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	<title>Comments on: The Elephants in the Room</title>
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	<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html</link>
	<description>A modern Pagan perspective</description>
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		<title>By: Serena</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17386</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17386</guid>
		<description>&quot;originated&quot; is a wrong term I think for me to have used.....More like &quot;How you worship the God/dess/s we have known for so long and that our destiny has intertwined with for centuries....&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;originated&quot; is a wrong term I think for me to have used&#8230;..More like &quot;How you worship the God/dess/s we have known for so long and that our destiny has intertwined with for centuries&#8230;.&quot;</p>
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		<title>By: Serena</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17417</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17417</guid>
		<description>I see the question of truth and non-truth as being different than our idea that the wellbeing of a particular God or Goddess can be separated from the integrity and well-being of the culture that is a part of that God or Goddess.  Cultures have a right to decide what is right for them and what isn&#039;t.  Christianity tried to decide for everyone, and force Christian &quot;truth&quot; and culture down everyone else&#039;s throats.  That&#039;s censorship.  A culture saying, &quot;How you worship the God/ess/s we originated is wrong,&quot; is merely asking you to do a better job of helping them maintain their integrity as a group, or to stop pretending that your God/ess/s = their God/ess/s.  They are asking you to help nourish the root as well as enjoy the fruit.

It gets complicated though because groups are not uniform and everyone has their own 2cents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see the question of truth and non-truth as being different than our idea that the wellbeing of a particular God or Goddess can be separated from the integrity and well-being of the culture that is a part of that God or Goddess.  Cultures have a right to decide what is right for them and what isn&#039;t.  Christianity tried to decide for everyone, and force Christian &quot;truth&quot; and culture down everyone else&#039;s throats.  That&#039;s censorship.  A culture saying, &quot;How you worship the God/ess/s we originated is wrong,&quot; is merely asking you to do a better job of helping them maintain their integrity as a group, or to stop pretending that your God/ess/s = their God/ess/s.  They are asking you to help nourish the root as well as enjoy the fruit.</p>
<p>It gets complicated though because groups are not uniform and everyone has their own 2cents.</p>
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		<title>By: Serena</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17406</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17406</guid>
		<description>&quot;Feels right&quot; doesn&#039;t have to be a put-down, but it is an inward-focused and not community-focused statement.  I think (Trickster, am I accurate?) that Trickster is not objecting to a high level of individual awareness of what &quot;feels right&quot; but the lionizing of one&#039;s own individual &quot;rightness&quot; at the expense of even considering what is &quot;right&quot; to others.  &quot;Do as you will, an it harm none&quot;.  How do you know whether or not you&#039;re doing harm if you don&#039;t ask, don&#039;t connect, don&#039;t inquire?  Peanut butter cookies are harmless...unless you&#039;re allergic to peanuts!

How does this distinction seem to you?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&quot;Feels right&quot; doesn&#039;t have to be a put-down, but it is an inward-focused and not community-focused statement.  I think (Trickster, am I accurate?) that Trickster is not objecting to a high level of individual awareness of what &quot;feels right&quot; but the lionizing of one&#039;s own individual &quot;rightness&quot; at the expense of even considering what is &quot;right&quot; to others.  &quot;Do as you will, an it harm none&quot;.  How do you know whether or not you&#039;re doing harm if you don&#039;t ask, don&#039;t connect, don&#039;t inquire?  Peanut butter cookies are harmless&#8230;unless you&#039;re allergic to peanuts!</p>
<p>How does this distinction seem to you?</p>
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		<title>By: Serena</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17384</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:22:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17384</guid>
		<description>Better still than being appropriated is being treated as an equal partner of a trading negotiation, so why not shoot for that instead of emphasizing how grateful for appropriation endangered cultures should be?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better still than being appropriated is being treated as an equal partner of a trading negotiation, so why not shoot for that instead of emphasizing how grateful for appropriation endangered cultures should be?</p>
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		<title>By: Serena</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17351</link>
		<dc:creator>Serena</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Nov 2009 07:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17351</guid>
		<description>One of the issues with cultural &quot;borrowing&quot; from still-living cultures, as I understand it, is this:

It&#039;s like taking a rabbit, many rabbits, for food without giving back to the ecosystem that grew and fed and created rabbits.  So often there is nothing given back to the community that created the spiritual system, except a vague fuzzy feeling.  And the vague fuzzy feeling can actually cause damage from its vagueness.  Indigenous people objecting to cultural &quot;borrowing&quot; generally complain that people misrepresent processes as Indigenous when they&#039;re merely Indigenous-inspired, and that this leads to a fuzzing and distortion of Indigenous values that then adversely affects Indigenous communities.  And the damage is not just spiritual.  Native communities often have to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars &quot;verifying&quot; a distorted truth about their culture (government structure - you had a &quot;chief&quot; and a &quot;council&quot;, right?  prove it..) before our government will even negotiate with them.  Also, distorted traditions masquerading as sure &#039;nuff Indigenous (rather than the more honest &quot;inspired by Indigenous....&quot;) make it harder for displaced people of Native descent to find their way back to their roots.  I knew one Native man who took his Nativeness from Hallmark posters.  He was a pretty lost soul.  There are enough obstacles in place between Native folks and the full renewal/expression of their cultures - why should we create one more, especially when most of us are so disconnected from the culture that we may not recognize the impact of our actions?

I have a friend who is a New Age shaman.  Although I&#039;m uncomfortable with some aspects of this, I would become more comfortable if she took the time to listen to Indigenous perspectives of her work....a diversity of Indigenous perspectives...and if she gave back in some personal, connected way to the Indigenous community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the issues with cultural &quot;borrowing&quot; from still-living cultures, as I understand it, is this:</p>
<p>It&#039;s like taking a rabbit, many rabbits, for food without giving back to the ecosystem that grew and fed and created rabbits.  So often there is nothing given back to the community that created the spiritual system, except a vague fuzzy feeling.  And the vague fuzzy feeling can actually cause damage from its vagueness.  Indigenous people objecting to cultural &quot;borrowing&quot; generally complain that people misrepresent processes as Indigenous when they&#039;re merely Indigenous-inspired, and that this leads to a fuzzing and distortion of Indigenous values that then adversely affects Indigenous communities.  And the damage is not just spiritual.  Native communities often have to spend tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars &quot;verifying&quot; a distorted truth about their culture (government structure &#8211; you had a &quot;chief&quot; and a &quot;council&quot;, right?  prove it..) before our government will even negotiate with them.  Also, distorted traditions masquerading as sure &#039;nuff Indigenous (rather than the more honest &quot;inspired by Indigenous&#8230;.&quot;) make it harder for displaced people of Native descent to find their way back to their roots.  I knew one Native man who took his Nativeness from Hallmark posters.  He was a pretty lost soul.  There are enough obstacles in place between Native folks and the full renewal/expression of their cultures &#8211; why should we create one more, especially when most of us are so disconnected from the culture that we may not recognize the impact of our actions?</p>
<p>I have a friend who is a New Age shaman.  Although I&#039;m uncomfortable with some aspects of this, I would become more comfortable if she took the time to listen to Indigenous perspectives of her work&#8230;.a diversity of Indigenous perspectives&#8230;and if she gave back in some personal, connected way to the Indigenous community.</p>
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		<title>By: Just Arrived from Megalithica/Immanion Press &#171; Silver Horse Journal</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17319</link>
		<dc:creator>Just Arrived from Megalithica/Immanion Press &#171; Silver Horse Journal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Apr 2009 18:07:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17319</guid>
		<description>[...] seen a number of Immanion/Megalithica&#8217;s titles reviewed and referenced. Most recently, a review of Talking About the Elephant, a collection of essays about cultural appropriation and the Neopagan perspective, yielded a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] seen a number of Immanion/Megalithica&#8217;s titles reviewed and referenced. Most recently, a review of Talking About the Elephant, a collection of essays about cultural appropriation and the Neopagan perspective, yielded a [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: avin_river</title>
		<link>http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/2009/03/the-elephants-in-the-room.html#comment-17410</link>
		<dc:creator>avin_river</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Mar 2009 02:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/?p=2611#comment-17410</guid>
		<description>The other thing was that we were exposed to the negative forces that the elders told us about (we don&#039;t mention their name).  Some say that white people aren&#039;t attacked by these spirits.  I would say (to appropriate a term from Harry Potter) that Muggles don&#039;t feel them, but when you&#039;re pagan and drawing from the same well source of power they definitely do.  And that would be my ending argument.  In my belief and many others (either by parallel or series cultural evolution) we draw our energy from the world around us.  If I live in the land of the Navajo, even if I am sticking to my culturally appropriate ceremonies, I am still drawing from the same energies that they are, and that the Hopi and the Ute are, and that the Catholic Priest is when he said Mass in our beautiful chapel perched on the edge of the Mesa (yeah, we went to Mass too, he was a great Priest :) ).  My message?  Stop thinking so much, get back to nature when you can, learn from those around you and have respect.  If you don&#039;t know?  Ask!  The worst you can get is a no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The other thing was that we were exposed to the negative forces that the elders told us about (we don&#039;t mention their name).  Some say that white people aren&#039;t attacked by these spirits.  I would say (to appropriate a term from Harry Potter) that Muggles don&#039;t feel them, but when you&#039;re pagan and drawing from the same well source of power they definitely do.  And that would be my ending argument.  In my belief and many others (either by parallel or series cultural evolution) we draw our energy from the world around us.  If I live in the land of the Navajo, even if I am sticking to my culturally appropriate ceremonies, I am still drawing from the same energies that they are, and that the Hopi and the Ute are, and that the Catholic Priest is when he said Mass in our beautiful chapel perched on the edge of the Mesa (yeah, we went to Mass too, he was a great Priest <img src='http://www.patheos.com/blogs/wildhunt/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  ).  My message?  Stop thinking so much, get back to nature when you can, learn from those around you and have respect.  If you don&#039;t know?  Ask!  The worst you can get is a no.</p>
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