Spirit and Matter
By David Matthew Brown
Q: I have a question about spirit and matter, what is the difference?
A: Lets dialogue about it. When you have this idea about spirit, spiritual things, and spiritual way of living and so forth…what does that bring up?
Q: Well the first thing that comes to mind is expansiveness, bigness…
A: Good, where is it…where is this expansiveness…. Is it there? Over there? Is it here?
Q: Well I would say that is everywhere.
A: So this thing that you call spirit is everywhere…correct? Am I hearing you correctly?
Q: Yes it is everywhere.
A: So what is it? The mind wants to figure it out. What is everywhere?
Q: Well God is everywhere. It is infinite.
A: God is everywhere and so everywhere is where God is.
Q: Yes. God constitutes everything and all space.
A: So according to your mind and this movement of mind…God is spirit…which would be everywhere…
Q: Yes this presence, which is higher in thinking…
A: So a presence, which is everywhere and yet higher, which would make one wonder if they were separate from everything…would it not? Are you separate from God?
Q: No I would say that I am not.
A: So there is consciousness and different levels of consciousness…is that what you are saying?
Q: Well yes there would be different levels of consciousness, God, spirit…
A: Right but God is everywhere right…so there is no place where God is not…correct?
A: So can there be any problems? It seems like there are different levels of God. That your problems open you up to the next level of God…
Q: Yes it moves you up the levels..
A: Have you moved up the ladder? Is there somewhere you wish to go?
Q: Yes I would like to get to enlightment?
A: Okay, you get there then what? You know it all and you have all the answers and the learning stops.
Q: I never saw it that way.
A: Again we come back to what is. Enlightenment is a showy word that is over used by thinkers to achieve more and more. You have a rich man who is attached to money and power and fame and then you have the seeker who is attached to enlightment, power, and fame. Both lost and confused by the idea. Only a thought can divide itself in a conflict. In this case the conflict is God. You have suggested God is everywhere, correct? And yet it appears that this God has levels to it. And that this God is keeping you in a place till you pass a test of some kind. Right? So now this God is a concept of ideas to be believed in. Yet the idea has created a problem within itself. Do you see? The idea suggests that in the future I will attain this thing, sometime. Yet there are other people who have attained this idea and understand it more. So now you find yourself going to others to understand that which is present…now. They call themselves gurus, priests, spiritual leaders, and still you listen to them as though they hold a key to something bigger than you. To save you from this “me”. Which has divided itself against itself. As they teach you, or you read books, you gain more intellect, and separate yourself from the consciousness that is now. In order to understand God, you must understand what God is not. You cannot find God in thought. Yet most religious traditions are based on thought. Thought divides itself into beliefs. Enlightenment is a term. That term has become an image for you. It will always be in the future. Observe the image and feelings, when they come up. Don’t condemn them. Just allow them to be.
Q: So there is God?
A: (Laughs) You expect me to give the answer so you can move on with your life. You must want it as if you want the next breath. Your breath is breathing you and you never question it, but if you were to question it, you would understand it. Do see?
Q: So God is everywhere and is not this “me”.
Q: So this “me” separates itself and becomes its own identity. An identity, which I call “me”. But I am not this “me”. Yet when I observe it. I will understand the nature of God.
A: Good. Good start. So what are problems?
Q: Problems would be a conflict with something.
A: What is the conflict?
Q: Between what is real and unreal.
A: Right. This “me”, wants to be right, judge, complain, blame, lie, steal, be dishonest, and so forth. You must look at that. Because the very nature of “me” forms the second part of your question, “What is matter?’ Matter is formed by thought.
Q: Matter is formed by thought?
A: So what is matter? See we have to start with the process and move slowly. Not get ahead of our selves.
Q: Matter is physical, tangible…
Q: Yes tangible, you can feel it, smell it, touch it…
A: Okay so if this matter is tangible is it real?
Q: Well yes it is to me. I can feel it.
A: So if you can feel it then it’s real?
A: It makes itself real because you see it and feel it? Is that what you are saying?
Q: Yes that sounds right.
A: So real to me is permanent, fixed, does this matter change in any way?
Q: Yes it changes form, feelings, senses, and age…
A: So it sounds unreal, impermanent, changing…
Q: Yes it does. Well it feels…
A: What feels?
Q: I feel.
A: Yes but how are you feeling? What are feelings?
Q: Feelings would be thoughts…
A: Okay so the thoughts seem to be changing right, so do your feelings change based on your thought about something. One minute you are slave to diet and the next you eat like a pig. What changed?
Q: My thought about the subject.
Q: So as my thoughts change, matter changes.
A: Yes. So is matter real?
Q: No. Either are these thoughts. But they appear to get my attention.
A: Not really. You had to observe them and question them before they got your attention. Otherwise they would just keep taking action on anything and reacting to everything.
A: The only fact is what is happening now. Deal with it. Investigate it. Question it. Be skeptical of it. Forget about religion, organizations, politics, government, and etc question yourself, question the problem. It is work. But in order to change humanity, you must do it now.