘Maazi’?

    No Einstein !!! It means I am not a career politician. Understand?

  • Richard Willmer

    I understand … you’ve done other things as well, haven’t you?

  • Maazi NCO

    i remember many ugandans, self included, suspecting bahati’s motives and timing as being aimed at distracting citizens while dodgy oil deals were signed behind the anti-homosexuality hysteria

    The above block quote is typical Gay Propaganda. The only reason why gayism is yet to be tackled in parliament is because of pressing national issues. Once parliament is done with these issues, MPs will return to debating the bill to combat the growing gay sex militancy of domestic puppets of foreign lobbyists. Make no mistakes about it, parliament shall eventually act against gay propaganda, it does not matter what Obama or his office secretary, Hillary Clinton says.

  • Maazi NCO

    I understand … you’ve done other things as well, haven’t you?

    You should wait for Doc Warren to uncensor two of my previous posts on the subject of my sojourn in UK and USA

  • Richard Willmer

    Anything that ‘Maazi’ doesn’t like is ‘typical Gay Propaganda’.

    Interesting to see how ‘Maazi’ himself uses typical Goebbels-like phrases when he tries make his points. We continually have gems such as ‘gay sex militancy‘ and ‘domestic puppets of foreign lobbyists‘. If we didn’t know him better, we might even think he trying to convince himself!

    (‘Maazi’ won’t like this comment at all; he is understandably very sensitive to allusion to Nazism.)

  • Richard Willmer

    Maybe I don’t need to wait … but wait I will.

  • anteros

    dude, stop kidding yourself… in fact, stop pretending to be kidding yourself – the game you bahati lovers have been playing has been drawn out long enough for everyone to know what it’s really all about. it’s pretty obvious after years of constant huffing and puffing and not passing the bill that the bill was introduced for the dubious purposes it has served thus far… and that it will never be passed. and you know, just as well as every other ugandan knows, that homosexuality will be decriminalized in uganda… eventually. you know it, and you can quit pretending otherwise… spare yourself.

  • Maazi NCO

    dude, stop kidding yourself… in fact, stop pretending to be kidding yourself – the game you bahati lovers have been playing has been drawn out long enough for everyone to know what it’s really all about. it’s pretty obvious after years of constant huffing and puffing and not passing the bill that the bill was introduced for the dubious purposes it has served thus far… and that it will never be passed. and you know, just as well as every other ugandan knows, that homosexuality will be decriminalized in uganda… eventually. you know it, and you can quit pretending otherwise… spare yourself.

    Hahahahahaha… Whatever floats your boat :D

  • Richard Willmer

    Bashing the vulnerable (or at least trying to) is what floats ‘Maazi’s’ boat.

    What a little charmer!

  • Maazi NCO

    Bashing the vulnerable (or at least trying to) is what floats ‘Maazi’s’ boat.

    What floats my boat is helping my people and I think Parliament is currently doing a good job holding the executive branch of the Ugandan State to account for the crude oil deals. As for gayism, forget about that…. Parliament will not back down. Gayism is dead in the water once we are ready again to resume debate on the Bahati Bill. Like I said earlier, this is the 9th Parliament (not the 8th Parliament)

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Helping’ people who agree with you, more like!

    But crude gay-bashing won’t help anyone, as events will probably show …

  • Maazi NCO

    (‘Maazi’ won’t like this comment at all; he is understandably very sensitive to allusion to Nazism.)

    Look my friend, the sodomy-loving Ernst Rohm and cross-dressing Herman Goering were top Nazis officals who lived and died in Europe. It has nothing to do with our people in Africa. But I do understand the gay propagandist value of accusing africans of being nazis for opposing two men tearing apart each other’s backside with their manhoods.

  • Richard Willmer

    As for the political shenanigans over ‘oil deals’: looks like a complete shambles from what I can see. (I notice that the focus seems to have switched to Hilary Onek’s qualifications … a tacit admission that the ‘oily allegations’ aren’t sticking perhaps? It’s rather reminiscent of Kenneth Starr’s ‘switch’ to Lewinsky after Whitewater failed to deliver the goods. Like I said – a shambles.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Western nations are threatening to target aid to specific projects. They know gays need those things and they want them to be able to use them freely without fear of death or jail.

    Like the Nigerians have been saying all week (via their numerous papers) since the passage of their anti-gay bill— “The West should go to hell with their aid !!!!

  • Richard Willmer

    Just spotted more humbug from ‘Maazi’.

    Everyone knows that, Roehm (who was dispatched by Hitler in 1934) and Goering (who was married … he was indeed somewhat portly and like wearing fancy uniforms, like Idi Amin for example) notwithstanding, that gays were persecuted and murdered in considerable numbers by the Nazi regime … a pattern that Bahati would like to replicate in his prospective ‘third reich’.

  • anteros

    decriminalization has been catalysed by bahati and friends… they knew that that would be one of the consequences of introducing such a crazy bill… meaning, they don’t really care about the legal status of homosexuality in uganda but they just had to capitalize on the short-term selfish benefits of distracting citizens with anti-homosexuality rubbish before decriminalization happens, which they know is inevitable… their pockets will be bursting by then and they will be seeking asylum in zimbabwe where they can splurge out and live large off misappropriated taxes and donor aid… it’s all inevitable, so they sought whatever means possible to facilitate emergency looting before the window of opportunity shuts – including bahati’s bogus bill. decriminalization is coming, as soon as all the selfish distracting thugs have been sent packing… and there’s sweetbuggerall you or any of your gay hating greedy termites can do about it.

  • Richard Willmer

    I’m not quite so optimistic, Anteros.

    Bahati is still a serious threat; he is a rabid ideologue who actually believes that mass murder is a good thing for his country, and thinks he loves the people he wishes to slaughter. There are some ‘fellow travellers’; maybe ‘Maazi NCO’ is one of them. But things are still tense, and I for one am still very worried (which is one reason why I take every possible to expose ‘Maazi’s’ cant and hypocrisy … I’m pretty certain that other UG politicos read this blog).

    What is encouraging is that the disillusion I spoke of earlier may well be feeding the perceptive (generally correct, I’m sure) that this latest bout of gay-bashing is largely a case of cheap political opportunism on the part of politicians who are rightly nervous about their futures.

  • anteros

    actually, zimbabwe will be a very different place by then… i’m sure you heard their future president’s stance on decriminalization. so, maybe not zimbabwe… maybe saudi arabia… somewhere in late idi amin’s former neighborhood.

  • Richard Willmer

    I was myself wondering if Zimbabwe would particularly want the Bahati mob in a few years’ time.

  • anteros

    i hear you richard.

    one day, these posts will be re-visited… after the bahatis have had their fun and caused all the damage they can to ugandans (not limited to non-heterosexual ugandans)… decriminalization cannot and will not be prevented. stalled perhaps, but not prevented.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Anteros :

    It is most apt to remind us that Bahati’s ‘Slaughter Bill’ is not aimed at gays alone.

  • Maazi NCO

    Decriminalization ! Oooohhh decriminalization…ooooh decriminalize blah, blah, blah….

    Don’t worry anteros, we will pass a very nice bill that will help relax and sober you up a bit. Just be patient. The bill when passed will calm you down. Okay? :D

  • Richard Willmer

    As for general budget support: maybe ‘Maazi’ is right, and it would be better to get rid of it now. Its usefulness is arguable, and the Irish and Dutch seem to think that an immediate switch to ‘project support’ is appropriate. That said, many Ugandans are probably benefiting, directly or indirectly, from the fact that the Ugandan Government is still in receipt of general budget support from the UK, and I would oppose any hasty ‘switching’ just at the moment.

    ‘Maazi’, who just hates that ole Public Order Management Bill, may even himself be such a beneficiary.

  • Richard Willmer

    I’ve just seen ‘Maazi’s’ latest ‘erudite contribution’ and can almost visualize him rubbing his hands and dribbling as he relishes the prospect of repression … of others, of course – repression aimed at ‘Maazi’ is quite another matter!

  • Richard Willmer

    But the UK aid policy relates to all manifestations of repression, so ‘Maazi’ might need to consider if his ‘political calculations’ are best served by cuddling up to ‘teddy-bear Bahati’. Some teddy-bears bite!

  • Maazi NCO

    As for general budget support: maybe ‘Maazi’ is right, and it would be better to get rid of it now.

    Thats right. Uganda does not need “Money-For-Gayism” donor packages….

    Its usefulness is arguable, and the Irish …….seem to think that an immediate switch to ‘project support’ is appropriate.

    Are we talking of the same Ireland on the brink of bankruptcy or are we talking of a different Ireland on planet mars??

    ‘Maazi’, who just hates that ole Public Order Management Bill, may even himself be such a beneficiary

    Public Order Management Bill is dead on arrival since there is a measure of cross-party consensus opposing that bill. Gayism is just an abhorrent deviant behaviour and nothing more. When Bahati Bill comes up again, it will debated, hopefully there will be further amendments prior to its being passed into law.

  • David Blakeslee

    @ Richard Willmer,

    Did not mean to be unclear…in his anxiety over losing funding he was unwittingly making an argument that homosexuals are part of every community and deserve to be served by that community.

  • anteros

    well, pass it or don’t. as soon as you destructive bandits become regular folk or refugees, which, judging by the tales of self-destruction dominating current affairs, shouldn’t be too far off… we will have it trashed along with all your other unjust laws… with more ease than your boss had when removing presidential term limits from our constitution. easy. no need to worry about me being calm… you, on the other hand… well! i heard that taking deep breaths helps.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ David

    I now understand your point. Thank you.

    It is true that Museveni has ‘moderated’ his previously extremely anti-gay position and – since he is no fool – understands that the kind of repressive ‘witch hunt’ culture favoured by the likes of Bahati and ‘Maazi NCO’ is not in Uganda’s best interest for all sorts of reasons (and not just with regard to general budget support from EU, and other, countries). I suspect he wants the Bill to ‘go away’; it has harmed considerably Ugandan’s image here in Britain, for example.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ anteros

    There is a profound irony in ‘Maazi’s’ position: M7 is not his ‘boss’ (when it comes to ‘party politics’) and ‘Maazi’, always eager to defend his own ‘rights’, is dead against the Public Order Management Bill, for example. Dear little ‘Maazi’ – as well dissembling on this blog on a regular basis – is a hypocrite par excellence, and one who completely fails to understand just how dramatically he advertises his rank hypocrisy when he spews venom on people who wish him no harm at all, and even support his right peacefully to express, as he sees fit, his opposition to policies of the Ugandan Government. He’s a man for whose views I have nothing but contempt.

  • anteros

    given his consistency in being inaccurate or just straight up wrong, his views are worthless, really… besides serving as a prompt… isn’t that trolling?

  • Richard Willmer

    Well, I suppose Warren has made a judgement that it is worth keeping ‘Maazi’ in play. He has dropped useful hints in the past, and – in amongst all the usual guff – we got another this evening: a suggestion that the return of the Bill is not imminent (although we can’t simply take him at his word, of course, especially given his tendency to prefer opinions over facts – he is a politician after all!) … contrary to what was believed by many (including me) back in the summer.

  • Richard Willmer
  • Richard Willmer

    When I lived in UK and later on USA, I respected the laws and culture of those nations. Gayism is not only legal in both nations, it is deified as the 8th wonder of the world. I disagreed with such deification, but respected the right of UK and USA to allow half naked men wearing female make-up and waving silly colour-riotous rainbow flags to parade up and down the street to celebrate pride in mutually degrading themselves and humanity through abhorrent sexual acts.

    After my sojourn abroad, I returned home to Uganda to relax, only to discover that the same deviants I thought I left behind in UK and USA have inflitrated my homeland, sponsoring domestic puppets to spout gay propaganda and mobilizing their utterly useless governments that cannot even manage their economies properly to come rugby-tackle and bully Black African countries into accepting a behaviour described variously as evil, inhuman, abnormal, deviant, transparently insane and unAfrican.

    So screams ‘Maazi’ is the best hitlerite fashion.

    Of course, people like Frank Mugisha have no wish to harm ‘Maazi’, whereas one can almost see ‘Maazi’ dancing round a fire, waving a machete and shouting ‘Keel, Keel, Keel’.

  • Richard Willmer

    Of course, ‘traditional’ dance often involves being half-naked and wearing make-up. But that’s fine by me … :-)

  • F Young

    What the fanatics who support the kill-the-gays bill forget is that those who would be persecuted are not just gay, lesbian and bisexual Ugandans, but mainly those who are mistaken as gay, etc, Studies show that the majority of victims of homophobic bullying are not actually gay. Similarly, countless African children and adults have been persecuted as witches.

    Also victimized by the bill will be those who are falsely accused as a means of eliminating political or religious rivals (e.g. Pastor Robert Kayanja) or just making a quick buck through blackmail.

    It certainly is suspicious that Bahati ally Rev Ssempa has falsely accused a rival pastor of homosexuality. The bill could also be used against rival politicians, as happened in Malaysia (Anwar bin Ibrahim).

  • Lynn David

    As much as I have heard from Maazi here, if he does represent the “every-man” of Uganda, then there is no reason that the United States or Great Britian or any country who does love real human rights should support Uganda. Evidently the “every-man” of Uganda despises the western countries and is taking advantage of our aid while calling us names behind our backs. So, I think we should just forget about any aid to them – to all on Maazi’s list. Let them get their aid from the communist world – China should be happy to corrupt their Christian ways with their money.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Lynn

    ‘Maazi’ doesn’t represent the “every-man” of Uganda, of course. His obsessions and his dialectic are very much ‘of a kind’ (privileged, foreign-educated, pseudo-pan-African nationalist), aren’t they?

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    If you guys love gay sex practitioners so much then why not organize series of Delta Airlines Planes to come and evacuate them away from Uganda, Nigeria , Ghana, Cameroon, etc? We are willing to donate these anti-social/counter-cultural hedonistic personalities— free of charge— to your country .

    Yes, you ethnically cleansed the Indians, and the Jews, didn’t you?

    We’re already giving political asylum to gay Ugandans. And several churches very quietly smuggled out the Intersex orphans who this bill would condemn to death under one interpretion of section 26. Those that don’t get killed shortly after birth, or broken down into parts to make “traditional medicine”. You have a lot of that in Uganda, don’t you Maazi? Not just Intersex kids either.

    One problem though – there’s more Intersex, Trans and Gay people being born all the time. It’s like trying to ethnically cleanse all those who are left-handed.

  • JCF

    How much abuse by this violence-threatening bigot “Maazi NCO” is going to be published here, anyway?

    God bless and defend Your children that You made LGBT, in Uganda and EVERYWHERE!

  • Richard Willmer

    One is at this point forcibly of President Museveni’s reported statement that (and I quote) LGBT Ugandans “have lived well in Uganda for ages even before colonization“.

    Here this man’s undoubted intelligence and political skill is clearly seen, his failings (something we all have, of course) notwithstanding. Unlike ‘Maazi NCO’, he accepts that much of what ‘Maazi’ presents as ‘African values’ (which are neither particularly ‘African’ nor of any ‘value’) is but one of the legacies of the evil of colonialism.

    Taking this statement together with his ‘railways’ point demonstrates that, in his mind at least, the ‘penny may be beginning to drop’. So maybe my first comment about ‘rhetoric’ on M7′s part was a tad unjust.

    F. Young’s point is also very important, and I know people in Uganda who are ‘pestered’ on the basis of nothing more of unfounded suspicion and idle tittle-tattle.

    As for ‘flying out LGBT Ugandans’: well, I suppose aid money could be used for that if necessary. But I doubt Ugandan economists (or ministers) would welcome the sudden departure of an entire tranche of Ugandan taxpayers. Obviously, the contract for such an enterprise should not be awarded to one airline alone (does ‘Maazi’ own Delta shares, I wonder?) without proper competitive tendering; that would be most unfair.

    (@ ‘Maazi’ : If you’re going to advertise, it is ‘Delta Air Lines’, by the way!)

  • Richard Willmer

    However, M7′s statement referred to in my comment above does not square with the current colonial-era anti-gay laws …

  • anteros

    Maazi claims:

    “The only reason

    why gayism is yet to be tackled in

    parliament is because of pressing

    national issues. Once parliament is

    done with these issues…”

    yeah. sure. parliament will clear the ever growing backlog of stalled corruption investigations, address the economic crisis, fix our crumbling infrastructure, bring uninterrupted electricity supply to the entire country, patch up the health and education systems, handle the political crisis and much more… so that they can have enough time and taxpayers money left over to kick up a meaningless fuss over harmless non-heterosexual ugandans despite the direction the entire world is moving with regards to human rights and lgbti rights in particular… who cares if uganda becomes isolated as a result?

    pass it. you know you want to. the whole world tripple dares you. go on. do it and force ugandans to face the consequences, you’ll be forgiven. except, you’ll have to find a new way to distract citizens… and that’s the real problem, isn’t it? that’s just one reason why the bill won’t be passed. i mean, the lingering bill and the fuss surrounding it did give the big man the big stick he’s been asking for… to lash out at imaginary pseudo-enemies… something to make headlines about at a huge international conference while the country sinks deeper into crisis.

    pass it.

  • Richard Willmer

    I’m not sure that the ‘big man’ is quite as keen as he once may have been about this particular ‘big stick’. It is proving highly embarrassing for him, and I suspect that he would like it to ‘quietly go away’. (In the past, M7 has done things to which his western allies have ‘turned a blind eye’ – e.g. the last lot of tinkering with those colonial-era anti-gay laws a few years ago; now he’s finding that this time that’s not going to happen. There’s a ‘line in the sand’ and I think, very sensibly, he’d rather not cross it.)

  • anteros

    i agree Richard. my point is that passing or discarding the bill will destroy a profitable source of distraction… and so, especially because of “railways” and the leaning tower of national crises, the bill will be kept on standby to provide alternative national discourse for as long as possible… that was the intention of the shaddowy figures who wrote the bill and gave it to bahati to introduce with all its shocking clauses in a country which already criminalizes homosexuality… that’s the purpose of the bill. that’s why after years of incredible fuss, it has not been passed and it has not been discarded… it’s all about creating a bogus fuss to distract stakeholders so that attention can be periodically drawn away from the plundering and poor governance… notice how anti-homosexuality pops up whenever there’s a new series of scandals and crises?

  • Maazi NCO

    There is a profound irony in ‘Maazi’s’ position: M7 is not his ‘boss’ (when it comes to ‘party politics’) and ‘Maazi’, always eager to defend his own ‘rights’, is dead against the Public Order Management Bill, for example. Dear little ‘Maazi’ – as well dissembling on this blog on a regular basis – is a hypocrite par excellence,

    This is just false equivalence. Gayism is an anti-social, counter-cultural, deviant and insane behaviour and law is needed to keep it on leash. Comparing it with Public Order Bill is just plain stupid.

    pass it. you know you want to. the whole world tripple dares you. go on. do it and force ugandans to face the consequences

    The West is not the whole world. The sooner you learn it the better for you. Ugandan parliament will not be vetoed by the Mafioso Community of Western nations. It has nothing to do with world opinion. I believe the Nigerians received similar threats, but I don’t see them backing down. I am sure the 9th parliament of Uganda will live uo to expectations.

  • anteros

    …more accurately, anti-homosexuality seems to pop up when there’s some stuff going on in the background, while there’s new dirt in the making and a source of distraction is needed… who knows what’s being covered up this time. we might be lucky enough find out in a couple of weeks or months when the next series of crises and scandals come to the surface.

  • Maazi NCO

    POINT OF CORRECTION:

    ….will live uo to expectations.

    ….will live UP to expectations

  • anteros

    no really… it’s so stale that the whole world… from nepal to south africa, from brazil to india… is just itching to witness the passing of bahati’s bill. these are not threats… it’s about cutting the crap and moving forward. pass it already.

  • Maazi NCO

    How much abuse by this violence-threatening bigot “Maazi NCO” is going to be published here, anyway?

    Ha, ha, ha…my dear JCF, this is not United States where you can bully everybody into silence. This is Uganda—The Pearl of Africa !!!. Over here in Uganda, your beloved Euro-American Gay Propagandist Lobby isn’t that much. I can feel your frustration. You cannot simply intimidate people in Uganda who reject your gay propaganda in the way you could do same in the United States. We are working on a nice psychologically uplifting gift for you in our parliament. You aint never gonna come here on exotic deviant sex tourism. It will never happen. So swallow your pride and ego and celebrate your unacceptable lifestyle in San Francisco. Forget about Uganda being a gay sex colony. You cannot win here despite the delusional hopefulness of your local puppet-pal, MR. ANTEROS. Give it up and take comfort in the confetti released in New York celebrating yet another victory for insanity, hedonism and sexual deviance.

  • Maazi NCO

    no really… it’s so stale that the whole world… from nepal to south africa, from brazil to india… is just itching to witness the passing of bahati’s bill. these are not threats… it’s about cutting the crap and moving forward. pass it already.

    I hate to break it to you, but India supported African nations in rejecting attempts by the white commonwealth nations led by UK, Canada and Australia to impose gayism on Africans. Brazil, India, South Africa and Nepal may celebrate gayism, but they know better than to try and export such rubbish to Africa. So my friend, stop deluding yourself. I read about the gay sex militants urging the South African president to promote gayism in Nigeria. The militants were silently and rudely ignored by Jacob Zuma who visited Nigeria recently.

  • Maazi NCO

    I hate to break it to you, but India supported African nations in rejecting attempts by the white commonwealth nations led by UK, Canada and Australia to impose gayism on Africans.

    I was referring to the events of the Commonwealth summit a few weeks back which outraged Nigerian legislators enough to amend their anti-gay marriage laws to have stiffer penalties and pass it into law while screaming that Westerner can go to hell with their aid. It has been reported by Voice of America (VOA) that Ghanaian MPs are now considering an anti-gay law since their President blasted David Cameron for blackmail

  • Maazi NCO

    One is at this point forcibly of President Museveni’s reported statement that (and I quote) LGBT Ugandans “have lived well in Uganda for ages even before colonization“.

    El-Presidente has to mollify his American government friends who in turn need to mollify the sex deviants that form a crucial part of their 2011 re-election campaign. Beyond conciliatory words, I don’t see anything else.

  • anteros

    …the whole world, including nigeria… is anxiously watching our parliament for any signs of action on bahati’s bill. pass it.

  • Maazi NCO

    Yes, you ethnically cleansed the Indians, and the Jews, didn’t you?

    Don’t be silly !!! Gayism cannot be compared in anyway to the dignified Jewish people or Amerindians. Gayism is a sexually deviant behaviour and nothing more. Trying to fashion the practitioners of gayism into a pseudo-ethnic identity who are oppressed and need protection is a piece of gay propaganda that will never sell in our neck of the woods…

  • Maazi NCO

    the whole world, including nigeria… is anxiously watching our parliament for any signs of action on bahati’s bill. pass it.

    Hahahahahahahaha…Is this your idea of a spaghetti western film-style Mexican Stand-off. Oh Pleaasseeeee !!!!

  • Maazi NCO

    the whole world, including nigeria… is anxiously watching our parliament for any signs of action on bahati’s bill. pass it.

    I doubt the Nigerians are looking at Uganda or at Honourable David Bahati MP. I have a “strong feeling” that the Nigerians will pass their bill into law before we in Uganda get the chance to debate the Bahati Bill. But the most important thing is that the Bahati Bill will eventually become law. Once again, this is the 9th parliament (not the 8th parliament).

  • Maazi NCO

    What the fanatics who support the kill-the-gays bill forget is that those who would be persecuted are not just gay, lesbian and bisexual Ugandans, but mainly those who are mistaken as gay, etc,

    I have no interest in getting anyone killed, but gayism and gay propaganda cannot be allowed to thrive openly in Uganda and the Parliament will act in the interests of the Ugandan people and not in the interest of the foreigners

    POINT OF CORRECTION:

    El-Presidente has to mollify his American government friends who in turn need to mollify the sex deviants that form a crucial part of their 2011 re-election campaign. Beyond conciliatory words, I don’t see anything else.

    I meant the 2012 US Elections. :D

  • anteros

    heard it all before… many many times since 2009 and from many many different authorities on the bill.

    point is, the same reasons why the bill hasn’t been passed (despite being the single most important goal that 99.9% of ugandans voted their representatives into parliament to achieve), are the same reasons why the bill will never be passed… and, as pointed out earlier, many of those reasons are the same reasons why the bill isn’t about to be discarded.

    so, again… pass the bill… discard the bill… do something with the bill other than use it for the dubious purposes it has served to date, and for which it seems to have been crafted.

    please, we’re tired of promises and we’re tired of waiting… discard the bill or pass the bill, and force ugandans to deal with the pre-determined consequences.

  • Richard Willmer

    There is no particular ‘foreign interest’ on the part of the US or EU, in defending human rights in Uganda; rather the reserve, maybe: perhaps the more divided, violent and inhumane is a country, the more easily ‘exploitable’ it is. As for the 2012 US Elections: most LGBT US voters will probably be voting Democrat whatever happens, so Obama’s recent policy announcement is almost certainly not a ‘net vote winner’. Furthermore, I don’t quite see how some kind of implicit ‘endorsement’ from Yoweri Museveni would help Barack Obama. Obama’s election machine will be formidable, and will manage perfectly well without help from ageing autocratic African rulers.

    Extreme ring-winger Rick Perry has some ‘interesting’ ideas about aid. He wants aid to be given only to those who serve ‘US security interests’ … (make of that what you will – I know what I think that means)

  • Richard Willmer

    I think anteros has a good point here: the Bill is just meant to ‘be around’ to serve certain people’s political ends, and could be understood as a player in the power struggle between the ‘elected’ President of the Ugandan State, and the ‘elected’ (in the same set of allegedly dodgy elections) Parliament.

    ‘Maazi’ and Co. can’t ‘let it go’ (issue = loss of face) and M7 can’t let it pass (issues = loss of cash + loss of western good will – something which stops countries like China driving the hard bargain it would like to re. access to UG’s natural resources). So the Bahati-inspired soap opera continues … and the longer it continues, the less credible it all looks to increasingly bemused Ugandans and others; after all, time and the internet are on our side. :-)

  • Richard Willmer

    The Bahati Bill situation really is an “everyone-a-loser” scenario! Everyone in Uganda, that is.

  • Maazi NCO

    please, we’re tired of promises and we’re tired of waiting… discard the bill or pass the bill, and force ugandans to deal with the pre-determined consequences.

    Are you so delusional that you think we are in era of the 8th parliament? We are in the new era !! I will like to welcome your delusional mind to the 9th parliament. In this parliamentary session, we are making progress in keeping the aspirations of ordinary Ugandans at the fore. Most Ugandans want gayism and gay propaganda to be shackled with huge chains and we will deliver that when the time is right. No amount of gay propaganda from abroad will sway us.

  • Maazi NCO

    As for the 2012 US Elections: most LGBT US voters will probably be voting Democrat whatever happens, so Obama’s recent policy announcement is almost certainly not a ‘net vote winner’.

    Actually the policy is a vote winner. Look my friend, I lived in the Big Apple for a couple of years. Sex deviants obviously will not vote for Republicans who are less sympathetic to their deviant sexscapades than Democrats. However, sex deviants can always decide to sit at home on election day and refuse to vote for either Republicans or Democrats. Obama’s pledge to spend millions of dollars promoting the gospel of gayism worldwide will raise the spirit of the sex deviants psychologically and help mobilize them to cast a vote for Obama and his democratic party faithfuls come election day.

  • Richard Willmer

    Waffle, waffle, waffle! (What convoluted nonsense!)

    US elections are generally decided by domestic issues.

    But I think anteros may have a good point above: the Bill may be meant to ‘be around’ to serve certain people’s political ends, and could be understood as a player in the power struggle between the ‘elected’ President of the Ugandan State, and the ‘elected’ (in the same set of allegedly dodgy elections) Parliament.

    Bahati and Co. can’t ‘let it go’ (issue = loss of face) and M7 can’t let it pass (issues = loss of cash + loss of western good will – something which stops countries like China driving the hard bargain it would like to re. access to UG’s natural resources). So the Bahati-inspired soap opera continues … and the longer it continues, the less credible it all looks to increasingly bemused Ugandans and others; after all, time and the internet are on our side.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’ is seems to be claiming that he is an expert on what he terms ‘sex deviants’. Does this mean that enjoyed many happy hours in the company so-called ‘sex deviants’ while in New York, I wonder?

  • Richard Willmer

    And I wonder what he got up to while in London, and whether he offer startling insights into how gay Britons might vote?

    (A general point about voters: the kinds of people who take an interest in matters such as the current shenanigans in Kampala are the kinds of people who will always exercise their democratic right.)

  • anteros

    you know, anybody who’s been paying attention will have noticed that the 9th parliament isn’t remotely as excited about bahati’s bill as the the 8th parliament was. and given the kind of delayed response firefighting performances we’ve seen from the 9th parliament – yes, they’re a little less dimwitted than the boneheads in the 8th parliament who made bahati famous by entertaining his nonsense – but just looking at the mess uganda is in and is sinking deeper into, the 9th parliament has no hope of surmounting the rapidly increasing and worsening “pressing national issues” mentioned by Maazi and bringing the country to a desired state (as ssempa was crazy enough to claim on youtube, uganda is now a developed super power with oil resources like kuwait and saudi arabia) in which bahati’s bill could be afforded the time, space and resources to be (re-re-re-re-)debated and finally passed… nevermind the fact that that would kill the whole purpose of the bill. it will never be passed while the looters still need a distraction to assist them make hay while the sun shines… so yeah… 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, whateverth parliament will never be willing and able to pass bahati’s bill. a prudent parliament would discard it… we may have to wait several years for a revolution or for China to colonize Uganda before we get a parliament smart, honest and prudent enough to discard the bill and decriminalize homosexuality, but it will happen… eventually. meanwhile, please find a new distraction if you must have one because bahati’s bill is so tired and every ugandan is now fully aware that bahati’s bill is taking us nowhere.

  • Jim Guinnessey

    I don’t think these forums for comments should be monopolized by two warring factions (Maazi and Willmer). My feeling is that Museveni (and his Mrs.) along with shadowy, bigoted and well paid Bahati (by white anti-gay USA -based evangelicals)are just a bunch of crooks like so many other African leaders who want donor nations to pile on the finances for them to personally plunder or give out to their supporters. Of course, pretending to take the high road, Museveni couches his slight change of tune away from the usual savage anti-Gay rants as “Uganda needs donor money for railways, roads, etc.” Donor nations should not be fooled by this typical African sweet talk.

  • Richard Willmer

    It does seem that parliamentary interest in the Bahati Bill has waned. After all, it could be passed ‘on the nod’ in the space of an hour or two, so it does appear that, for whatever reason, the political will has lessened.

    Looking back … Bahati probably massively overplayed his hand. Had he, in 2009, come up with something akin to the 2006 Nigerian Bill (which is in the course of possibly being enacted), he might have ‘got away with it’ (and indeed, had Nigeria acted before Bahati’s ‘call for slaughter’, she might have been able to reduce the impact of her bill on her foreign relations).

    In a separate development, a Nigerian ‘muslim scholar’ has called for gays to be executed and their mutilated bodies to be put on public display: http://bikyamasr.com/50913/nigerian-islamic-scholar-calls-for-death-to-gay-community/. ‘Maazi’s’ desire for systematic repression is just the ‘not-so-thin end’ of that backward, savage, barbaric wedge, of which he seems to be so proud. (Maybe this Nigerian creature and Bahati could jointly organize a ‘Murderers’ Pride’ march, confident in their assertion that they were not as bad as peaceful, honest, tax-paying gays? Participants could strip to the waste, paint themselves [blood] red and have a communal ‘chopping session’ afterwards.)

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Jim – Maybe you’re right. Maybe I should just ignore ‘Maazi’. But he does provide such ‘tempting targets’ with his diatribe!

  • anteros

    so true, richard… he certainly knows how to press a dude’s buttons with his mumbo jumbo nonsense.

  • Richard Willmer

    There is another issue.

    M7 is clever, and he wants that aid going to his exchequer and not elsewhere (e.g. to charities, human right groups, NGOs or the UN). An important function that ‘Maazi’ performs is to remind us that, as Guinnessey* has suggested above, the danger is still very real. I do actually pass on some of ‘Maazi’s’ comments to …. when I think …. might be believing M7 a little too much.

    * He has referred to me as ‘Willmer’, so I thought I should ‘return the favour’!

  • Maazi NCO

    I don’t think these forums for comments should be monopolized by two warring factions (Maazi and Willmer). My feeling is that Museveni (and his Mrs.) along with shadowy, bigoted and well paid Bahati (by white anti-gay USA -based evangelicals)are just a bunch of crooks like so many other African leaders who want donor nations to pile on the finances for them to personally plunder or give out to their supporters…..

    No need for long talk. Simply get your gayism-obsessed western governments to cut the donor aid and then promptly back off Ugandan internal affairs !!!

    ….so yeah… 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th, whateverth parliament will never be willing and able to pass bahati’s bill. a prudent parliament would discard it… we may have to wait several years for a revolution or for China to colonize Uganda, blah, blah, blah

    You are even more deluded than I original thought….. :-)

  • Maazi NCO

    POINT OF CORRECTION:

    You are even more deluded than I original thought

    You are even more deluded than I originally though :-)

  • Maazi NCO

    Richard Willmer—Sometimes, perception is miles away from the reality.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Jim G =

    I don’t think these forums for comments should be monopolized by two warring factions (Maazi and Willmer).

    StraightGrandmother =

    Why not? It is good entertainment and Richard Willmer is doing is doing a heck of a good job, he is wining the debate. Better than any of us could do. He has got an inside track, I say let ‘er rip.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ ‘Maazi NCO MP’

    So are you saying that the impression you give that the danger is still real is in fact inaccurate? Or are you saying that Yoweri Museveni is a fool? Or what?

    (Calling someone who restored order in a war-torn country, and has held power for 26 years, a fool strikes me as pretty deluded and/or arrogant!)

    @ SGM

    Thank you. I do my best … though Jim does have a point, and maybe I’ll try to be more sparing and pithy with my comment.

  • Richard Willmer

    Whatever Museveni really thinks about the Bahati Bill, what he assuredly doesn’t want is politicos ‘shooting off their mouths’ as he attempts to mollify ‘the west’.

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    Maazi NCO wrote:

    Gayism cannot be compared in anyway to the dignified Jewish people or Amerindians. Gayism is a sexually deviant behaviour and nothing more. Trying to fashion the practitioners of gayism into a pseudo-ethnic identity who are oppressed and need protection is a piece of gay propaganda that will never sell in our neck of the woods…

    I mentioned Indians, not Amerendians. The ones who were expelled from Uganda.

    On 4 August 1972, the then President of Uganda, Idi Amin, ordered the expulsion of his country’s Indian minority, giving them 90 days to leave Uganda. Amin said that he had had a dream in which God told him to order the expulsion.

    The ethnic cleansing of the Indians in Uganda was conducted in a Indophobic climate in which Ugandan government claimed that the Indians were hoarding wealth and goods to the detriment of indigenous Africans and “sabotaging” the Ugandan economy

    This kind of scapegoating has been a feature of Ugandan politics for decades.

    The 1968 Committee on “Africanization in Commerce and Industry” in Uganda made far-reaching Indophobic proposals. A system of work permits and trade licenses was introduced in 1969 to restrict the role of Indians in economic and professional activities. Indians were segregated and discriminated against in all walks of life.

    After Idi Amin came to power, he exploited pre-existing Indophobia and spread propaganda against Indians involving stereotyping and scapegoating the Indian minority. Indians were stereotyped as “only traders” and “inbred” to their profession. Indians were labelled as “dukawallas” — an occupational term that degenerated into an anti-Indian slur during Amin’s time), and stereotyped as “greedy, conniving”, without any racial identity or loyalty but “always cheating, conspiring and plotting” to subvert Uganda. Amin used this propaganda to justify a campaign of “de-Indianization”, eventually resulting in the expulsion and ethnic cleansing of Uganda’s Indian minority.

    Neither was the expulsion the first in Uganda’s history, the country’s Kenyan minority having been expelled in 1969.

    Yes, it’s all the fault of the Kenyans. Or the Asians. Or the Jews. Or the Gays. Or the Westerners. One day, it will be your fault… then what are you going to do?

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Zoe

    ‘Maazi’ is doing what we all do from time to time: blaming this-or-that group for what we perceive as ‘a problem’. He is also trying to define a kind of ‘national identity’ for the young nation of which he is a part (and Uganda is a modern invention – a product of a semi-arbitrary map-drawing exercise brought about partly by the unpleasant historical fact of colonization).

    The most damaging legacy of colonization is the psychological one. Those who are colonized are taught to see others as being responsible for their (the ‘colonized ones’) fate, so it perhaps not surprising that ‘Maazi’ sees ‘western-backed (which they could indeed in a way become if aid needs switched to support them) gay (actually, human) rights activists’ as a threat to himself. And it is these activists that ‘Maazi’ detests so deeply. He probably doesn’t mind that much what gay Ugandans ‘do in the bedrooms’ (he has hinted at this attitude in the past), as long as they continue to collude with him in the pretence that they do not exist. In this respect, he differs from Bahati, who wishes to ‘seek out and destroy’.

    And this brings us to the real significance of what M7 has been saying recently: he (M7) now admits reality. Good – it’s a start. The cat is out of the bag: there are LGB/T/I Ugandans, just as there are LGB/T/I Britons, Americans, Nigerians, French, Saudis, Somalis, Dutch, Norwegians …

  • Pingback: Uganda: Presidenten vil heller snakke om jernbane enn homofili | Homonytt fra hele verden

  • Maazi NCO

    @ ‘Maazi NCO MP’

    So are you saying that the impression you give that the danger is still real is in fact inaccurate? Or are you saying that Yoweri Museveni is a fool? Or what?

    (Calling someone who restored order in a war-torn country, and has held power for 26 years, a fool strikes me as pretty deluded and/or arrogant!)

    Ha,ha, ha, ha, ha….Patronizing trash. Even the dullest member of the executive cabinet of el-Presidente can smell this patrionizing tripe from a mile away

    StraightGrandmother =

    Why not? It is good entertainment and Richard Willmer is doing is doing a heck of a good job, he is wining the debate. Better than any of us could do. He has got an inside track, I say let ‘er rip.

    If I want to win debates, I speak in parliament. I am not here on this blog to debate anything with anybody. I am here to state the position of the vast majority of the Ugandan people on the subject of gayism….

  • Maazi NCO

    I mentioned Indians, not Amerendians. The ones who were expelled from Uganda.

    Okay, you are right. I just re-read your post

    ….. Or the Asians. Or the Jews. Or the Gays. Or the Westerners. One day, it will be your fault… then what are you going to do?

    Please this is not the 1960s or 1970s….Please fast-forward to Uganda in year 2011. Ugandan Indians have since had their properties returned to them and have been re-integrated into the country politically and economically. Yes, there are still racial tensions, but the Indians are mostly fine and thriving back here in Uganda. Ugandan Indians have contested parliamentary elections against Black Ugandans either as Independents or Political Party members and have won those elections. We have Ugandan Indian MPs in our parliament.

    Gayism is not an ethnic identity neither is it a racial one. It is just an anti-social, counter-cultural, deviant and insane behaviour not that much different from necrophilia and other deviant sexual behaviours. Uganda and the rest of Africa will never recognize gayism as a kind of ethnic identity as is the case in the western world. That piece of gay propganda cannot sell in Uganda.

  • anteros

    *gasp*

    he missed the point again… or pretended to miss the point, again.

    i’m so shocked :-/

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    Maazi NXO wrote:

    Gayism is not an ethnic identity neither is it a racial one. It is just an anti-social, counter-cultural, deviant and insane behaviour not that much different from necrophilia and other deviant sexual behaviours.

    Like Polygamy, you mean?

  • Jayhuck

    Maazi does more on this blog to further the cause of gay people in Uganda, and everywhere, than he knows :)

  • Richard Willmer

    Yes, Jayhuck – ‘Maazi’ and Co. have been most helpful, to be sure. They show just how nasty the ‘anti-gay brigade’ is, and thus help to strengthen support for this human rights campaign.

    I talk to one or two UG politicos (other than ‘Maazi’) from time to time, and a sense of embarrassment concerning the Bahati Bill is definitely there. (No, ‘Maazi’, I am not going to tell you who they are!) Of course, like ‘Maazi’, they are not exactly thrilled about recent pronouncements from the US and UK Governments (I can understand that – noone likes it when their country is criticized), but they cannot deny that these governments ‘have a point’ … just as I (a Briton) cannot deny that the Government of France ‘has a point’ when it points to key flaws in the British economy.

    Anteros is actually rather wise to challenge the ever-verbose ‘Maazi NCO (Opposition) MP’ to ‘Put Up or Shut Up’. Obviously ‘Shut Up’ would be preferable all round: after all, what has Uganda got to lose by quietly dropping the Bahati Bill? Nothing at all, in any material sense – and one suspects that that clever, crafty fellow M7 is beginning to understand this.

  • Richard Willmer

    Just one small point: banning child sacrifice was once considered ‘counter-cultural’ in some quarters … but that does not make it a bad idea!

    (This is response to another little ‘gem’ from our intrepid Ugandan MP: “Gayism is just … counter-cultural …“)

  • Richard Willmer

    (By ‘it’ I mean ‘banning child sacrifice’, of course! Just thought I ought to clarify that!!!)

  • Richard Willmer

    Here’s a well-argued appraisal of Nigeria’s gay-bashing Bill: http://jurist.org/hotline/2011/12/damian-ugwu-nigerian-marriage.php

    (Obviously, not legitimizing ‘gay marriage’ is one thing; criminalizing individuals or groups that promote the human rights for LGB persons is quite another. After all, people in this country are perfectly entitled, if they so choose, to campaign for the legalization of, for example. Furthermore, people are not criminalized for ‘unofficial’ polygamous arrangements – in fact, they are really quite common here in London.)

  • Richard Willmer

    Please insert the word ‘polygamy’ at the end of line 4 of para. 2 above!

  • anteros

    if i’m not mistaken, even lgbti rights defenders in uganda seem unimpressed with both donors and government for using lgbti rights and bahati’s bill respectively to play their political games.

    all of us are sick of the bill’s pending status (except those benefiting from its pending status, of course) – they know the consequences of passing it and the consequences of discarding it but they deliberately keep it in the pipeline to maximize on the power they think that the bill’s pending status gives them… the opportunity to score points with the fundamentalist electorate by amusing ugandans with hopeless rhetoric and righteous indignation as they turn it into an all-consuming bitter disagreement between “poor black pious panafricanist freedom fighters” and “rich white sinful neocolonialist oppressors” …keeping ugandans captivated by appealing to an opportunistically defined sense of nationalism/patriotism/loyalty while the big goons go about their looting, plundering and mismanagement… it’s called “bahati-ism” and it must stop.

    they need to be challenged into passing or discarding the bill so that we can get relief and see an end to all this maddening bahati-ism. they cannot and will not pass it both because of their selfish interests in keeping the bill’s status as “pending”, and because of reasons beyond their control – not just the loss of aid and goodwill, but the country is literally collapsing and parliament is too preoccupied with trying to be seen doing something about the country’s imminent collapse for it to pass bahati’s bill… which is why we hear the big man clumsily turning things around by lecturing donors rather than our parliament about setting sensible priorities.

    if they pass the bill – and that’s a big if …most ugandan “politicians” are just too short sighted to know what’s good for them beyond “kati nfunira wa?” (what’s in it for me right now?) and they clearly couldn’t care less about what’s good for the country …managing the bill’s implementation will be a nightmare as demonstrated by the rival pastors’ never-ending fiasco.

    pass it… we don’t need aid, right?

    pass it and feel good about the huge difference the bill will make in the lives of ugandans whose major concern is poverty. but know that passing it won’t be the end of the story – laws are repealed all the time and this one, given its extreme and impractical nature coupled with its redundancy (there are already laws against homosexuality), bahati’s bill would not be difficult to repeal if passed into law… and repealing it would further assist lgbti rights in uganda by drawing attention to the unjust nature of already existing discriminatory laws which will then become easier to repeal… but bahati’s bill would need to be passed for it to be repealed. so yeah… pass it.

    or discard it… you can always find a new national distraction (like the “sugar crisis” that dominated the media and parliament for months) to keep ugandans entertained while you go about doing what you do best… just know that the clock is ticking for you leeches and your bahati-ist cheerleaders – removing term limits doesn’t mean that the plundering will never be stopped.

    the plundering will be stopped and decriminalization is fast on its way… bahati has greatly accelerated the process by introducing this useful bill.

    pass it.

  • Richard Willmer

    The Constitutional Court would probably throw it out if it were passed. The Ugandan Judiciary has made some ‘good calls’ in recent times.

    I say ‘discard it’. Complete waste of time … just makes UG look like ‘Iran-in-drag’!

  • anteros

    “Iraq in drag!” haha! you’ve just made my day, Richard!

  • Richard Willmer

    We do our best to make our friends’ day! :-)

  • Richard Willmer

    How about ‘North Korea in fishnet tights’?! What d’ya reckon, anteros?

  • anteros

    omg! omg! my sides hurt! :-D

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    Perhaps you mean Iraq in Blackface.

    Oh wait, that might be seen as offensive and racist – even if more appropriate. I’d certainly say it would be highly offensive..

    But it’s still socially acceptable to make jokes about “Trannies”.

    No, I’m not offended, A little saddened perhaps, but I realise there was no malice behind it. It’s what Trans and Intersex people call “cis-privilege”. It never occured to you what you were doing, any more than someone in 1911 would think about the racism in the term “that’s mighty white of you”.

    We now return you to our original program.

  • anteros

    i learn new things every day.

    while no offence was intended, i apologize zoe.

    i wouldnt laugh at blackface because it may be a bit extreme and offensive, but i’d laugh just as hard at the thought of bahati in tight jeans or museveni in gangsta gear (there were hilarious photos floating around cyberspace after his campaign rap song went viral)… and i chuckled when i saw photos of obama in traditional african attire. i’d laugh if i saw the only nun i know wearing a mini skirt.

    is it possible for a country to be in drag? i think drag may mean different things to different people – which means i got some reading to do. wasn’t richard poking fun at the countries that act like they got a carrot stuck in the wrong place for being so rigid and boring? …and not at people in fishnet stockings or in drag? whatever the case, i’m sorry for laughing.

  • anteros

    still thinking …cis-privilege, heteronormativity, patriarchy…

    i’m sorry Zoe, really.

  • Richard Willmer

    It’s satire, Zoe. That’s all.

    No reference to transgendered, transsexual or intersex persons, or to male or female homosexual persons, was made … and none was intended. The point was entirely politically, and to do with ‘badly disguised’ – as opposed to ‘naked’ – totalitarianism.

    I regret that you were offended, but do not offer an apology.

  • Richard Willmer

    Ah, sorry, Zoe – I see you were not actually offended, merely ‘saddened’. I apologize for my mistake on that point.

    With respect, I do think your little homily on ‘cis-privelege’ was something of an overreaction. I’m not exactly in the ‘sexual mainstream’ myself, and have transgendered friends who I know would find such pithy aphorisms highly entertaining. Furthermore, having a laugh about things that could be seen to pertain to ones’ self is a wonderful way of breaking down hostility on the part of others. I’ve often in the past ‘camped it up’ in the company of African friends and, as their laughter increased, whatever hostility there might have been subsided.

  • Pingback: Box Turtle Bulletin » Uganda’s President on Gays: “First Talk About Railroads”

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ Jarred

    No reference to transgendered, transsexual or intersex persons, or to male or female homosexual persons, was made … and none was intended.

    Intent is not magic. It doesn’t magically shield people from the unintended consequences of your words or actions.

    With respect, I do think your little homily on ‘cis-privelege’ was something of an overreaction.

    You made a joke without considering how it might affect those for whom being trans* is a harsh reality and something that is often mocked. How is that not an act of privilege?

    I’m not exactly in the ‘sexual mainstream’ myself,

    Being gay/bi does not make one immune from being thoughtless when it comes to trans* issues.

    ..have transgendered friends who I know would find such pithy aphorisms highly entertaining.

    Good for your friends. Zoe doesn’t share that view. Why are your friends’ feelings about such humor more valid than hers?

    Furthermore, having a laugh about things that could be seen to pertain to ones’ self is a wonderful way of breaking down hostility on the part of others.

    Are you trans*? No? In that case, you’re not having a laugh about things that could be seen to pertain to yourself. You’re having a laugh about things that could pertain to someone else. Telling someone else to “lighten up” over your joke at their expense (again, whether that was your intent or not) is quite invalidating and inconsiderate.

  • Richard Willmer

    But I wasn’t talking about trans* people. I was making a comment about political systems.

    It was not making a joke at Zoe’s or anyone else’s expense. If she saw it that way, then I regret that. Nor was I telling her or anyone else to ‘lighten up’; I was making a serious point.

  • Richard Willmer

    (Well, I suppose I was making a joke at ‘Maazi NCO’s’ expense, come to think of it …)

  • Richard Willmer

    I will say that I have enormous respect for Zoe, who makes consummately erudite and superbly researched contributions to this blog.

    I’ve also taken a look at your blog, Jarred: it is most interesting, informative and well-written.

    But I’m not ‘backing down’ re. my little political aphorism; when I blog on issues such the uniquely vile Bahati Bill (and its most vile feature, apart from the savage discrimination it seeks to legitimize, is its viciously intrusive and totalitarian nature), I tend to be a bit of a political ‘street-fighter’ … and I think that approach (which involves quirky humour from time to time) has its place. In other contexts, is has even got a few ‘positive results’.

  • Maazi NCO

    if i’m not mistaken, even lgbti rights defenders in uganda seem unimpressed with both donors and government for using lgbti rights and bahati’s bill, blah, blah, blah .

    Anteros, you are really good in imagining things. Continue day-dreaming

    I will say that I have enormous respect for Zoe, who makes consummately erudite and superbly researched contributions to this blog.

    It is rather comical how you lot fight and hussle to be categorized and identified by pseudo-ethnic identities like “Tranny”, “Gay”, “Bi-sexual”, “Lesbian” or whatever tickles your crazy minds. Uganda will never recognize all these silly identities and that will be backed by law when we come round it later on within the lifespan of this parliamentary session.

    Intersex persons have nothing to fear since their genetic phyisological condition is well understood in most African nations to be natural and no legislation shall ever be passed or even debated against them. Hermaphroditism has been with us in Africa for a long time and that is fine. However, gayism will NEVER be accorded the same tolerance. It is a deviant, unAfrican and transparently insane behaviour.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO MP’

    I can assure that, whatever minor disagreements you may witness on this blog, we are all under no illusion when it comes to who is ‘the common enemy’!

    The claim that ‘intersex persons have nothing to fear’ in places like Uganda is derisory, as Zoe has clearly indicated in earlier contributions.

    May I also point out to you that the terms ‘intersex’ and ‘hermaphrodite’ are not synonymous. And what, pray, is ‘hermaphroditism’? We are not talking about any ‘ism’ – we are talking about a term that describes the biological identity of a human being. (I have a sneeking suspicion that, the moment a hermaphrodite person or an intersex person engages in a sexual relationship, bahati-type responses will suddenly come into play, even if you are sensible enough to say that they shouldn’t.)

    You clearly have no understanding whatsoever of transgenderedness, which often has a clearly evident biological basis.

    Furthermore, there are indications that same-sex orientation also has a ‘biological basis’. You can choose to ignore these indications if you wish, but that does not make you right. And even if it cannot be proven that they do, you are not able to prove that they don’t!

    Additionally, even if there were no biological basis for same-sex orientation, the fact that you support proposals to punish gay people for activities that straight people can participate in with impunity puts you firmly ‘in the wrong’ when it comes to any credible concept of ‘fairness’.

  • Richard Willmer

    Anteros is quite right to point out that some LGB/T/I activists in UG are not happy with the recent policy announcement from the UK Government.

    As I’ve suggested before, I too have reservations with the ‘announcement’ part, although I think the policy of reallocating aid away from repressive governments and towards ‘project support’ is the best one available under the circumstances.

  • anteros

    maazi, clearly you have never heard or read about the experiences of intersex ugandans… there’s a book available, newspaper articles have been written (most of them very misleading in their use of terminology – lazy journalism is nothing special in uganda), and at least one television interview has been screened (the interviewer’s angle was mostly a combination of cheap pity and insensitive fascination rather than educational) … all telling a very different story to your claims, mr. self-proclaimed africa guru.

    yeah, sure… “later on within the lifespan of this parliamentary session”… yay. sounds more promising than ever. we cant wait. how many more sleeps?

    what ever happened to all the burning urgency since october 2009 and the claims that our multi-tasking parliament can easily handle all national issues concurrently and “gayism” being a top priority as a “growing cancer” and “creeping evil” to be addressed immediately by the unanimously anti-gay parliament (supported by the president and 99.9% of ugandans and all their religious and cultural leaders and the nationwide marching national task force against homosexuality) before the invisible rich white gay recruiters use billions in foreign currency, ipods and laptops to turn all ugandan children into pedophilic homosexuals within weeks? i see you’ve been slowing down the pace quite a bit, mr. “it’s coming soon”? wassa matta!? …parliament lost the bill-passing rubber stamp handed down by the british colonialists? what are we gonna hear after the 9th parliament closes, “before the second coming”?

    since the bill’s indefinitely pending status is evidently central to bahati-ism, perhaps i’m not as good as imagining things as you claim.

  • anteros

    oops! how could i forget that the entire national task force against homosexuality is in court and on its way to jail for making up gay stories about those who chose not to join them in stirring up an anti-gay storm. could that be where all the steam disappeared – somewhere between court and jail?

  • anteros

    more accurately… the national task force against homosexuality is in court on its way to jail for snooping around people’s offices and giving young boys petty cash and cheap mobile phones as gifts in exchange for making up gay stories and lying to the police, all in an attempt to bring down those who wouldn’t join them in their anti-gay crusades. oh, and buturo got fired for being a useless anti-gay-obsessed oaf. meaning bahati’s probably kinda lonely in pushing the bill… is that what happened to all the urgency and the 99.9% of ugandans?

  • Richard Willmer

    Anteros

    Your entertaining narrative above might not contain all the facts, but it captures beautifully the atmosphere of confusion and farce that now surrounds Bahati’s infamous ‘tar baby’.

    So just what might be going on? I think it’s rather more confused (and farcical) than even Anteros believes.

    First, those ‘pastors’ …

    Solomon Mmale has always disliked the Bahati Bill; his view (and here he is surely correct) is that it was, from the get-go, thoroughly counter-productive relative to his, and others’, ‘anti-gay aims’. He agrees with Anteros, but for very different reasons, of course. Then there’s poor old Ssempa: he screams ‘poo poo’ on the one hand but has decidedly cold feet when it comes to the Bill’s genocidal intent (it was reported that he actually wanted to reduce the penalties in the Bill to a level well below those stipulated by Penal Code 145). Robert Kayanja himself is not averse to the occasional anti-gay outburst, though the timing of the last one may have more to do with the current court case than with what he actually believes (and practises?). The ‘pastor saga’, while a matter of interest in its own right, is something of a sideshow to Bahati’s pantomime.

    Now the Government …

    My understanding is that the line at the Ugandan Ministry of Internal Affairs (one of the ministries charged with implementing the provisions of the Bill were it ever to be enacted) is that the Bill is ‘on the shelf’; i.e. it’s still very much around, but perhaps about as welcome as Banquo’s Ghost – precisely because its implementation would be a complete nightmare, for all sorts of reasons. On a wider level, there’s the open question about might happen to general budget support, and at just the moment when tax revenues fall (people in prison can’t pay tax – although a little-mentioned aspect of the Bill does involve the confiscation of assets … an echo of the Nazi confiscation of Jewish assets in the 1930s and 1940s, perhaps) and the court and/or prison systems might require a sudden and dramatic expansion programme! Would the Chinese play Santa, and step in with a pile of jingling cash? Maybe … but then again, why should they? After all, it would not have been their fault that the Ugandan Budget had suddenly developed some rather unsightly holes. Very understandably, they have just said something to the EU along the lines of “you created your current financial mess; why on earth should we sort it out?” And the EU is China’s largest trading partner by some considerable margin.

    And so to the ‘sovereign Parliament’ (as our resident MP like to call it) …

    We must not forget that the ‘political cycle’ in Uganda has reached a rather delicate stage. Confidence in politicians generally among Uganda’s growing and well-informed (partly owing to the relatively free press in UG) intelligentsia has hit an all-time low; the Big Man’s hold on power is looking a little shaky and a credible ‘exit strategy’ for him is nowhere to be seen. Manoeuvring and intrigue are the order of the day, and the Bahati Bill’s most likely role just now is one element of the power struggle that is underway. It could even be suggested that the Bill is one ‘lever’ that those who want a change of government might pull, although just at the moment other such ‘levers’ appear to offer a greater prospect of bringing about the kind of destabilization that some MPs would like to see. (The current power struggle notwithstanding, there are of course several ‘genuine’ issues with which the UG Parliament is seeking to resolve.) With regard specifically to the Bill, much will depend on which way Madame Speaker jumps (the shelf on which it sits is currently in her Committee, I think).

    What a weird composite picture emerges! A bill that was supposed to unite the 99.9% against the 2 – 4% (making a rather Orwellian total of 101.9 – 103.9%!) is proving a source of division amongst even those who like its general objectives.

    What a mess!

  • Maazi NCO

    Your entertaining narrative above might not contain all the facts, but it captures beautifully the atmosphere of confusion and farce that now surrounds Bahati’s infamous ‘tar baby’, blah, blah, blah

    Okay, I am in hurry… So I will keep it brief. I have read your long essay which is a botched attempt at punditry from a thousand miles away. You sit in your arm-chair in London thousands of miles away, read Ugandan media reports and then use your perception to build up the realities you want to see. Gayism is already dead in the water and the Bahati Bill will be debated and passed at the appropriate time.

    Oops! how could i forget that the entire national task force against homosexuality is in court

    The pastors who are in court are not Ugandan MPs so what the hell are you talking about ??? These pastors in court were already being investigated by the Police for allegedly framing another pastor long before MP David Bahati submitted the original verson of his bill in October 2009. The court trial of Ssempa and co has absolutely nothing to do with Bahati Bill and will not affect the ability of Ugandan Parliament to debate and pass it into law. Keep day-dreaming…

  • Maazi NCO

    …..little-mentioned aspect of the Bill does involve the confiscation of assets … an echo of the Nazi confiscation of Jewish assets in the 1930s and 1940s, perhaps)

    Gay Propaganda !!! Gayism is not an ethnic or racial identity. It is a deviant sexual behaviour not comparable in anyway to the dignified Jewish people. Stop trying to connect Jewish people with sexual deviance. Nobody in Ugandan parliament buys that trash propaganda

    ***Okay… I am back to doing more serious things for my people*****

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi’ sounds a little ‘animated’! Has one hit a ‘raw nerve’ perhaps?

    He does like repeating himself, doesn’t he (I wonder if has ‘Gay propaganda’, ‘gayism’, ‘unAfrican’, ‘sex deviant’ etc in a Word document, so that he can just Copy+Paste)? He sounds more and more like a small child who refuses to eat his rice pudding: “I will have my bill, I will, I WILL!“, cf. “I won’t eat my rice pudding, I won’t, I WON’T!

    And then there’s “… my people.” (How deeply moving!) Meet MP Maazenevi, everyone! :-)

    Well, maybe he will get his bill … along with some other things he wasn’t bargaining for besides: repression has a very nasty habit of ‘spreading’.

  • anteros

    well, whatever happened to the incredibly vocal and visible marching national task force against homosexuality headed by ssempa and his troubled friends who all happen to be in the media now, because of their lying and cheating ways? might they be a little too busy pleading for mercy or an out-of-court settlement to be laying hands on bahati while standing in prayer with their muslim partners in crime and boring us with their televised lies about “recruitment” without presenting a shred of credible evidence and their lies about uganda not having laws to protect boys from pedophiles while conflating homosexuality with pedophilia (ssempa eventually unceremoniously admitted it was a lie) and their porno lies about what all homosexuals (don’t) do in the privacy of their bedrooms and supporting tabloids that published the identities of lgbti ugandans calling for them to be killed… maybe they gave up after realising that their best efforts at getting the bill passed were worthless? one wonders what keeps maazi’s anti-gay clock ticking if he isn’t a deluded day dreamer.

  • Richard Willmer

    Well, I think – though I don’t know – ‘the screechers’ (the ones who were making lots of noise with all their lies and hate speech) have been told to ‘put a sock in it’. Bad for UG’s image.

    As for the ‘Rolling Stone’: well … some fairly major changes there, I’ve heard. Not at all what it once was, I gather.

  • Richard Willmer

    Anteros : Do you like my ‘Maazeveni’ gag?! (I am rather proud of that … I know: pride’s a sin!)

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Zoe, Jarred

    I will offer an unreserved apology for yesterday.

    I can assure you both that nothing was further from my mind than upsetting trans* people, or indeed people like myself who are ‘not entirely certain’ of the ‘absolute nature’ of their sex identity (though I don’t have a ‘label’ that seems to express that uncertainty on my part).

    I do so for two reasons:-

    1. I have a tendency to be rather ‘abrasive’ from time to time (though I try to make sure that it is always ‘in a good cause’), and

    2. The priority is (as Zoe would say) to ‘get back to the programme’, and unmask every possible aspect of the utter lunacy of vile turpitudes such as Bahati’s ‘Slaughter’ Bill.

  • anteros

    love it! …especially the way it made me wonder for a moment before crackin up at the thought of museveni or a mini-museveni going on and on about “gayism” and recycling the same mumbo jumbo while hiding behind “Maazi” :-)

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazeveni’ and Museveni are very much not the same thing, I can assure you! ‘Maazeveni’ might even rather enjoy the idea that passing the Bill could prove less than ‘convenient’ for Museveni (hence my earlier comment).

  • Richard Willmer

    Developments in the ‘pastor wars’ case: http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1292696/-/bfm2yjz/-/index.html

    (There is a typo – I assume – in the report: “Buganda Road Chief Magistrate Vincent Mugabo stayed the trial to allow investigations into allegations that Grade One Magistrate John Patrick Wekesa has been handling the case unprofessionally and with impartiality.” Says it all, doesn’t it? :-( )

  • Richard Willmer

    (An impartial jurist! How shocking!)

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    @Richard Willmer:

    I will offer an unreserved apology for yesterday.

    Accepted with grateful thanks of course, but I’ll keep it in reserve for when you do something you should apologise for. This didn’t qualify.

    Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up;

    does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil;

    It doesn’t sweat the small stuff, nor get distracted with inconsequential trifles. All I had to do was mention my point, not belabour it. Let others fundamental goodness take it from there.

    For you are you know. Fundamentally good – as your apology shows.

    I guess that’s the difference between organised religion and my own beliefs. I think most people are in general pretty good. Flawed, ignorant, prone to lashing out in fear, very very imperfect (I know I am), but not too bad all told. Organised religion seems to take the opposite view, that all people without exception are fundamentally nasty and irresponsible, requiring dire threats of eternal damnation to keep the lid on.. Children, not adults.

    Some are, no doubt, but most people are not. If they were, we’d require a hundred times more police than we do – today’s society couldn’t function.

  • http://funfrotfacts.blogspot.com Throbert McGee

    So, Zoe and Jarred — how do you feel about Monty Python doing cross-dressing just for larfs?

  • Richard Willmer

    Thanks, Zoe. :-)

    (What you suggest about the ‘fundamental goodness’ of creation is actually there in that deeply truthful poetry that is Genesis Chapter 1, isn’t it?)

    Throbert

    The point is that I created a distraction from the ‘programme’ by ‘showing off’ – that was perhaps the real ‘sin’ in this case. (As we all agree, this Uganda situation is – quite literally – deadly serious: I was trying to make a point through ‘pithy humour’, and it misfired; and when challenged, I should simply have said what anteros did: namely ‘sorry’. That a highly intelligent guy like ‘Maazi NCO’ cannot understand why so many people are so angry and concerned is profoundly alarming, although he may just be ‘spouting a party line’ that he doesn’t really believe himself, hence his continual repetition of certain words and phrases. It happens often in ‘totalitarian contexts’, doesn’t?)

  • Richard Willmer

    Going back to the ‘programme’ …

    Part of what drives people like ‘Maazi NCO’ in their homophobic demagogery is a desire to ‘get at mzungu‘. That’s very understandable, given the historical realities. However, they choose to do so by bashing their own people. The Bahati Bill is inter alia a classic example of ‘cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face’.

    (In the end, if Ugandans persecute Ugandans, it won’t affect the vast majority of mzungus. It will simply make Uganda a worse place to be.)

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    So, Zoe and Jarred — how do you feel about Monty Python doing cross-dressing just for larfs?

    As acceptable and harmless in 1971 as Amos’n’Andy were in 1931. It’s now 2011.

  • Richard Willmer

    Another Hitler-Bahati parallel: Nazi propaganda often used falsely to portray Jewish men as a threat to young ‘Aryan’ girls; much anti-gay propaganda in UG falsely portrays gay people as a threat to children.

    (This parellel cannot possibly be dismissed using some kind of ‘ethnicity’ argument; the essential common factor is the falsehood.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Another Hitler-Bahati parallel: Nazi propaganda often used falsely to portray Jewish men as a threat to young ‘Aryan’ girls; much anti-gay propaganda in UG falsely portrays

  • Maazi NCO

    The previous post is a mistake. This is the correction:

    Another Hitler-Bahati parallel: Nazi propaganda often used falsely to portray Jewish men as a threat to young ‘Aryan’ girls; much anti-gay propaganda in UG falsely portrays

    This is just gay propaganda as usual. There is absolutely no basis for comparing the dignified Jewish people with sexual deviance. Absolutely no basis. This is just false equivalency.

  • Maazi NCO

    The Bahati Bill is inter alia a classic example of ‘cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face’.

    No, no, no…. you are wrong. This is a classic example of getting rid of a localized cancerous tumor before it mestasises, spreads and infects all the organs of a human body

  • Richard Willmer

    Your first post was no mistake, ‘Maa7i’! (Couldn’t have put it better myself, except that you didn’t quite complete your sentence!)

    Your reference to ‘cancerous tumor’ represents the use of another example of hitlerian language designed to promote hatred against a minority group. Even Museveni has wisely stopped using such inflammatory invective and now admits that ‘homosexuality’ is no ‘western import’, but ‘an African reality’ (just as it is an American, European, Asia and Antipodean reality).

  • Richard Willmer

    Anyway, you completely missed the point of my post.

    The comparison I offered had nothing to do with ethnicity. The point was this: just as the Nazis lied about Jews, so Bahati and his cronies lie about gays. Both sets of lies had/have the same purpose: to justify repression and/or murder.

  • Richard Willmer

    There are some interesting ‘subtexts’ in this article: http://allafrica.com/stories/201112221057.html

    Here’s another interesting article: http://www.salon.com/2011/12/22/religious_leaders_battle_african_homophobia/singleton/

    From the article: “… is one of a small but growing group of African religious leaders who have taken great personal and professional hits for supporting LGBT rights. For their efforts, they have faced violence, professional alienation and social ostricization. Yet these straight men and women, primarily Christian clergy, continue to criticize the intensifying vitriol and violence against gay Africans.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Jamacia, the new Uganda?

    Full page ad by Exodus in the Sunday edition of Trinidad’s leading newspaper.

    “That Jamaican advertisement was followed up by a symposium Dec. 10 organized by the Lawyers’ Christian Fellowship and attended by many leading Jamaicans, including two judges of Jamaica’s Supreme Court and the Attorney General, and with American and British Christianist speakers. ”

    http://sdgln.com/news/2011/12/22/widely-discredited-ex-gay-movement-exported-caribbean

    Side note, I no longer see block quote or italics or bold as editing options. I no longer see any editing options. Does anybody else have this problem?

  • anteros

    buturo made a televised press statement today… his statement was not about gender based violence, corruption, child sexual abuse, human sacrifice, tribalism or anything else you’d hope to hear in a press statement from a former minister of ethics and integrity. his press statement was a plea to fight homosexuality. wow. who knows, he might just get the bill passed during his forced early retirement… surely he has more sway on bahati’s bill after losing his parliamentary seat and getting fired from his job as minister of ethics and integrity?

  • anteros

    reminds me a bit of christmas 2009 when all news bulletins and newspapers were completely dominated by the national debate on bahati’s bill… according to maazi, our parliament is yet to debate the bill… quite a stale debate if you ask me. maybe the parliamentary debate on the bill hasn’t yet received clearance from parliament’s current affairs committee which is still processing more pressing issues from 2008?

  • Maazi NCO

    From the article: “… is one of a small but growing group of African religious leaders who have taken great personal and professional hits for supporting LGBT rights. For their efforts, they have faced violence, professional alienation and social ostricization. Yet these straight men and women, primarily Christian clergy, continue to criticize the intensifying vitriol and violence against gay Africans.“

    So a bunch of “african religious leaders” who spend their time touring United States and Europe are making a difference ???? C’mon !!! More like they are enjoying being the centre of attention in the Western world. Nobody in our neck of the woods listens to these Western NGO-controlled “religious leaders”. These “leaders” may be superstars in the Western world and Gay Planet, but over here nobody takes them seriously. :D

  • Maazi NCO

    On a lighter note, the Nigerians took a break from commenting on their same-sex marriage prohibition bill to say wonderful things about the electric car built in our own Makarere University

    http://allafrica.com/stories/201112160937.html

  • anteros

    the way some people go on about “the western world”… you’d think these complainants were humanoid aliens from another galaxy with an inferiority complex from hell – a species straight outta men in black.

  • anteros

    buturo has again proved the point that ugandan politicians need to set better priorities for the country… maybe they will copy notes from the donor nations that received a lecture from museveni on setting better priorities.

  • Richard Willmer

    ‘Maazi NCO’

    People take them seriously enough to firebomb their homes and threaten them with violence.

    I notice that you have condemned neither the violence shown against peaceful dissenters nor the lies told by Bahati. Does this mean that you approve of these things? (And if you do approve, it may well be time for us to take the political opposition in UG rather less seriously than we currently do.)

  • Richard Willmer

    Bahati Bill mentioned in this report: http://eastafricanewspost.com/index.php/east-africa-politics/489-uganda-legislators-plan-busy-christmas

    Big irony: mentioned along with it is the Prevention of Torture Bill … so it looks like both pro- and anti-torture bills are on the menu for next February!

  • stephen

    SG.

    The Jamaica situation is tragic. My husband grew up there. We visited some years ago and found a wonderful island. Flying fish skittering ahead of the ship. Magical light on Port Royale, once known as the San Francisco of its day: a place where gay men could live openly. Where the pirate tradition allowed for gay romance and marriage. Noel Coward lived on the island. Errol Flynn built the first 1st world hotel. No one had any trouble dealing with gay people till the Americans arrived. First the IMF stripped the local farmers of their means of livelihood by insisting that all food be imported and then the evangelicals used their ‘outreach’ as a fund-raiser in the States to fund their McMansions and private jets.

    It’s a beautiful island. With an extraordinary history. When we were there we attended a revival that combined African and Anglican elements into a unique ritual: hundreds of women chanting, making a coil into a central space where, perhaps, a sacrificial animal would have been. The island was a refuge for sephardic Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal in the 1600s. My husband is a Jew. One of my husband’s oldest friends is a woman whose father was a great man locally. I went with her up to the Cockpit Country but we couldn’t get there, the roads stopped, she didn’t dare, I didn’t push. And the people are so beautiful, graceful and generous.

    If you don’t know, Africans in Jamaica mounted a very successful rebellion that secured for them a portion of the island known as the Cockpits. On the north coast. The insurgents were led by a woman known as Nanny (a term of respect) and their HQ was known as Nannytown. It still exists. The Maroons, as they are known, are quite distinct from other Jamaicans.

    Now the rich and dynamic history of Jamaica is trampled upon by American evangelicals.

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    Maazi NCO wrote:

    No, no, no…. you are wrong. This is a classic example of getting rid of a localized cancerous tumor before it mestasises, spreads and infects all the organs of a human body

    Is that a direct quote from Mein Kampf or just a paraphrase?

    Don’t think that one can fight against disease without killing the cause, without exterminating the germ; and don’t think that one can fight against racial tuberculosis without taking care that the peoples be freed of the germ of racial tuberculosis. The effect of Judaism will never disappear and the poisoning of the people will not end unless the cause – the Jews – are removed from our presence.

    We’ve heard your words before, Maazi. Auf Deutsch anyway.

    Denn denken Sie nicht, daß Sie eine Krankheit bekämpfen können, ohne nicht den Erreger zu töten, ohne den Bazillus zu vernichten, und denken Sie nicht, daß Sie die Rassentuberkulose bekämpfen können, ohne zu sorgen, daß das Volk frei wird von dem Erreger der Rassentuberkulose. Das Wirken des Judentums wird neimals vergehen, und die Vergiftung des Volkes nicht enden, solange nicht der Erreger, der Juden, aus unserer Mitte entfernt ist.’ Jäckel/Kuhn (eds.), Hitler, Aufzeichnungen, No. 129 (BAB, NS 11/28).

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Zoe

    Another point that really interests me is that, given that he is an opposition politician, why ‘Maazi’ is not absolutely appalled by the perpetration of violence against people who are engaging in peaceful (and perfectly legal – at least as long as the Bahati Bill remains ‘on the shelf’, and maybe thereafter as well**) dissent.

    **These (straight) clergy are not ‘promoting’ anything; they are peacefully opposing violence and hate speech.

    Thank you for those quotes. The point is made most forcibly.

  • Richard Willmer

    (Sorry about the bad syntax in line 1: an extra ‘that’ got in there. But I think the meaning is clear.)

  • Maazi NCO

    No, no, no…. you are wrong. This is a classic example of getting rid of a localized cancerous tumor before it mestasises, spreads and infects all the organs of a human body

    Is that a direct quote from Mein Kampf or just a paraphrase?

    Zoe,

    Ugandans (and by extension, most Africans) are immune to this kind of gay propaganda. I have already told your friend Richard that such propagandist attempts to create false equivalence between the dignified Jewish people and sexual deviance will not be accepted here in our own neck of the woods.

    Like other forms of sexually deviant behaviours, gayism will never be granted space here to grow and bloom. No amount of pro-gay propaganda will change that. You can scream Nazi, Nazi, Nazi….from morning till night, but gayism will remain prohibited, shunned by society and legislated against throughout Africa.

  • Maazi NCO

    Another point that really interests me is that, given that he is an opposition politician, why ‘Maazi’ is not absolutely appalled by the perpetration of violence against people who are engaging in peaceful (and perfectly legal – at least as long as the Bahati Bill remains ‘on the shelf’, and maybe thereafter as well**) dissent.

    What violence??? The one cooked up by the domestic puppets of the Euro-American Gay Propagandist Lobby??? Gayism is deviant, abhorrent and transparently insane behaviour. This behaviour does violence to African culture and can do more violent damage to public health since gay sex is the most efficient way of spreading HIV/AIDS disease.

  • Richard Willmer

    Playing politics with HIV again, I see. HIV is essentially a heterosexual problem in Uganda.

    Driving groups of people ‘underground’, and driving away foreign aid, NGOs and charities, could do terrible things to ‘public health’ in Uganda.

    I see that ‘Maazi’ appears to think that violence and criminal damage are OK, as long as it is directed at people he doesn’t agree with. More ‘unAfrican non-values’ from that allegedly quintessential African, ‘Maazi NCO’? (Most Africans I now would not like to be associated with the idea that it is OK to burn down people’s houses because those people say something with which one might not entirely agree.)

  • stephen

    WT. Maazi should be blocked. I didn’t think so before but now I do. To allow him to post here looks to me like vanity on your part. Revelling in your broadmindedness. If he were writing about Jews in the same terms you would not permit his filth on your personal site. Don’t think that in 10 years this won’t come back to haunt you.

    Did we all see the fine op ed by Frank Mugisha in the New York Times? No? . There you go. I hope that works. I can never make a good link here. Otherwise google

  • stephen

    Uganda law: English.

    Uganda religion: English.

    Uganda language: duh.

    Uganda economy: created by investments from Europe and the US.

    Uganda society: created by charity from the West.

  • http://aebrain.blogspot.com Zoe Brain

    Maazi, you don’t get it.

    It wasn’t that the extermination of Jews was wrong merely because they were Jews. It’s that extermination camps are wrong.

    I think I see now how Rwanda came about. It’s not that you have objections to genocide – you cheer it when a political, religious, ethic or other group you don’t approve of is being exterminated.

    What perverse education system produced such as you? Intelligent, articulate, and in this area, a moral vacuum? The kind of people who ran the State Research Bureau?

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Stephen

    I think that many of UG’s current problems, including the kind ‘bahitlerite thinking’ espoused by ‘Maazi’, can be traced back to damage caused by colonialism.

  • anteros

    Richard, you may be correct but Uganda got its independence in 1962 – that’s a long time ago and while colonialism may have affected the country profoundly (for example many of our outdated inherited laws), I think that as an old country Uganda needs to take full responsibility for its current issues. There are countries that were more affected by colonialism and others that got their independence after Uganda that have moved on and made the kind of progress Uganda would need a miracle to achieve. I get irked when I hear Ugandans moaning about colonialism when the country relies on infrastructure from the colonial era which it has failed to maintain, and then they claim that aid is a tool of neocolonialism as though there were heaps of aid-free achievements for Uganda to brag about. Looking at Uganda today, it hurts when one compares what is with what could be and what should be… and then there’s all the hype about oil as if oil will automatically solve governance issues while the country wastes months focusing on anti-homosexuality and sugar as priorities, meanwhile shady oil deals are signed and corruption hits new peaks every day at the expense of what belongs to taxpayers – the most basic being infrastructure, health care, and education. In my humble opinion, increasing fundamentalism in its different forms (mainly religious, “cultural”, and political) is more to blame for the persistence of Uganda’s issues than colonialism.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Does anyone know *why* Maazi NCO is so full of hate for sexual minorities? The way he writes is so *unreal* is the only word I can come up with. It appears that he is fully consumed with hatred, where does it come from? Why the hatred?

    Surely he is educated and can see plenty of perfectly, I don’t know what is a good word, *decent* public figures who are a sexual minority. Isn’t the Prime Minister of Belgium gay? There are to many out sexual minorities for him to not have noticed. His hatred can’t be coming from ignorance, so where does it come from? It is a mystery to me how anyone can hate another person like that and not even know the person.

  • anteros

    StraightGrandmother, that’s an example of the fundamentalism I mentioned – it’s raw intolerance – Uganda has so much diversity, but maazi’s intolerance towards homosexuals is nothing special in Uganda… just as there is growing intolerance towards religious minorities (i’ve heard fundamentalist christians – a growing majority in Uganda – saying really hateful stuff about muslims, hindus, baha’is, catholics, atheists and others, even on radio and television) and between ethnic groups (most Ugandans will say hateful stuff about those of a different ethnicity, both between and within tribes) and between political groups (they say hateful stuff about each othe all the time, we see riots and unreasonable crackdowns as a result)… they say hateful and insensitive stuff about people living with hiv, people living with disabilities, people living with mental illness, people of asian descent… women get more than their fair share of hate, especially feminists, sex workers, those that “dress less”… basically, any Ugandan who falls into some kind of minority or disenfranchised group know the kind of hate they experience every day. Many of those who suffer some form of intolerance often respond by hating another less powerful group rather than working towards equality. Many Ugandans speak about sex workers and homosexuals as though they were sub-human or demonoid. Even though fundamentalism is growing fast and seems to pose a serious threat to the country’s future, more Ugandans are learning to appreciate the value of tolerance towards each other.

  • Maazi NCO

    Uganda law: English.

    Uganda religion: English.

    Uganda language: duh.

    Uganda economy: created by investments from Europe and the US.

    Uganda society: created by charity from the West.

    Aah !! You are trying to mimic your Republican party friend Newt Gringich who claimed that Palestinians are invented people !!! Let me tell you Ugandans were not invented by anybody. : D

  • Maazi NCO

    Does anyone know *why* Maazi NCO is so full of hate for sexual minorities? The way he writes is so *unreal* is the only word I can come up with. It appears that he is fully consumed with hatred, where does it come from? Why the hatred?

    Nope !! I don’t recognize anything called “sexual minorities”. I am also dead-set against legalizing drug use and prostitution in Uganda as is the case in Netherlands. Does that mean I hate prostitutes and drug addicts? Gayism is a sex crime in Uganda and the law must be respected and reviewed whenever parliament sees fit

  • Maazi NCO

    Isn’t the Prime Minister of Belgium gay?

    How is this relevant to Uganda? Perhaps, I should say hurray !!! that Belgium now has a national government after more than 12 months of in-fighting among that nation’s political elite. Perhaps, Anteros should move to Belgium. May be he will get to be the first gay King of Belgium? eh?

    Anyway, this piece of information on the sodomy-loving Prime Minister is irrelevant to Ugandans in particular and Africans in general. Who cares if the Belgians decide to appoint a necrophiliac, gay sex practitioner or bestialist as their leader? This is a matter for Belgians and Belgians alone. Nothing to do with us !!!

  • Maazi NCO

    Many Ugandans speak about sex workers and homosexuals as though they were sub-human or demonoid.

    @Anteros—

    Nope !! Most Ugandans say that gayism and prostitution are crimes and those who engage in them are not only spreading diseases around, they are also doing violence to the law of the land.

    I think that many of UG’s current problems, including the kind ‘bahitlerite thinking’ espoused by ‘Maazi’, can be traced back to damage caused by colonialism.

    Oh yes, how can I forget….Before colonialism, Africa was one happy “country of gayism lovers”. Africans embraced and promoted gayism with songs and folklore until the evil super-smart European colonialists brainwashed the Africans to hate gayism. Oh yes….wonderful history (according to gay sex propagandists)..

  • Maazi NCO

    WT. Maazi should be blocked. I didn’t think so before but now I do.

    @Stephen—-

    You are funny guy. You just got off practically calling us an “invented people” like your best friend Newt Gringich and then have effrontery to call for my censorship? You must understand that I know your type very well. Gayism will never be allowed to take root in Uganda. All your powers of blackmail, intimidation and censorship which you and your gay lobbyist friends regularly apply on your fellow compatriots who disagree with gayism in USA is “frustratingly useless” over here in Uganda. Regardless of whether Doc Warren accepts your gay command or not, the sovereign parliament of Uganda will never allow you and your foreign government backers to exercise veto power over us. No that will never happen. Not while we are in positions of authority over here.

  • Maazi NCO

    Uganda has so much diversity, but maazi’s intolerance towards homosexuals is nothing special in Uganda… just as there is growing intolerance towards religious minorities (i’ve heard fundamentalist christians – a growing majority in Uganda – saying really hateful stuff about muslims, hindus, baha’is, catholics, atheists and others, even on radio and television) and between ethnic groups (most Ugandans will say hateful stuff about those of a different ethnicity, both between and within tribes)

    Gay propaganda….There are some tensions among the ethnicities, races and different religions, but things are certainly better than they were decades ago and we now have Ugandan asians who have run for parliament as independents or political party politicians and have won those elections based on ballots cast by Black African Ugandans. Gayism is nobody’s identity in Uganda. If you want to have gayism as a fully recognized and protected pseudo-ethnic identity then move to United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa or Europe.

  • Richard Willmer

    Just about anything that ‘Maazi’ doesn’t agree with is blithely dismissed as ‘gay propaganda’. Even when his own words are quoted, but he wishes that he hadn’t been, it’s ‘gay propaganda’ (I will cite once again the time he was trying to deceive people about the true nature of the Bahati Bill when he said this in December 2009: “[c]ontrary to Western media propaganda, [g]ays who keep their heads down and do their stuff privately will be left alone …”).

  • Richard Willmer

    And I do think Stephen has a point: on the whole, ‘Maazi’ has nothing new to say (it’s basically just the same old nasty rhetoric churned out time and again).

    It is also highly distasteful that he should be allowed to continue to threaten and insult people like Anteros from behind a pseudonym. Obviously, as long as his invective on this blog is not likely to promote hatred (and its self-defeating nature makes that unlikely in my view), I defend his ‘right’ to behave in such a cowardly and dishonest manner; but others’ sensibilities are important as well.

  • Richard Willmer

    I wish to modify my comment above: please remove the words “be allowed to” in line 1 of para. 2 above. (What is ‘highly distasteful’ is ‘Maazi’s’ behaviour, and not that he ‘be allowed to’ behave in this way; my original form of words implies distasteful actions on Warren’s part – a notion I did NOT mean to convey.)

  • Maazi NCO

    Richard—You, Stephen, Jay Huck, Tim Kincaid and the rest of your gay crew (including the pseudonymous “Anteros”) also have nothing new to contribute to the discourse. All of you regurgitate the same gay propaganda lines, blackmail and threats over and over and over again. Each time you hope it will produce a different outcome. The fact is simple—Uganda is a sovereign country and no foreign nation or lobby group will get to exercise veto power over its parliament. It is quite simple. Nothing you lot say will change that. Gayism will never be allowed to take root in our neck of the woods.

  • Richard Willmer

    That’s a matter of opinion, ‘Maazi’.

    Noone on this page has ever threatened to cause you harm. All we’ve really done is pointed out when you’ve lied or threatened someone else.

    We don’t make crass generalizations about Ugandans; rather we highlight the savagery of particular individuals, usually citing evidence (often the aforementioned individuals’ own words) for our contentions.

    Regarding what happens next with Bahati’s Murder Bill: I suspect much will depend on how the current power struggle between the Parliament and the Executive plays out. Given the international implications of Bahati’s proposed killing spree, it is hardly surprising that many other countries are taking a close interest.

    Our position is essentially ‘defensive’; you are the aggressor.

    Who’s blackmailing you, by the way – and why?

  • anteros

    According to this news report:

    http://www.monitor.co.ug/News/National/-/688334/1298194/-/bfi0yuz/-/index.html

    President Museveni has summoned all NRM MPs to a two-week long retreat at the National Leadership Institute, Kyankwanzi.

    The text message invitation was sent by NRM Deputy Chief Whip David Bahati. According to sources, other issues on the agenda will include among others party discipline, cohesion within the party and generating consensus on contentious issues in parliament.

    “generating consensus on contentious issues in parliament”… that couldn’t be referring to passing bahati’s bill, could it? i mean, if parliament has been unanimously bent on passing bahati’s bill urgently since it was introduced in October 2009 then surely it doesn’t qualify as a “contentious issue” deserving attention at an NRM caucus?

  • Richard Willmer

    There are strong reservations about the Bahati Bill within the NRM (I know of at least one member of the NRM NEC who is staunchly opposed to the Bill in its entirety); at least two leading opposition politicians are strongly against the Bill, and would much prefer law enforcements agencies to deal with genuine crimes (such as murder, rape, robbery and child abuse), rather than wasting time and resources hounding people in consensual same-sex relationships.

    I suspect that the President himself has come to see the Bill as being ‘more trouble than it’s worth’. He’s no fan of ‘gay rights’, to be sure, but there’s a huge difference between ‘not approving’ of consensual same-sex relationships (and thus not legislating for things like ‘gay marriage’) and what is being proposed by the bahatite extremists.

    It cannot be pointed out too often that ‘the West’s’ line on all this is not that places like Uganda should embrace things like ‘gay marriage’ and ‘gay adoption’; rather it is essentially about not penalizing and/or persecuting gay people simply because they are gay. The advent of the Bahati Bill has resulted in a much stronger line by the US, the EU and others on the issues both of decriminalization of consensual sexual relations and of the murder and abuse of gay people by violent and criminal elements in those societies where such murder and abuse regularly takes place, especially when those ‘elements’ are sanctioned by the state.


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