Ron Paul touts endorsement of pastor who defends death penalty for gays, delinquent children & adultery

Phillip Kayser is pastor of the Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha, Nebraska, just across the border from Iowa. Yesterday, Rev. Kayser endorsed Ron Paul for President.  The Paul campaign clearly welcomed the endorsement calling Kayser an “eminent pastor.” Ron Paul’s Iowa Chairman, Drew Ivers, commended Kayser’s view of Paul’s approach to government, saying

“We welcome Rev. Kayser’s endorsement and the enlightening statements he makes on how Ron Paul’s approach to government is consistent with Christian beliefs.  We’re thankful for the thoughtfulness with which he makes his endorsement and hope his endorsement and others like it make a strong top-three showing in the caucus more likely,” said Ron Paul 2012 Iowa Chairman Drew Ivers.

Dr. Kayser has degrees in education, theology and philosophy/ethics.  He is the author of over 40 books and booklets.  The name of one organization that he founded describes well his ministry: Biblical Blueprints.  His passion is to see the comprehensive blueprints of the Scriptures applied to science, civil government, education, art, history, economics, business, and every area of life.

For his part, Kayser said he had some disagreements with Paul but endorsed Paul due to Paul’s views on limited government, non-intervention abroad and civics. Kayser said Paul’s view of civics is “far closer to Biblical civics than any of the other candidate’s…”

Kayser’s endorsement and the Paul campaign’s response (“…how Ron Paul’s approach to government is consistent with Christian beliefs”) is of note because what Kayser believes about government. It appears that Kayser is a Christian reconstructionist (see this post about their views) who believes that the penalties associated with Mosaic law should be implemented today. Also, known as theonomy, the adherents generally believe biblical rules should be promoted by Christians in politics and implemented by legislation.

Kayser’s work is promoted on the website Theonomy Resources which is run by Stephen Halbrook. I wrote about Halbrook’s book on biblical law here and noted that he promoted the idea that homosexuality, adultery, idolatry and rebellion in children should be considered capital offenses today (see What would dominionists do with gays? Part 3).

In his own writing, Kayser has similar views. In defense of the death penalty, he writes:

Whereas Hebrews 2:2 gives a blanket endorsement of all Old Testament penology as justice, the rest of the New Testament gives specifics. It teaches that homosexuals who come out of the closet are “worthy of death” (Rom. 1:32). It teaches that juvenile delinquents who abuse their parents can in certain circumstances “be put to death” (Mt. 15:3-9) and that rejection of this provision was to “transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition” (v. 3).

Kayser nuances his teaching somewhat by saying the death penalty is not required by the Old Testament, but instead may be implemented by the state if parents press charges.

Would the church of today receive the same scathing denunciation because we do not want the state to enforce this law? In America we have juvenile delinquents who threaten their parents, abuse their parents and keep their parents in constant fear. There should be some provision where this could be stopped. Keep in mind that in the Old Testament the parents couldn’t put their children to death, only the state could. On the other hand, the state couldn’t put them to death unless the parents testified against them. And there are many other checks and balances in Biblical jurisprudence that are outlined in Appendix A. But Christ gives no indication that this commandment has been annulled. Instead, he reproves those who would seek to annul it.

Regarding gays, Kayser’s vision for a nation being restored to biblical law allows for a variety of responses:

For example, in a society that was being converted, homosexuals could continue to be converted as they were in the church of Corinth. Even after a society implemented Biblical law and made homosexuality a crime, there are many checks and balances that would be in place. (See Appendix A page 40 for specifics.) The civil government could not round them up. Only those who were prosecuted by citizens could be punished, and the punishment could take a number of forms, including death. This would have a tendency of driving homosexuals back into their closets. (p. 24)

I don’t know if Ron Paul believes this way or not, but Rev. Kayser and the Paul campaign certainly seem to endorse each other on their views of government. I think Rep. Paul should be asked if he would support the right of a state to implement such a system. If he is consistent with his past writings and current endorsers, I don’t know on what basis he would believe that a federal court could overturn laws recriminalizing homosexuality.

Adultery is also listed by Kayser as a potential capital crime. Um, Newt…

UPDATE: Phillip Kayser’s endorsement has been scrubbed from Ron Paul’s website.

Related:

What Does Ron Paul Really Believe About Gays?

What do Dan Savage and AFTAH’s Mike Heath have in common?

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  • StraightGrandmother

    Well FWIW it does not look like that Dominion Covenant Church in Omaha is much of anything. If you look at Google Maps, satellite and street view it is in a residential neighborhood and look like it is simply a converted large home. Is this church that influential?

  • StraightGrandmother

    They are coming out of the woodwork now, see Bachman & Santorum’s latest endorsements, this is really kookie

    http://www.goodasyou.org/good_as_you/2011/12/bachmannsantorum-ticket-will-thwart-devil-devil-looks-at-polls-rests-easily.html

    I like the Good As You website.

  • StraightGrandmother

    I didn’t think it was legal for a church to back a candidate. Individual Pastors can but not speaking on behalf of their church. I think the rule is they can’t preach it from the pulpit? I am a little fuzzy on this exact law but take a look at this

    “VOTE FOR MICHELE BACHMANN OR RICK SANTORUM

    Only two candidates have been bold enough to stand up for God time after time. Like our Founding Fathers, Michele Bachmann and Rick Santorum include God in government, want pro-life laws and uphold God’s marriage of one man and one woman. We call on Christians to vote for:

    - Michelle Bachmann, or

    - Rick Santorum”

    http://www.usachristianministries.com/2011/12/22/who-is-the-most-god-fearing-presidential-candidate/

  • David

    Everything that Rev. Kayser advocates is based on the Bible. The Bible authorizes the death penalty for various types of misconduct. No Christian has any basis to object morally to the death penalty as applied in these circumstances, because the Word of God says that it is good. Although you could argue that a Christian nation isn’t required to implement these penalties, there is no way for a Christian to argue that these penalties are evil or wrong. Accept the Bible and its teaching of the morality of mass homicide.

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  • Fiona Mackenzie

    Whether or not this church is influential or powerful is not the question. The issue is that by adopting its views, Paul indicates that they are also his views–and if he is president, they will guide his administration. THAT will give them power and influence.

  • http://musings.northerngrove.com/ Jarred

    So the difference is whether we have one big bully or fifty smaller bullies? Somehow, I”m not impressed.

    And does Kayser understand what it takes, especially in terms of money and time — to move? His “solution” for people who don’t like harsh Biblical law is a non-starter for that reason alone.

  • Fiona Mackenzie

    I can’t take in comments by people here who endorse these sick, vicious, cruel and stupid viewpoints because they are in the bible. These are the reasons, folks, that it is essential for a nation to have strict separation of church and state; since we lost it, our country is in a morass of moral and ethical filth.

    When religion mucks in government, its contribution is interpretation by unelected, unvetted charismatic leaders of selected passages from an old book of unknown origin, without basis in law or fact. The outcome throughout history has been horrendously, brutally inequitable. This is, of course, why the founding fathers separated the two in the FIRST Amendment, together with the other most important protections for the new nation.

  • Fiona Mackenzie

    Let me point out, in addition, that many of these vicious attacks on innocent people are not even in the bible, are entirely antithetical to the bible–for example, doctrine on abortion, which is part of the historical desire of cults to increase their numbers and is in complete conflict with the bible. Yet because they follow certain people’s opinions rather than law, religious people all over the nation are crying out for law that goes so far as to dictate the death of a pregnant woman before abortion–with no clue at all that this is not christian or judaic or biblical teaching in any sense.

  • Dave

    You may ask him but he would probably say that the state has only those rights enumerated in the constitution, and this would obviously not be one of them. There is nothing about this “touting” anywhere in the media. So did you just make this up? Pathetic.

    • http://wthrockmorton.com Warren

      Dave at 5:05pm – Follow the links; the Paul campaign touted the endorsement on their Iowa page – front and center.

  • Lynn David

    For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Would you have no fear of the one who is in authority? Then do what is good, and you will receive his approval, for he is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword in vain. For he is the servant of God, an avenger who carries out God’s wrath on the wrongdoer. (Romans 13: 3- 4)

    Well it’s right there in the Bible!

    ___________________________

    Warren…. what happened to the tagging tools in the comment boxes?

  • Patrocles

    ” If he is consistent with his past writings and current endorsers, I don’t know on what basis he would believe that a federal court could overturn laws recriminalizing homosexuality.”

    I suppose that, in a democracy, gays will always have to work for a kind of moral agreement in the frame of which accepting homosexuality will be a logical consequence- and to convince their neighbours of it. That’s what democracy is made of.

    If you ask for a system in which gays don’t need any agreement with their neighbours but only the consent of a supreme power, I recommend you a system which will serve you perfectly. It’s called bolshevism.

  • StraightGrandmother

    I’m curious so I go over to Dr. Kayser’s church website and poke around. He’s a real Tea Partier this guy. He puts his sermons on his website (very good audio I might add) additionally his sermons are transcribed into a .pdf file. I’m listening to a couple sermons until I hit on the one that is ALL politics, July 3, 2011. Here are a few snippets, you can read it but I strongly suggest listening

    This is the first words of his sermon,

    “Introduction

    This month I received a very polite letter from Senator Ben Nelson. He was responding to concerns I had about violations of the Bill of Rights by federal agencies that have been seeking to enforce the Patriot Act. In his first two paragraphs he basically said that terrorism necessitates the Patriot Act. But here is what he said in the fourth paragraph:”

    ………

    “Here are some questions that immediately came to my mind: Are these rights inalienable or are they revocable? And if they are revocable, when do we get them back? Are they God-given rights or government-granted privileges? If they are God-given, where does God allow for the retraction of what He has given? Is security more important than freedom? I think those questions should be self- answering. President Thomas Jefferson once said, “Those who surrender freedom for security will not have, nor do they deserve, either one.”

    I’ve titled today’s sermon, “Watch out When State Security Trumps God-Given Rights.” And the Patriot Act is not the only Federal issue in which individual rights are being abridged in the name of safety and stability. FEMA, OSHA, the EPA, and other agencies are increasingly stripping away freedom from citizens and in their place are offering safety and stability. Well – there is a certain degree of safety and stability in slavery, isn’t there?”

    …………

    “You might be considered a conspiratorialist (if you believe that the Federal Reserve should be audited), or “Right Wing Extremist” (if you believe that we should return to the original intent of the constitution), or Anti-Choice (if you are prolife), or Homophobic (if you hold to Biblical values). And of course, they soften their sins by dignifying Sodomites as gays, lechers as free speech advocates, baby-murderers as women’s rights advocates, etc. The more you understand the psychological warfare used by tyrants in redefining terms, the less you will be manipulated by those words.”

    ………………………

    “Saul thinks of himself as being a very generous benefactor in verse 7, giving those who are loyal to him all kinds of benefits. “I’m doing this for your good.” This was proto- socialism; redistribution of wealth. Tyrants think that is being generous, but you can hardly call theft generosity. And socialism is theft. Saul did not give these people money out of his own pocket. That would be generous. Instead, he gave the lands and vineyards of others. The reality was that he was a tyrant who did not think of himself as a servant of the people.”

    ………………………

    You really should listen and read his sermon of July 3, 2011. In this sermon he mentions that next weeks sermon is going to go into even more of this. I have not listened to it yet but I will.

    http://www.dominioncovenantchurch.com/sermons/?sermon_id=356

  • StraightGrandmother

    Dr. Kayser’s follow up sermon July 10, 2011

    This is the first words of this sermon. Noteworthy is that he is a fan of the *American Family Association* Now we all know that the American Family Association is designated a ***HATE GROUP*** by the Southern Poverty Law Center, the preeminent organization that tracks HATE GROUPS like the KKK, White Supremacists etc. But here we see Dr. Kayser promoting them in the very first paragraph of his sermon,

    “Last week we began to apply the discouraging signs of tyranny in Ancient Israel to modern America. But I want to begin today’s sermon by saying that not everything in America is discouraging. God is raising up ministries all over this nation that are doing fantastic things. And I am hoping that this is a sign that God is about to do something great. Another good sign is there is even a nation-wide call to a day of fasting, repentance, and prayer. Governors Rick Perry of Texas and Sam Brownback of Kansas have called for prayer and fasting on Saturday, August 6. And the elders are encouraging us all to be a part of that. The American Family Association is organizing it. Other governors, including Bobby Jindal of Louisiana and Haley Barbour of Mississippi are considering calling their states to a day of prayer and fasting as well. And here is what they say on their website, theresponseusa.com:”

    ………..

    “I’ve included this point in my analysis of a nation because it is symptomatic of centralization. The less local the political decision-making becomes, the more this kind of action tends to take place. And with the massive centralization that has been taking place in Washington, we will be seeing guilt by association becoming the standard. Examples are already present in OSHA, FEMA, and in other agencies. This is one of many reasons to hate socialism and to hate centralization. And this is one of many reasons to be in prayer for our nation.”

    ……

    All such confiscation of weapons was considered to be against the law by the Bible. Far from being treason in the citizenry, it is treason for any state official to disarm the population because he is overturning the Bill of Rights, which he has sworn to uphold. He is perjuring himself. Now these may seem like overly strong words, but examine God’s opinion of Saul and your ideas might change. Even Jesus would not submit to Rome’s prohibition of private citizens having weapons. He commanded his disciples to get swords, and he allowed them to carry swords to Gethsemane. In a later sermon we will examine the important Reformed caveat that a private citizen my not use the sword against the state unless authorized to do so in war by some lawfully ordained government official. The Bible does not advocate revolution. We will get to that at a later time. The key thing here is that weapon-control is not treated as a godly thing by Scripture. It is always a sign of tyranny.”

    …………

    “And this is exactly what Senator Lyndon B. Johnson did in 1954 when he added churches to section 501c3 of the tax code. This crafty enemy of the church withdrew the protection of the Bill of Rights, Article I, with one stroke of the pen. Prior to that law, churches could apply the Scriptures to every area of life. But from that point on many churches stopped doing so, fearing that they would begin to be taxed or worse. Churches were already tax immune based upon Article I of the Bill of Rights. But when they started voluntarily applying to the IRS for 501c3 status (just to make sure that they were tax exempt), they willingly accepted a license that gave them tax exemption so long as they refrained from preaching on certain topics deemed political. I’ve gone through the tax code on this with our church’s attorney, and he agrees with our stance of not applying for 501c3 status and of not getting incorporated. The constitution already protects us. But he agrees that this was a huge overreach of the government.

    The Alliance Defense Fund is seeking to challenge this horrendous invasion of the jurisdiction of the church. On their website they say,”

    ………….

    “This is why we are agreeing with the governors who are calling for a day of fasting, repentance, and prayer. Things are in a desperate state of affairs, and a “conservative candidate” is not going to solve the problem. Conservatives are part of the problem. And I am sick to death of people saying that they are conservative when they violate the constitution. That word has become meaningless. I want a return to God and the Constitution. Our money claims that we still trust in God. So why can’t we return to Him?”

    ……………….

    “and the court cited the 27th chapter of Numbers, to show that their judgment on a common law principle in regard to the law of inheritance, was founded on God’s revelation of that law to Moses.”8 And you read the rest of the judgment and you see that they considered Biblical law to be the foundation of all American common law courts. I could give you similar cases from New York, and other states, and from the Supreme Court, and position papers written by the US Congress from as late as the 1950’s. It is simply not true that we have been a secular nation. The common law mandate of the Constitution is a Biblical law mandate. This is why the Constitution was dated “in the year of our Lord.” Jesus was declared to be the Lord of our nation right in our constitution.”

    …………

    Oh there is so much more. Again I recommend you listen to his sermons as you read the .pdf file of the sermon, found here

    http://www.dominioncovenantchurch.com/sermons/?sermon_id=359

  • Dee Nice

    There is no difference between these people and the Taliban. None whatsoever. Reading this I can understand why the President would’ve signed a defense authorization bill that included provisions that would allow for the indefinite detention of American citizens. Some of these people deserve to be in Guantanamo along with the other extremists housed there

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  • StraightGrandmother

    Here from one of Dr. Kayser’s booklets called, “Getting Christians Back Into Politics”

    “All nations

    The second neglected “all” is that Christ commanded us to make disciples of all the nations. Not just make disciples of a few individuals. The literal Greek reads disciple all nations. There is no genitive. It is the accusative case which means that the nations as nations must be discipled. His goal is a comprehensive vision of victory: Christian nations. Well, that makes perfect sense since we have already seen that He has been given all authority on earth. Go therefore implies that the commission is as extensive as His authority. What does it mean to be a Christian nation? It doesn’t just mean politics will be Christian. The Bible speaks of very limited government – not the massive bureaucracies that many in Washington DC are pushing for. Politics is only a tiny subset of a nation. For a nation to be a Christian nation, art, science, politics, sports, media, entertainment, education – everything must be under Christ’s lordship.”

    http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDUQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.biblicalblueprints.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F01%2FGettingChristiansIntoPolitics.pdf&ei=wKr7ToeyB9Sb8gOz6OGcAQ&usg=AFQjCNEMt0Zlnq4uwkmpLT8WeW2fF7VJ6Q

    I think this enough for me, I know what I need to know about Dr. Kayser.

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  • lisa johnson

    There are others in history who share extremist views: Adolph Hitler, Osama Bin Laden …need I go on. Hey Mr. Kayser WWJD?!

  • carl

    “Ron Paul touts endorsement of pastor who defends death penalty for gays, delinquent children & adultery”

    For sure, not good of Ron Paul.

    Warren, did you write a similar post back in the day, “Barack Obama’s close mentor and pastor for two decades rails against whites” or “Barack Obama’s mentor and close friend a racist” or “Barack Obama and wife attend church that preaches racist theology,” etc. I wasn’t reading you then. Did you? Are these cases of political affiliations in any way similar? Did you stay on Obama’s case?

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  • Richard Willmer

    @ Carl :

    Warren’s focus is on the interplay between human sexuality, religion and politics, so the ‘Obama story’ would not have been strictly relevant to this blog.

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  • Mad_World

    You must have your child so we may kill it.

    God loves you so much he’ll eternally damn you if you break one of his rules…and he needs money.

    What about the big ten? Shouldn’t we kill liars, name in-vainers, the covetous, false witness bearers? Etc first…Homoes didn’t even make that list.

    Maybe Kaiser has a point, kill all people for peace on earth.

    Idiot

  • http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/apostasy-local-church/ billiefan2000 (aka the watchman of omaha)

    I am a christian and I live in Omaha and they are a small church.

    there are churches on the left and right that are on the fringes and have some bizarre stuff,

    but never payed attention or heard of Kayser til now. thanks for bringing him to my attention cause he sounds a bit psycho to say the least.

    and sadly there are NAR type churches in Omaha.

    You have a so called singles ministry called GAME aka Great Adventures Ministries who encouraged their people to go hear Mike Bickle speak this week in KC.

    and then there is HHOP in Council Bluffs and the Hub in Omaha who have NAR agendas and sadly have influence on a number of churches in Omaha.

    but most christians in the Omaha metro area dont seem to give a damn about the bizarre stuff going on in Omaha churches

    all the christian community in Omaha Nebraska and in Lincoln Nebraska also seem to only care about is the stupid the Nebraska Cornhuskers football team

    and that is why I fear the NAR folks and other pressure groups on both sides will take over Omaha Nebraska easily.

    Omaha’s christian community must wake up and speak out against NAR peddlers like Kayser and HHOP in Council Bluffs and the Hub in Omaha

  • http://eventful.com/omaha_ne/events/sunday-morning-service-temp-/E0-001-044619309-5@2012010810 billiefan2000 (aka the watchman of omaha)

    oh, btw:

    http://www.dominioncovenantchurch.com/contact-us/

    says on their website:

    Our Meeting Location

    Dominion Covenant Church holds worship services every Sunday at 9:30 AM

    at the beautiful William H. Thompson Alumni Center of the University of Nebraska at Omaha (UNO), which is located on the southwest corner of the intersection of 67th and Dodge Streets.

    it’s time for the University of Nebraska at Omaha to kick them off their campus

  • Don Craddock

    Poor legalistic people don’t realize that they can not live under the O.T. law and walk in the grace of Christ, thanks for the realization from Bishop Swilley.

  • Richard Willmer

    Mad_World’s comment “you must have your child so we may kill it” resonates with something that many have observed regarding pseudo-pro-lifers who are all ‘for’ the rights of the unborn child (I have no problem with respecting the rights of the unborn child as well a those of its parents, by the way) but seem to lose interest once that child has been born, failing as they do to oppose things like capital punishment, oppressive and exploitative political and economic systems, and unjust discrimination against, for example, minorities – all of which should be matters of profound concern to anyone who purports to be ‘pro-life’.

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  • carl

    “you must have your child so we may kill it” resonates with something that many have observed regarding pseudo-pro-lifers who are all ‘for’ the rights of the unborn child (I have no problem with respecting the rights of the unborn child as well a those of its parents, by the way) but seem to lose interest once that child has been born, failing as they do to oppose things like capital punishment, oppressive and exploitative political and economic systems, and unjust discrimination against, for example, minorities – all of which should be matters of profound concern to anyone who purports to be ‘pro-life’.

    Lots of unsubstantiated points you make here.

    First, personal experience tells me there are plenty of Americans who are anti-abortion and anti-capital punishiment. Second, personal experience tells me there are plenty of Americans who are anti-abortion and pro-capital punishment because in one case the subject is a complete innocent and in the other the subject has been proven to be a menace to innocents.

    I suppose you think all the young teens and their sponsors who spend years washing windows and cars and devoting hours on end to other fund raisers in order to raise enough money to enable them to go to poor countries and do things like build homes for the povery-stricken are promoting oppressive political and economic systems? Yeah, that kind of behavior occurs among the “peudo pro-lifers” huh? I mean, you don’t seem to point out that most people don’t do a darn thing to help out the underprivileged by devoting their own hard work.

    Churches are often the first to offer help to “those with child” and no means of support. What, you want an uncaring state to do that?

    You need to get your head out of your you know what. Your comment speaks of a bitterness that is affecting your vision.

  • Richard Willmer

    I never said there weren’t ‘genuine’ pro-lifers, Carl! My comment referred to those who appear to be obsessed with only certain matters.

    On this very blog, I have referred to Church teaching on matters such as capital punishment and social justice. (The US Catholic bishops are opposed to the death penalty, and the last Papal Encyclical dealt at length with issues of social justice – and I have made reference to both … on more than one occasion.)

    With respect, Carl, I think you ‘read into’ my comment things that were not there, and somewhat overreacted.

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  • http://eventful.com/omaha_ne/events/sunday-morning-worship-serv-/E0-001-044714991-2@2012010811 billiefan2000 (aka watchman of omaha)

    btw:

    not one pastor in omaha will condemn kayser’s statements cause

    even the leftist pastors in Omaha like Eric Elnes and Jane Florence and the leaders at Christ Community Church of Omaha

    is too cowardly in omaha to call out the NAR peddlers.

    I am btw conservative/moderate when it comes to issues,

    but I am guess a liberal compared to Kayser and the NAR nutjobs

  • carl

    “With respect, Carl, I think you ‘read into’ my comment things that were not there, and somewhat overreacted.”

    Your first comment showed NO respect. That is what prompted my reply.

  • Richard Willmer

    Did it upset you, Carl? Why was that?

    (As I said, I think you made various assumptions about what I was saying and to whom I was referring.)

  • Richard Willmer

    @ billiefan2000

    I suspect much of the ‘silence’ that you rightly bemoan is the result of fear – fear of ‘breaking ranks’ and being labelled ‘heretical’, for example.

    There is something very totalitarian about the kind of extremist ‘religio-political’ approach that Kayser appears to espouse.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Well those other decent Pastors in Omaha SHOULD speak up and renounce Dr. Kayser. What is that called, a conspiracy of silence?

  • http://eventful.com/omaha_ne/events/sunday-morning-service-temp-/E0-001-044619309-5@2012010810 billiefan2000 aka the watchman of omaha

    straight, it is simple,

    pressure groups on both the left and right run the churches in omaha and therefore there is a conspiracy of silence

    when it comes to outrageous things said by pastors or church leaders on either side.

    if Kayser slammed the huskers, most pastors on both sides would be up in arms, but since it aint Nebraska Cornhusker Football team related

    most pastors in Omaha Nebraska could care less what Kayser said and therefore dont have a backbone to speak out.

    that and fear of the pressure groups on both the left and right is what scares pastors in Omaha from having a backbone

    and calling out false teachers like the NAR movement and the NAR Pope from KC aka Mike Bickle

    and legalist pastors like Kayser

  • http://eventful.com/omaha_ne/events/sunday-morning-service-temp-/E0-001-044619309-5@2012010810 billiefan2000 aka the watchman of omaha

    btw:

    there are good churches in omaha like one I go to sometimes who has spoken out on folks like Harold Camping and Robert Schuller and the IHOP folks

    and there are others who do speak out on false teachers or legalists like Kayser and Kayser’s hero Mike Bickle

    but the ones that do teach discernment and call out false teachers in omaha are relatively small and not very well known or influential churches

    it is the big ones in omaha area who should be speaking out on folks like Kayser and Bickle cause they would be heard

    but alas, we let pressure groups and fear run many churches in omaha area

  • StraightGrandmother

    I agree with you billiefan. What is the names of a couple big churches, I will e-mail them and ask them to do so.

  • http://www.raptureforums.com/forum/apostasy-local-church/ billiefan2000 aka the watchman of omaha

    here’s a small list of big churches

    westside church of omaha

    lifegat church of omaha

    christ community church of omaha

    brookside church of omaha

    stonebridge christian church of omaha

    westwood church of omaha

    st. andrews umc of omaha

    glad tidings church of omaha

    countryside community church of omaha (a liberal UCC church)

    first central congregational church of omaha (a liberal UCC church)

    Augustana Lutheran Church of omaha (a liberal ELCA church)

    are just a few churches in omaha that should be calling out Kayser

    btw: the local media isnt event mentioning this story.

    why is that Omaha world herald

    and KETV channel 7 and WOWT channel 6 and KMTV channel 3

  • carl

    Richard, no, I made no assumptions about what you wrote.

    Re-read your statement. It says, literally, that not opposing capital punishment demonstrates a lack of interest in the born child on the part of pro-lifers. To do so makes them, in your eyes, “pseudo pro-lifers.” Your words: “failing as they do to oppose things like capital punishment.”

    It says, they fail to show interest in the born child by not opposing “oppressive and exploitative political and economic systems, and unjust discrimination against, for example, minorities….” Talk about a broad brush. Got stats on that? The statement is so broad as to be meaningless, blowing smoke, but useful for verbal attack. as long as you are not trying to persuade anyone. It’s useful for those of a like mind, for bonding, I suppose. Not useful on a blog that wishes to invite thinkers.

    Or maybe you’re just a poor writer.

  • Richard Willmer

    So you disagree with me, Carl. That’s OK – I don’t have a problem with that.

  • Richard Willmer

    Or rather, you disagree with the way in which I expressed my view, perhaps.

  • carl

    Which is it, Richard? Did you say what you meant to say? If so, yes, I disagree with it vehemently.

    Or, did you express yourself poorly, your sentences not constructed so as to say what you meant to say? If so, then say that, and I will understand.

    You can’t have it both ways. That is, your posts of 1:16 pm and 2:01 pm cannot logically co-exist.

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  • StraightGrandmother

    Carl, I was dragged into a similar situation as you and Richard and it is actually more enjoyable to sometimes let it drop even though you feel you have more to say. Somebody has to be the one to give up on having the last word. You have made your point and so has Richard, you both seem like swell guys, I am interested in your point of view regarding Ron Paul :)

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  • Richard Willmer

    Perhaps I could have been more explicit regarding to whom it was that I was referring: my comment was ‘aimed’ religious/political demagogues who cite a ‘pro-life’ or ‘christian’ position to back their declared views on things like ‘homosexuality’, not ordinary folk who organize fundraisers etc.

  • Richard Willmer

    Moving on, perhaps: I was ‘stuck at my computer’ for much of yesterday, and, as a kind of ‘relaxation’ between other tasks, looked at clips of Ron Paul expounding his political thesis. I was interested (and not unimpressed) by his emphasis on the importance of ‘localism’; there is no doubt in my mind that there is a very important place for ‘localism’ in the overall mix of politics: much that is useful can be achieved at a local level, and the highly decentralized nature of the US political system can often be enormously helpful in this regard. The UK political system is much more ‘centralized’ – though arguably less so than it used to be – and this lead to a loss of ‘ownership’ when it comes to deciding local matters. For example, I was appalled when a planning decision concerning the expansion into a children’s communal playground of a building in my mother’s home town was taken 80 miles away in Birmingham! Perhaps the ‘trick’ is to get the best possible ‘configuration’ when it comes to what is decided at what level. But I digress …

  • Nancy Irving

    I was looking at the chapter of Matthew that the guy cites, and I notice it also says:

    11Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.

    18But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.

    19For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:

    20These are the things which defile a man…

    Sounds like a pretty clear okay for oral sex to me…

  • http://funfrotfacts.blogspot.com Throbert McGee

    “11 Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man”

    Sounds like a pretty clear okay for oral sex to me…

    Oooh, I see what you did there, you naughty girl!

    But on a more serious note — I’d argue that Christians who condemn “homosexual behavior” based on The-Parts-Don’t-Fit! arguments, while entirely ignoring such spiritual questions as whether the same-sex couple’s relationship is informed by agape, are violating the spirit of Jesus’s words in Matt. 15:11.

    Or, to borrow from Paul in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, if two homosexual men or women have a love that is patient and kind; that is not envious or selfish; that is slow to anger; that protects and perseveres — if the same-sex couple has such love between them, then by what hocus-pocus can it become evil just because they have the same genitalia?

  • http://www.countrysideucc.org Pastor Eric

    Hello, all. I am one of the ministers at one of the churches mentioned previously (Countryside Community Church). Regarding “not speaking out” about Rev. Kayser and his views on homosexuality: I just learned of his existence two hours ago when someone shot me an email after seeing my name mentioned on this site. I think very few of us have been aware of his existence. However, quite a number of us have spoken out against discrimination against LGBT persons. Check out the Heartland Proclamation, for instance, which has been signed by over 250 Christian clergy from Heartland states: http://www.heartlandproclamation.org.

    Also, after viewing Rev. Kayser’s website, I note that his church practices “L’Abri-style” teaching. L’Abri’s founder was Francis Schaeffer, who provided much of the intellectual architecture of the Christian fundamentalism’s rise in the late 70s and 80s. His son, Frank Schaeffer, is coming to Omaha on Feb 26th to speak at Countryside Community Church’s Center for Faith Studies (7 pm). Frank now denounces nearly everything he and his family did to grow the fundamentalist movement. If you want to hear a VERY interesting story, come join us! Here’s a link to the event: http://countrysideucc.org/news/center-for-faith-studies-presents-frank-schaeffer/

    May the New Year be more full of the glory of God’s love for ALL people – including Rev. Kayser and others who stand against the very faith and values many of us affirm and embrace.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Pastor Eric, Applause applause to you for responding. Now I challenge you to go even farther. Call up your local press and state your views on camera. Write a Letter to the editor of your newspaper.

    It is great, GREAT, that you visited here and commented, but I urge you to don’t let that be ALL you do. We are talking about the execution of homosexuals by a member of your Faith Community in Omaha. If you won’t stand up now, when will you? He deserves NO respect he is not even a 503(c3) as he boasts in his July 10th sermon. Call other Pastors and stand united in condemnation, I strongly urge YOU!!!!

  • StraightGrandmother

    Pastor Eric, I think you should have included the opening text of that website you linked to. Here I will do it for you.-

    “We proclaim the Good News concerning Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender (LGBT) persons and publicly apologize where we have been silent. As disciples of Jesus, who assures us that the truth sets us free, we recognize that the debate is over. The verdict is in. Homosexuality is not a sickness, not a choice, and not a sin. We find no rational biblical or theological basis to condemn or deny the rights of any person based on sexual orientation. Silence by many has allowed political and religious rhetoric to monopolize public perception, creating the impression that there is only one Christian perspective on this issue. Yet we recognize and celebrate that we are far from alone, as Christians, in affirming that LGBT persons are distinctive, holy, and precious gifts to all who struggle to become the family of God.

    In repentance and obedience to the Holy Spirit, we stand in solidarity as those who are committed to work and pray for full acceptance and inclusion of LGBT persons in our churches and in our world. We lament that LGBT persons are condemned and excluded by individuals and institutions, political and religious, who claim to be speaking the truth of Christian teaching. This leads directly and indirectly to intolerance, discrimination, suffering, and even death.”

    http://www.heartlandproclamation.org/

    Hip Hip Horray! Now practice what you preach. Do something in Omaha.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Pastor Eric

    First of all, great to see your contribution to this discussion.

    I would be interested to hear you view on what is the essential problem behind fundamentalist ‘christianity’. Is it a kind of ‘deification’ of the Bible (this ‘the Bible is the Word of God’ business)? Or a chronic fear of uncertainty? Or what?

  • http://www.countrysideucc.org Pastor Eric

    @StraightGrandmother. There are many of us in Omaha who ARE putting our words into action. We’ll be discussing Kayser specifically this next week. But our main efforts have been focused this winter on passing the non-discrimination ordinance that failed to pass in Omaha last year. This will be coming up for a vote in late January. I hope YOU will be there to raise a voice to join us. We are especially in need of Republicans, Catholics, and business owners who will support the non-discrimination ordinance because the City Council appears to be convinced that anyone who fits in any of these categories would be against the ordinance. Write to the Council!

    @Richard. You raise a large question. My short answer (which is way oversimplified) is that the root of the problem is a belief that if you don’t please God in a certain way you will be tortured for all eternity in hell. All sorts of evil (such as biblical literalism) arises from this twisted belief, or is at least motivated by it. I’m not looking to sell books, but I write about this extensively in my book, Asphalt Jesus. You can order it for about 20 bucks on Amazon.com or you (and anyone) can get a free copy as a first-time visitor to Countryside Community Church. Just tell me or any member of the staff that you are a first-timer and we’ll be happy to give you one.

  • StraightGrandmother

    Pastor Eric, Thank YOU, YOU so much!!!

    I am not anywhere near Nebraska or I would be there with you, standing with you. See, those of us who are far away feel so helpless, we do what we can from afar, but it is so much better to have local people take direct action in addition to others outside the community.

    I am so very very grateful to YOU and the other Pastors that you are addressing Dr. Kayuser in your community. You have given me a sense of peace. Again many many Thanks! Peace and Love <3

  • http://www.rightwingwatch.com billiefan2000

    it isnt just calling out Kayser for his hate that has to happen by Omaha churches

    BUT Omaha’s christian community must speak out against the New Apostolic Reformation which breeds the extremist beliefs of folks

    like Kayser and others who promote the NAR agenda

    and national folks like Cindy Jacobs and Mike Bickle and Rick Joyner and James Goll and Lance Wallnau to name a few folks who are part of the NAR movement.

    Kayser is just part of the problem and addressing and speaking out on the NAR problem/agenda that Kayser is part of

    (that is seeping into many churches, including a few in omaha nebraska metro area)

    must be dealt with by christians and churches on both the left and the right.

    the New Apostolic Reformation and “pastors” like Kayser are turning churches from houses of GOD into a den of political ideology and a front for domionism.

    I am not a liberal, but I applaud anyone (conservative or liberal)

    to speak out and stand up to Kayser and others in the New Apostolic Reformation movement

    cause the NAR wants to enslave us all (based on statements) and I think this “Pastor” Kayser ‘s statements

    he has made proves how dangerous he and his fellow NAR folks are for christians on both sides theologically and politcally

    and I think Omaha churches on both sides should speak out against the NAR movement and folks like Kayser who believe in Dominon Theology.

    p.s. have a happy new year everyone

  • Kyle

    Throb:

    I agree: traditional Christians need to do better than “the parts don’t fit.” And they also need to bring in the relationship of this issue to agape love, which is what all of the commandments are aimed at in the end. For that matter, there has to be more to it than “the Bible forbids it.” Short of this, I think traditional Christians are left with an irrational position.

  • Richard Willmer

    @ Pastor Eric

    Thank you for your response. What you say makes sense: to my mind, it points to a kind of ‘contract religion’ (‘sign on the dotted line, do X, Y and Z, and one will escape the fires of hell’) that really has nothing to do with the New and Eternal Covenant.

    I doubt I’d be able to visit CCC, given that I live ‘across the pond’, but I’ll look into your book.

  • ken

    StraightGrandmother# ~ Dec 31, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    “If you won’t stand up now, when will you? He deserves NO respect he is not even a 503(c3) as he boasts in his July 10th sermon. Call other Pastors and stand united in condemnation, I strongly urge YOU!!!!”

    And I would urge you NOT to do any such thing. Rather to keep doing what you have been. Countering what Kayser and others like him do by fighting for equal rights and putting out opposing messages about your faith, to show there are many different perspectives.

    If you go after Kayser (and others like him) directly, you run the risk of having Kayser go from being an obscure pastor nobody (not even people on this blog until a few days ago) heard of, to being the next Fred Phelps. If you name him specifically, you will likely get him media attention and that will give him a bigger platform to spew his nonsense from.

  • Teresa

    Pastor Eric said:

    His son, Frank Schaeffer, is coming to Omaha on Feb 26th to speak at Countryside Community Church’s Center for Faith Studies (7 pm).

    Thank you, Pastor Eric, for including this in your comment. I googled, Frank Schaeffer, and found one of the best hour’s worth of video on CSPAN2, BOOK TV … with Frank Schaeffer talking about his latest book: Sex, Mom, and God.

    The talk was given at an Antiochian Orthodox Church. His life’s journey is simply remarkable. His insight into what’s happening about fundamentalism occurring in most religions is spot-on.

    Thank you again, Pastor Eric, for mentioning Frank Schaeffer. BTW, his mother, Edith Schaeffer, is one remarkable woman …

    For those interested in watching and listening to some uplifting words to start our New Year, here’s the link:

    Sex, Mom, and God

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  • StraightGrandmother

    Theresa, thanks for the tip off on Sex Mom & God. I have not had a chance to listen to it yet but I will in the next few days. I almost always check out everything that people here link to.

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  • http://ProgressiveOasis.com Progressive Oasis

    Someone asked about a petition back when this all started, sorry its late, but I have finally decided to do it. I have organized a protest every Sunday outside the Center they hold services, we have held the protest since the first Sunday after New Years. Here is the petition link. And thanks.

    http://www.change.org/petitions/no-more-dominion-covenant-church-at-uno-thompson-alumni-center

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  • Richard Willmer

    http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/05/31/protests-fail-to-silence-anti-gay-sermons-from-christian-preachers/?iref=allsearch

    It’s time for that old joke again …

    Q: What is the difference between Curtis Knapp* and God?

    A: God does not think he is Curtis Knapp*.

    * or whomever

    (The thing that annoys me most is the way in which people like Curtis Knapp hold God responsible for their own repugnant views. Why can’t they simply say “this is my view, and I take responsibility for it”? Why can’t they just let their ‘yes’ be ‘yes’, and their ‘no’ be ‘no’?)

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