My mother is pretty religious, though she isn't a crazy fundamentalist or somebody who goes around trying to convert people. She's not against science either. Her father was a doctor and taught at a medical college and she herself has an M.B.B.S. along with my father who is also a doctor.
Her faith is still like this rock, though. I can't even begin to imagine about how to tell her that I stopped believing in Allah and any other when I was 12.

Most all of my relatives are theists. So are most of my friends. It certainly is a problem in attempting to foster honest community and relationship anymore. Seems the chasm of theism is wide and large and there isn't a bridge that overcomes the arrogance on each side of it.

Unfortunate, but theism divides.

Hi everyone. I'm a newbie.

I was brought up as a catholic and my mother still believes. I don't think I ever believed. I just went along with it, until I got to the stage where I gave it serious thought and then decided it wasn't for me. However, my kids go to catholic schools, which was a decision I made in spite of the religion taught there, rather than because of it. I like everything else about the schools apart from the catholic bit, so am comfortable with that decision. My mum and my kids know that I am an atheist and they are fine with that, but my youngest wanted to make her First Holy Communion. I tried to dissuade her but caved in eventually and so am taking her to weekly church to facilitate that. I'm not comfortable with this, but neither am I comfortable with foisting my non-beliefs on her, so am just getting on with it.

My mother's Christian Orthodox (and so's the rest of her side of the family) and my father and his parents are all positive atheists. :D

Hey now.

They do share a number of personality traits.

Glenn Beck is god?

Damn you. You just made me vomit in my mouth.

"How does that work? "

Glenn Beck is god?

You'll have to ask her. She still believes in god, jesus, and in one particular conversation she made it very clear she thought the devil was a real entity. She has books about, and discussing, the bible all around her house. I can only imagine that she buys those books out of guilt for not doing more christian-like things. I don't know if she reads those books.

I just remembered that my father converted to Catholicism to marry his now-wife(not my mother). No idea what he converted from, but I get a very strong impression that he only converted to make her happy and couldn't care less about the religion.

My mother is religious though she doesn't do anything more religious than watching Glenn Beck. No church, no reading the bible.

How does that work?

My mother is religious though she doesn't do anything more religious than watching Glenn Beck. No church, no reading the bible.

I honestly don't know my father's stance on religion. He could be the most devoted follower of jesus or the most secular of atheist, but I'd never know because religion is never a topic of discussion. I'm planning on asking him face-to-face some time before he dies. I know he's strongly anti-gay, but it's easy to write that off as more of a cultural influence growing up than a religious one.

I grew up in a Southern Baptist (extremely conservative) home because my father is a minister. Recently my husband and I finally began to update our social networking sites to mirror our current religious viewpoints. (Side note, this is never a good idea. I am now convinced that having a facebook at all is a very bad idea indeed...) In case it matters to anyone, I am now agnostic and my husband is an atheist. My parents took me off their online friendslist and sent me a very nasty email in which they said they were angry, disappointed, etc. This I could have dealt with. However, at the very end of the email, they insulted my marriage. My father proclaimed he felt like a fool for conducting our marriage ceremony, because we obviously didn't mean it. So basically, our marriage is worthless because we've grown out of our Christianity.

The good thing about all this is that he did not sign our marriage license. I can see my father trying to annul the marriage under the pretense that a contract "under God" is no longer legal if the two parties involved are no longer "saved." This sounds terrible, but this is the same man who threatened to not support me through college if I wasn't going to church every Sunday.

I can't wait til they contact my grandmother and let her in on all our fun.

Tilly, I am totally expecting to pay back my student loans all on my own now.

Even Dawkins refers to himself as a "cultural Christian."

I did, and you're absolutely right, I did find some people who felt the exact same way. Anyway, she was happy, and the food was rather glorious. The priest is a first-rate demagogue and continually twisted facts regarding other religions, so I just cheerfully lol'd in my head :D

Here in Spain we´ve been enjoying the Semana Santa parades which occur in every town and village in the country, leading up to the big one on Easter Sunday. I´ve enjoyed the costumes, the skill of the guys carrying the huge statues and especially the brass band music (which is a sort of cross between Nino Rota and Ennio Morricone). The thing is, whilst I am enjoying these things through a strictly artistic/secular lens, I don´t think I´m the only one. I realy haven´t met many people in Spain who profess to be strongly religious.

My advice would be to go along with your mother if it makes her happy (as long as its only a couple of times a year). You might be surprised at how many people you meet there who feel the same way as you. Enjoy the show and be grateful that your mother is not Church of England, because those services really are dull.

I understand, a friend of mine also suggested this to me. It seems to be a case of swallowing your own beliefs/views and being the 'bigger' person. Again, I know its stubborn but I wish it wasn't the atheist in the situation who has to alter their view\ from 'religious' to 'cultural,' but at the end of the day... it is family. Thanks!

Would it that bad to go as it's only once a year as hopefully it would help you move to a ground that's not so emotionally charged and so allow you to tackle the problem or maybe just ignore it all together? I certainly understand the cultural part as my better half is Orthodox so we did end up having a blessing (after a real wedding in the UK) in a church. I think the big difference between the situations is that I didn't feel as though my views were being challenged (even the priest knew I was non-religious). I did feel somewhat hypocritical but again I felt it was more like a cultural than religious experince. One last thing to add, when I say my better half is Orthodox it really is cultural as she doesn't believe in heaven or hell and her whole concept of god is woolly to say the least.

So that's my advice; we all end of doing things to keep the peace, especially when it comes to families, and is your viewpoint so strong that it overrides this. Which ever choice you make I hope it works out.

p.s. Remember that being English means I would rather have my toenails pulled out than risk the chance of offending someone!

Ugh, I tried the 'emotional' approach. It was working until she said that I know nothing of God and religion and that I'm 'culture-less' and uneducated and really, even her sentences were too badly structured for me to bother. I don't even know. Every single time I began to explain myself and why I think the way I do she would shut off and put on the TV and then call ME close-minded. And that I always say the same thing. That she wishes she could convert me. I was seriously tempted to start laughing hysterically.

-sigh-

Thanks gaize ><;
It really is like tiptoeing through a mine-field...

I feel your pain, Beyond. I grew up in a culture that is entirely centered around religious activities. Now that I am no longer religious, I have almost nothing in common with anyone from that period in my life, including my family.

Family always makes this stuff ten times as hard, and an in-the-car ambush conversation always gets tense. The only piece of advice I can give is that if she is as emotionally driven as you say, that is the key. You have to get her to understand how what she is doing/asking makes you feel, without getting into a shouting match. Approach her, sit down and have an emotional heart-to-heart. For some folks, the rational explanation thing just doesn't work.

I'm unsure on how to handle a personal situation.

My mother is aware that I'm an atheist and seems to be somewhat in self-denial. Its not just that she's a Greek Orthodox Christian, its also her personality... The majority of her life decisions have been purely emotion-based (such as spending all her savings/money on expensive flight tickets to see her boyfriend in the UK instead of focusing on her massage/aromatherapy business and securing a consistent source of income instead of spending recklessly) and while partially due to her religion, she tends to lack self-awareness, or is selective on what she chooses to reflect on. Whenever we argue she seems to repeat herself and uses the same insults without understanding what they mean, then does the typical retraction/promise that that they won't be repeated a short while later. Everything, I've observed, from her driving routes to the coffee she drinks is comfort-based, a 'safe-zone.'

She asked me "So, are you coming to church Friday or Sunday?" which, honestly, is the equivalent to asking a vegetarian whether they would like chicken or beef for dinner. There is an absence of option c): neither. It was in the car on the way to her house, and I was left very unsure how to respond. Any notion of religious insensitivity would trigger her, and I knew it'd escalate into shouting madness. It did. We're not talking to each other right now, and she just left for church. She demonized my point of view, which I expected, but her main 'beef' was that I was rejecting my Greek culture (however, my non-existent relationship with either my Polish or Croatian roots didn't seem to register) and that I was selfish.
Her argument didn't consist of much: "You came last year!!" "You have no respect for your family!" (which by the way are mostly situated in Cyprus, the other side of the world.) I think she goes mostly for the sense of community and Greek connection, to satisfy her nostalgia from her church-goings as a child.

I tried to explain that
-I'm of an age (lol) to decide whether or not I would like to partake in religious activities
-Its a personal choice, it is SEPARATE to my family relationships
-I've been going on special holidays etc for her, how is that selfish? (she even agreed when I told her I've gone in the past to make her happy)
-that a Greek culture does exist outside of religion and that you can't simply generalize such a huge group of people (I used examples of people but she couldn't connect the dots and continually took what I was saying out of context and made claims that nothing I was saying was relevant)

I understand that religion is OBVIOUSLY a huge influence on Greek culture, but why should I conform to it just because the majority of Greeks are? I don't feel I need a 'safe zone' or that I should follow the ideologies that that culture dictates just because one of my parents happen to belong to it. Idk, this is all very basic stuff, but she doesn't seem to understand that my genetics=/=I should act or follow the same cultural shiznit her Greek friends' daughters do. Its not like I don't acknowledge my 'Greekness' or anything, but apparently not visiting a church twice a week marks me as such.

I'm just finding it insane that my mother would choose to abide by her Invisible Sky-Daddy over a real human-being. Because everyone else is? Because its her 'culture'? Its ridiculous. If anyone knows a good way to approach this or how to deal with this in a way that doesn't make me seem like a ruthless, apathetic bitch I would be most grateful. I will also send you a *virtual* easter-bunny. Which is kind of like praying you get chocolate, except the internet is real.

About the book in the bathroom - you know how some people have framed sayings or quotes hanging in their bathrooms for you to read while on the toilet? Frame some quotes from Dawkins or other notable athiests for THEM to read. They'll be a captive audience!

when people like that talk behind my back, I take it as a privilege. Me and my brother which are the rude and rough city-slickers from NJ visit are family in Atlanta, Georgia, we get that a little. I like being honest up-front and I hate shallow manners and being dishonest unless its to keep some unreasonable drama from happening. So when i find out that people are talking behind my back, it just reminds me how much more of an honest person I am compared to them.

A time-tested strategy to deal with this situation is to get loaded beforehand and continue drinking throughout the night. If they don't serve alcohol, a flasky of fine scotch will keep the holidays rolling. Everyone is sure to have a good time, especially when you break out your Jesus and the camel in the desert jokes.

Thanks y'all,

Every little bit helps! I'll have to try the book thing. Perhaps just reading some Darwin, Dawkins, or a printout of Daniel's cliches will help relieve any tension I have... bonus that I can leave the book/printout there for someone to see.

My family prays before meals too. If you are looking for the non-aggressive route, my answer has just been to bow my head with everyone and think about something else. I've always lived under the "just let it go" philosophy when it comes to my family. They can't change my mind, and I can't change theirs.

The best advice I have is to try to make it into a joke in your head if you can. Make a list of stupid fake-concerned phrases that are most likely to come up and play bingo. And remember there's a bunch of people here who would laugh along with you if we were there. Also, keep a good book in the bathroom and lock yourself in there for 10 mins to yourself if it gets too much.

I really hope it's not as bad for you as you expect!

Move?

Ugh, sounds unpleasant. Wish I had good advice for you. Unfortunately, my reaction to such things tends toward the openly aggressive, which is a stance that doesn't work for most people.