Is there no part of the bible, seeing we are using that as a guide, that is not contradictory. In his image, physically, even Fred Phelps would have to say no, so what does that leave, morally, intellectually, appreciation, knowledge? All those, makes the Tree in the Garden, not needed as "In the image of" implies that the use of the knowledge enabled by the fruit would already be in play.

I know why it's called the Holy Bible, it's misspelt of course, should be Holey Bible from all the gun to foot action it contains.

God is said to have created humans in his image. We look like God. God therefore looks like us, q.e.d. I don't think you can get around this statement if you accept Genesis.

As for the get-out-of-jail-free thing, this is just the old Euthyphro Dilemma. When morality springs from a single source, anything that source says is moral, is moral. Period. As I pointed out on another thread, if God were to declare that it is good to eat a live human infant for breakfast every morning, taking small bites and keeping the child alive for as long as possible during the process, it would be good. You cannot possibly argue with that. And yet no sane person would accept this under any circumstances as "good".

The idea that Allah or Yahweh would lay out a set of moral rules and then either keep them from us, or worse yet, create us so that understanding them is beyond our ability, is even more disturbing.

UrsaMinor I think you will find that their Jesus is the superhuman with skillz, their Yahweh and Allah are the unknowable, get out of jail free, anything allowed, because it's them gods. In fact this is more true with regards to Allah than to Jesus's Dad. (You know when I say Jesus's dad, the whole conception thing makes my mind shy away from thinking about it. Was it rape or not... Is there any part of the Jesus story that computes, let alone is true?)

I can't speak for Allah, but Yahweh is pretty much described as a superhuman dude with skillz. We were created in his image, but without the skillz.

The thing that gets me is when Yahweh is said to be good (and to be the definer what "good" means), but when you see something attributable to Yahweh that is Clearly Not Good, there is all sorts of handwaving about how the morality of such situations is beyond human comprehension, so it really must be Good because Yahweh did it, q.e.d., and we just can't see it.

If this is true, it means that no human can ever make a statement that thus-and-such is good or bad. No act or event can be known to have a definitive moral meaning, because Yahweh makes the rules and he's not telling us what they are.

When you think about it, most of the gods in history have just been superhuman dudes with skillz. It's only the Christian and Muslim gods that get the capital G and everything that goes with that.

But I like Loki. He glued Yahweh's ass to his seat once. Oh, Loki and his hijinks.

For me, I am only militant about one thing, and that is evidence required for the first claim, namely that a god could exist. That one I will not budge on, because it provide the basis for all follow ups. You can have your 12 armed Shiva or Tricky Loki, I care not, just show that the universe needs the exist of a god.

@fredjs:

So that's what the Newfies do with their surplus sugar cane crop. Now I know. :)

Mackerel daiquiris, anyone? I'll pass on the fish in my drinks, thanks. But they do make a lovely table décor.

@UrsaMinor:

Hey hey! It's sold in Canada and promoted as 'Newfie Screech' but my guess is that while its roots may be Jamaican, the connection stops there. Rum running to the south from Nfld was a pretty common occurrence back in the day.

Nope, not obligatory. I don't even know if that's a traditional thing or just done by people who somehow think that fishy beer is tasty. I'll try anything once.

@fredjs:

Howdy, neighbor! If it weren't for Lake Ontario, my house would be just three miles south of the Canadian border.

And I'm still confused. If Screech is a Jamaican rum, why does it say "Newfoundland" on the label?

And is it obligatory to drink it with fish, or are they just cocktail stirrers or something?

Nice. I've been here almost 6 years. A prairie boy, born & raised.

I'm in Barrhaven. Been in Ottawa 13 years now.

Screech is a Jamaican rum that's popular in Newfoundland. It's an acquired taste and probably a tad harsher than spiced rum. When you get 'Screeched In' there you're made an honorary Newfie and then finish the ceremony by doing a shot of the drink. For mine, they gave me a 1/2 of a measuring glass of it. Here's a pick of the bottle from the event in case you've never seen it: http://www.flickr.com/photos/fredjs73/5324352215/.

Yep, from Ottawa! Jeremy, are you living there now? I'm near the Ikea.

Hey, a fellow Ottawaian (?). Cheers. Go Sens (just not this year).

I'm only a little too old to have watched it, but I have a younger sister more the right age to have watched it religiously. It's one of those things like Star Wars that was around me in enough dosage for me to get a lot of references without actually having seen it. I know a lot more pop culture than I've ever consumed, just from having the tv on all the time, which I don't do anymore.

LRA might be around the right age, but if she's always been such a nerd, she might not have been interested.

Wouldn't know. Now it's my turn to claim ignorance of pop culture. :)

Maybe it's a reference to Saved by the Bell?

Oops, no, I see your location is Ottawa.

Screech? Iz much apologizings, I do not speak Canadian English and have no idea what that means. Mais vous etes aussi Quebecois, non?

@UrsaMinor: Actually, I'm holding a small Caplin from a trip to Newfoundland a couple of years back.

@Kodie: I loved that hat. I picked it up in Halifax and on my last night in Newfieland I got screeched in and, well, let's just say the hat got damaged and the Screech had a lot to do with it. TMI, I know. ;)

I think Fred is right about the over-use of strong adjectives to either embellish or emphasize weak or strong opinions. I don't believe it is a newer tendency though. In my story of Chris, my high school classmate, to turn him into a character I knew that you'd want to hear about, I would have to make him sound a lot more fascinating than anyone you knew in high school (or otherwise). It models a pattern of how people tend to embellish details of someone or misremember them much more dramatically, otherwise why would it stand apart from all the events you forget? Before there was writing and reading, stories were passed orally, stories are still passed orally, or written - strong adjectives unfortunately lose their power over time. There might once have been such a person as this "militant atheist," and so you want to complain about atheists, you have to communicate the reason for complaining about them. He's not just a regular guy I don't like for my own petty reasons, he's militant!

If Jesus actually brought wine to a party instead of changing water into wine, nobody would care because people bring liquor to a party quite ordinarily. No, you don't get it! This guy had skillz! Not just skills, like carpentry. UGH! I'm trying to tell you, this guy was COOOL! Not just 2 OOs like "cool." So hard to really impress you how COOOL he was. There was water at this banquet, see, that's kind of like a party, a really boring party 'cause they ran out of booze, and then Jesus!!!!! showed up with... NO! When he showed up, that water "turned into" wine (because he brought wine) and everyone was happy again.

Think how many boring parties you may have been to that ran short on liquor, and you were going to get your coat right then, that could have been saved by one person showing up with enough booze for everyone. That almost never happens, that you'd want to tell people the one time it did.

Whenever I hear the term "militant atheist", I know I'm doing it right. Most people use the term to people who are as open about their atheism as the religious are about their faith.

Fred has a bill cap though.

Hi, fredjs! And Popeye Kahn, too. I realize that I never properly said hello to you upthread.

Hey, neither of you guys have a rodent on your shoulder! It takes all kinds, I guess.

Hi, folks. Long time reader, first time forum user.

If I may offer some opinion here, there are two things I think of when I hear that horrible label 'militant atheist':

1. We tend to use adjectives today that are hardly worthy of what they're describing. For example, many would consider this film or that band to be "awesome", "the best thing ever" or call anything remotely above mediocre to be 'genius'. We use words reserved for things that are special to inflate what we either like or dislike. Whether it's due to mere changes in our collective use of language or an inability for the average person to discern the mundane from the truly awe inspiring is something I think could be debated ad nauseum but we all do it and I don't recall it being quite as common when I was a teen back in the 1980's. (Although I'm sure many things I referred to back then as 'grody to the max' probably weren't ;))

2. Believers and apologist apply 'militant' to we heathens because religion has been wearing the veil of protection for so long that the shift in the zeitgeist to openly questioning, criticizing and standing up against the pounding fist of religious fundamentalists has been happening at an increasing rate and they either are having trouble adapting and engaging in learning and communication with us or are simply unwilling to budge and hold on to the fallacy of their (ahem) true and morally sound beliefs. There are believers who do engage us in order to understand but those who so easily write us off as militant, strident and the like are just being childish bullies.

It's a 'water off a duck's back' thing for me although the slapping of that label on us is pretty stupid, let alone utterly uninformed. If anything, being a TRUE follower of the Bible or Koran seems to me to REQUIRE one to be militant.

Yep, we're the dangerous ones. ;)

And apparently some of us have rodents in our armpits.

EDIT:

All right, enough of this foolishness, here's my serious man-with-a-rodent pic. Every Rocky managed to look solemn for this shot.

We have skills, you can't deny it.

Wow...from militant atheists to axillary rodents in only 20 posts...

I do not want rodents in my armpits.

I have been thinking about getting a dog or maybe a dog and a cat. I miss having my cat that it's hard for me to say I would want a dog instead of a cat. Last time I acquired pets, I got two cats, I think pets are more fun in pairs, so maybe instead of no dogs and 2 cats, one of each.

Maude, as well as stealing your nuts, likes to crawl up your sleeves and nest in your arm-pits. Thankfully her four sisters have yet to figure this trick out!