My dad got an email from a guy back home we both know (but whom I haven’t spoken to since high school).
JT. I went to school with you, whether you remember me or not. I have also known your Dad for quite a long time. I just thought I would put my two cents in on your atheist view point. For starters, God never told any of his believers to hate or to discriminate against anyone. He did set forth his word and his expectations to follow it. Here comes the folly of man. We cannot submit ourselves to his righteousness, which would work out fine for us. We are constantly trying to go about establishing our own: hence all the different religious denominations. God is not unjust, it is the fools who think they know better than him, who go around putting people down, etc. In Romans (KJV) 10, our Apostle Paul tells of how Isreal( God’s choosen people in the Old Testimant, did this very thing. They were so “religious” they even killed their own savior when he was sent to them. So, you are not going to find me sitting here debating my righteousness with anyone. However, the righteousness of God is perfect. That is the whole issue many denominations miss. They are so wrapped up in trying to follow the law of Moses, or any number of the ordinances in Leviticus and Deuteronomy. Romans 10:4 says “For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone that believeth.” This is going directly against the idea most “religious” people are used to believing. Paul is stating that submitting to the righteousness of God is the way, not establishing your own. Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures, he was burried and he rose the third day, according to the scriptures, for our justification. That is it. It is a finished work, and people in church are blind to this. They even go as far to try to trump that action with their own good doing, etc, etc. This was not the will of God. Cutting people down and telling people that your better than them is also not the will of God. In Romans 3:10-12 we are assured, ” As it is written, There is none righteous, no not one: (11 ) there is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.” This is a beautiful thing JT. This tells us to stop worrying about trying to be a good person, and just except that the blood of Christ was sufficient. In 1 Timothy 2:3-5 it is written “For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Lord and Savior; (4) Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. (5) For there is one God , and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” I don’t know what or who turned you off to God so badly in the past, but I would be willing to bet it had something to do with the oppressive behavior of the religious church people in this world. God is not accurately being represented and witnessed by those folks, and some of the stuff I have personally experienced in churches very much reflects that. Christ gives up hope for a glorious after life where the pain and suffering of this present and evil world cannot be compared to the glory to follow. Please consider coming to the Comfort Inn conference room on the third Wednesday of any month for an informal and completely non denominational or religious Bible study. We have food at 6 and do a Bible study from 7-8 ish. I really believe you will get something out of it.
Sorry JT I meant to type Christ gives us hope…, not gives up hope.
Then a second email.
Hi John. I saw you referrenced on JT’s website and thought I would send my comments to you as well. I respect you both and am not trying to be an antagonist, rather open up a healthy discussion, as you can see, I choose to keep private. The invitatiion is open to you as well to meet with us for a Bible study at the Comfort Inn conference room. I am not trying to challenge you to go, rather asking you to see the difference in a group of believers that is not motivated by greed (asking attendees for cash) or any other reason. We all simply get together to read and study the Bible from a literal perspective. No one will ask you to join, because you cannot. We are just a group of believers in the word of God, nothing else. We dont try to put anything on anyone.
Not sure how this all went to my dad, but not me. Ah well. Dad took the time to respond. Today will catalog the exchange between them.
Dad wrote back…
Thanks for the invite, Robert. I am not interested at all in bible study or in what you believe. I am interested in what evidence you have for a god—other than what the bible says because we all know it is not accurate. Hope you and Robin are well and life is good.
I am going to go out on a huge limb John, and be very presumptious. I will bet that you see the whole Bible as a giant contridiction. I did also, until someone showed me why. It is simple. There was a change of program at the cross. Just for the sake of research, take the books of Genisis through John and study the prophesy and the promises and all of that pretty tough to understand scripture, then, match that up with the Books of Hebrews through Revelation. It all makes pretty good sense, until someone showed me why. It is simple. There was a change of program at the cross. Just for the sake of research, take the books of Genisis through John and study the prophesy and the promises and all of that pretty tough to understand scripture, then, match that up with the Books of Hebrews through Revelation. It all makes pretty good sense, chronologically and spiritually speaking. Now add in the books of Romans through Philemon. I bet you will get confused again, seeing as how none of it lines up. I would be sceptical as well. Here is the fundimental difference, John. The formentioned books including the old testimant, are writen specifically to the nation of Isreal (Jacob)- this is an entanglement of oridnances, laws, and promises for that group of people. The Apostle Paul clearly identifies many, many differences in his message, contained in Romans through Philemon. Paul is the Apostle to the Gentiles, which he clearly states in He points out the differences in fact, and warns the people to watch out for the same religious behavior that made Christ necessary i the fist place. John I am honestly not trying to insult your intellegence. I am just trying to help. As for proof of God, I cannot help but reccommend the study of Romans through Philemon out of a King James Bible. I know I must sound redundant at this point, but the answers are honestly there. I was an athiest at one point in my life, and I was seeking the answers to creation, life, death, etc. John, I am not trying put what I believe on you. Yes I believe what the Bible says is the word of God. My beliefs cannot save me or anyone. That is up to the power of God. I simply have found the truth in that, I don’t have to bee right or wrong, I just have to believe that God is right. I have nothing against anyone, because I am in the same boat as they are spiritually. So many demoninational churches try to condemn people for not getting with their program. If I were to go along with that, knowing what I know about how God views our fleshly bodies, I would have to retort that your program is wretched, Ref: Romans 7:24, or I would have to say your program is vile, Ref: Phillipians 3:19-21. Christ didn’t do what he did so we would all blindly go around persecuting and blaming one another for this or that. He did what he did so we would have peace to dwell and be amongst each other assured that he died for our sins, and that if we believe in God and what he did throught the blood of his son, we will see that we are all the same, and can do so. Through ignorance to that rightousness and grace God offered, man has perverted that simple truth. All God wants, and has wanted from the beginning, is for mankind to accept his word and not try to establish things our own way…..which as you can see will never happen. That deems Christ necessary, not to condemn us, but to free us.
Look all around at the beauty of so many things on this Earth, at the beauty of the human body in all its compexities, and the physical world we are in now, just look at it John, and please tell me how there isn’t a God. I don’t believe that you can….
Romans 8:18 says “For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that shall be revealed in us.
Dad wrote back…
“Look all around at the beauty of so many things on this Earth, at the beauty of the human body in all its compexities, and the physical world we are in now, just look at it John, and please tell me how there isn’t a God”.. Okay. Physical forces and natural laws working on matter and energy for the physical world, evolution for the human body. Your turn: outside of the bible –which is the bible saying the bible is true—provide me one piece of evidence for your god.
You make a big schism between the NT and the OT, but it is the same god. Genesis is the same creation story. You don’t get to pawn off all of the inconsistencies based on Paul and Moses, for instance (again) NOah’s worldwide flood DID NOT HAPPEN. We have uninterrupted written records from Egypt and Chinese dynasties when they were supposed to be at the bottom of the flood.
I have as little interest in bible study as you have in Koran study or Bhagavad Vida study.
Part II at noon EST.