Comments on: Courts Inch Us A Step Closer to Legal Religious Entheogens

By: embreis

embreis — Tue, 07 Jul 2009 01:25:03 +0000

Perhaps you would be less sick of it if you would actually read the posts and understand the subject under discussion. I don't see that either Donald or I said that you had to use drugs or even approve of using drugs to be a Pagan. I don't myself use them. What I find deplorable is the tendency of some Pagans to support the continued use of state violence to oppress people who do choose to use drugs. Or to have sex in unapproved ways, for that matter.
The point of the "condition of Episcopalians" line is to suggest that some of us have become too interested in being respectable and joining the oligarchy. It is an allusion to Walter Pater's statement that "All art aspires to the condition of music," meaning to be pure form divorced from content. Perhaps it would be less confusing if I said "to the condition of yuppies."

By: Tracie the Red

Tracie the Red — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:36:44 +0000

There's more:

But any time someone makes comments like this:

"The reason there is so little support is because so many Pagans aspire to the condition of Episcopalians."

…that is not that far away from saying "You're not REALLY Pagan if you don't do this – you must REALLY be a Christian!"

I've been told I must not be a free spirit because I don't indulge in a LOT of things.

I wasn't aware that my Paganism was dependent on my sexual life (who I did and did not sleep with) – my use or non-use of intoxicants – who I do and do not vote for – whether or not I am a vegetarian – etc.

I'm getting really sick to death of this unconscious mental attitude that "you're only a REAL Pagan if you use drugs, sleep with everything that moves, eat only plant foods, vote Democrat, etc"

Absolutely sick of it.

By: Tracie the Red

Tracie the Red — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:36:15 +0000

To continue:

The definition of "Pagan" does not hinge on whether or not one uses drugs – and last I checked, there was NO PAGAN POPE who defined orthodoxy and orthopraxis for all Pagans.

We became Pagans to get away from that kind of thing.

By: Tracie the Red

Tracie the Red — Mon, 06 Jul 2009 22:35:18 +0000

Donald and Embries: I have said it once and I will ay it again:

Just because I am Pagan, do not assume that I use drugs or want to use drugs or want to be around intoxicated people.

I think a lot of people (yea, even right here on this forum) are really insensitive to those of us who have been hurt – mentally, emotionally, physically, sexually – by intoxicated people. There are many reasons to NOT use drugs, that being just one.

And I really wish those who DO use drugs would stop acting as if Pagan = drug user, and if one doesn't use drugs that means one "isn't really Pagan." My Paganism has to do with the Gods I worship – NOTHING ELSE. Technically, the word "Pagan" is defined in our 21st century society as anyone not Christian, Jewish or Muslim.

That's the definition of Pagan.

By: Snoozepossum

Snoozepossum — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 21:24:05 +0000

We've run into that too. I don't give a dingo's kidney what someone does on their own time as long as it affects only them, but the better half and I don't imbibe (he as part of his seizure management, me because pot smoke gives my allergies hell, and I have adverse reactions to many meds from being a child guinea pig). It's noteworthy that most of the people who want to say we're "too uptight" or " enslaved by Christian values" never take me up on my offer to give it a shot if they'll sign a paper agreeing to complete financial responsibility for any medical problems we may have as a result.

My experience has also been that while consciousness-altering substances do seem to be facilitators for many people working alone or with various specialized healers, I've seen them cause more problems than progresses in group ritual.

By: embreis

embreis — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 13:16:33 +0000

The reason there is so little support is because so many Pagans aspire to the condition of Episcopalians. As you will see in comments to this blog, there is a strong faction that says to anyone who talks about drugs, sex or anything remotely connected to '60 counterculture figures "Hush, you're embarrassing us."

By: Donald Meinshausen

Donald Meinshausen — Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:21:48 +0000

I find it quite amazing that with all the archeological and anthropological evidence for shamanic uses of entheogens from all over the world that there is so little discussion about this in pagan forums. Especially considering our 60's roots with such advocates as Timothy Leary, Robert Anton Wilson and Terrance McKenna who have identified themselves as pagans and have spoken at pagan gatherings. I am going to have a letter to the editor printed in Pangaia about the lack of support among our crowd about this witch hunt even though the drug war is the greatest cause of pagans being in prison. I run discussions on paganism at fr33 agents and psychedelics at Mystic Moons. See you there. I also blog about libertarianism at fr33 agents.