Fortunately I have been the black sheep of the family for over two decades so all of my mormon siblings and cousins etc. knew what they were getting into from the beginning. I am sure most of them block my posts from showing up and just keep me on their list because it is the nice thing to do. Which is OK. However some old friends, like the one above, got all born again at some point since I last saw them and we tend to butt heads, but I am not going to lose any sleep over it. In fact I sort of perversely enjoy the battle of wills to see who gives up and "un-friends" the other first. Yes, I know, I have way too much time on my hands. :P

B.O.B, you have done well in arguing your position. Hopefully it has done some good. Personally, I couldn't keep up the good fight on facebook and my position was making me an outcast amongst some of my friends and family. I initially just let it go and was willing to agree to disagree, but once some knew I wasn't a believer I started getting all kinds of stupid things from people about my lack of belief. Bible quizzes, do you love Jesus posts, and on and on. I cancelled my account, and don't miss it for a minute.

I think you have done a good job anyway.
Respectful, clear.
And yes, she'll have harder time with herself going apologetic about creationism.

Yeah I have had 3 or four of these little facebook duels now, but this is definitely the longest. At first it was kind of exhilarating to call people on their sh#t, but the novelty is beginning to wear off, and the replies are predictable enough that I could probably write them myself.

Again, we see the irony whenever an atheist is accused of 'arrogance'. The incredible arrogance on display in her posts, "I've had this subjective experience, so LOL at your 'facts' and 'evidence'."

Bleh. Five minutes talking to this woman would have me reaching for a baseball bat.

At the very least - I'm entertained by it! ;)

Yup. Despite this being good practice for me it does seem to be a waste of serious verbiage. So I hope at the very least someone else is at least getting some entertainment value out of the whole thing.

Thanks for keeping us updated B.O.B.! The wife seems to be a lost-cause, but hopefully others are reading your conversation that aren't lost-causes...

OK so the saga continues...

Her) (B.O.B.) you crack me up. I have got to thank you because I have had a wonderful time doing some much needed spiritual push ups!

Me) Well I am glad you got something out of our chat. It must take a lot of those push ups to continue performing the mental gymnastics required to manipulate every aspect of your perception of reality so that it fits into a preconceived conclusion. Especially one based solely on a decision to accept something as a fact despite there being no observable phenomena that support the probability of it having any basis in reality whatsoever. I am glad your faith is making you happy, and wish you well in the version of reality that you have chosen to inhabit. For me I think I will stick with the objective reality that exists for everyone regardless of belief, denial, or mythology. Thanks for taking the time to chat. Give my best to (Friend) and have a wonderful day.

Her) The amount of thought, energy, and defence you put into defending your educated Theory makes me wonder do you believe that what you believe is really real???

Me) It is not a question of belief. I simply accept that the overwhelming majority of credible evidence suggests that evolution is the most accurate explanation for the development of life based on what we currently know. If sufficient credible evidence is found that suggests another set of principles and events that offer a better explanation I will accept that as the best theory. As far as gods and religions go there is simply no way to support any of the claims they make. By definition they involve the supernatural and require faith (belief without evidence). I simply choose not to believe things for which there is no supporting evidence. If you choose to do so that is fine by me. I mostly get worried when people begin to believe that the particular supernatural explanation they have chosen to put their faith in gives them the right to determine the rights of other people who don't choose to share their faith. Or in this case when people of faith try to put things they choose to believe without evidence on equal footing with the observable scientific principles that modern life is based on. I think it is wrong to tell impressionable children that simply deciding something is true makes it just as credible as something based on generations of research, observation, and testing. Based on that standard not only would we have to consider all religions as true (even though they often contradict each other), but anyone can make up anything they choose to believe and it has to be treated as fact. If it makes you happy and you aren't trying to force others to live according to the moral code you have chosen more power to you. I will, however, continue to object when anyone claims that the creation myths of the particular brand of religion they have chosen should be considered as facts despite demonstrable evidence to the contrary.

Well I did not hear back from my buddy, but rather from his wife who I have never met. I am trying not to read too much into that. The follow up conversation is below for those who are interested. If I get another response I will let you all know, but I am not holding my breath. The initial reply was about what you would expect from someone whose blinders are firmly attached. I would certainly welcome any feedback on my argument as this is still a bit new to me. Thanks.

Her) http://creationwiki.org/Transitional_fossils

Her)I guess we could site the work other people all day. I was taught theory and fact were the same thing in grade school too. I have actually been touched by God and know He is with us. After having a relationship with Jesus someone elses guess about our creation just seems like a half hearted guess. Just sayin

Me)Not doubting your faith, but just to clear up some terminology. When you are using scientific terminology a theory is the best possible explanation given the evidence available. The term theory that is used in casual conversation when you mean just an idea that has not been explored, tested, peer reviewed etc. is actually a hypothesis in scientific terms. As such it is a bit disingenuous to refer to a scientific principle that is supported by the overwhelming preponderance of evidence available to humankind as "just a theory". A scientific theory that is supported by consistently testable, falsifiable, evidence (such as evolution) is essentially the closest you can get to what most people consider a fact. Because there simply is no such thing as absolute certainty. This is because we never have all of the information. The beauty of science is that it is always willing and able to adjust when new evidence is discovered. Although for someone seeking an absolutely and eternally certain explanation for something I know this can be frustrating. Regarding your source above I would suggest using sources that come from experts in the field in which a claim is being made. Using a theological expert to support claims about fossils is a bit like citing an English PHD as an expert on astrophysics. I would say that all opinions deserve equal respect, but when it comes to factual claims it is ridiculous to say that the assertions of people with decades of education, training and experience who are acknowledged experts in a field, and whose work has been reviewed and confirmed by other experts carry no more weight than those of someone with little or no familiarity with the subject matter. I don't doubt that you have had an experience of personal intensity and I respect your right to believe what you choose regarding its nature. However I find it concerning that someone can, based on an alleged, completely subjective experience decide that they are absolutely certain that they know the mysteries of the universe and based solely on their decision to accept this "understanding" as incontrovertible fact despite a complete lack of supporting evidence claim the right to determine what is and is not acceptable for not only themselves, but others. In closing let me reiterate that I completely support your right to believe in whatever dogma, doctrine, religion, or mythology makes you feel good, but I would caution you not to confuse faith with knowledge because they are not the same thing. Have a wonderful day.

Yeah, we could Zerg swarm them. ^^
Ain't no polite, no... ^^

But uh, if the context is suitable for arguing, it's usually a good thing to do so.
Some people will just close more, but some other will have their cognitive dissonance explode... Even if they agree to disagree, you may open a crack in their belief.
And sometimes a small crack is enough to let start everything.

It would be great if he has it settings for friends of friends, so your friends could help you. The downside was this guy started asking me if he knew me and what I was doing on his page and gladly offered to friend me. He's not even my friend's friend, I think they both play(ed) mafia wars, but I've got other shit cooking. I blocked my sister's updates for various reasons and haven't spoken to her since November, but I still look for pictures of my nephew. Her updates are almost all to do with her daily horoscope, which I just don't feel like it's a good idea to instigate anything over. The other day, she complained about the lucky number the app generated for her being "zero," and I so wanted to tell her that was the letter O. I checked it in notepad. I sure would like to say something but it's not a good idea, so I just block her updates on my feed instead.

I am not sure what his settings are. The way I see it the more people who get involved the better. If it gets out of hand I don't mind blocking people or whatever, and all of my settings are friends only so the worst case scenario shouldn't be too bad.

Do you know if your friend has his status open to only friends or friends of friends? I once followed a comment my friend had made to his friend's page and posted my comments to his page. He was on about the god-shaped hole and the longing. This was fun for a few days, and some of this friend of a friend's friends started to join in. It was spectacular. For a few days. Have an exit strategy, keep your head together before you go ahead and comment, look out for piles more willful ignorance from his other friends, be prepared for him not to want to be your friend anymore, or for him to post things you don't want on your page, might as well check your own settings and check if only friends can post on your wall or friends of friends or everyone. Anyway, you want to kind of know how much you'll take before you don't have time for it anymore and leave it alone when you feel you've given enough.

I recently engaged in a lengthy FB 'discussion' concerning the scientific process, the falsity of Christian philosophical naturalism, and origins. While I'm not sure I made much headway with the person I was debating (he finished with quotes from Mohler and Challies and when I kindly pointed out that neither were scientists he quit discussing; however, I did receive two messages from people in his extended family who I do not know and they both thanked me for correcting his argument fallacies and pointing him and them to some actual scientific resources.

Even if I don't get through to my friend, at least a couple of people were rewarded with some actual knowledge!

"Don't do it for your friend. Do it for the dozens or hundreds of people silently watching."

This! Couldn't agree more Ty.

Good point Ty. Hopefully at least some fence sitters will get exposed to some facts to help them make up their minds about whether or not to do the whole leap of faith thing. No response yet from my friend. We shall see.

Don't do it for your friend. Do it for the dozens or hundreds of people silently watching.

Ditto! Extend an invite and let us join in the education process :-p

I wouldn't have been able to resist correcting him either...

@B.O.B.: Be sure and keep us updated! I'm interested to know how this plays out...

Good luck.

Thanks all. @Nox, great links. I went ahead and posted them in my reply. Hopefully I will get some result other than *eyes closed and ears covered with hands* LALALALALALALALA JEEBUS JEEBUS JEEBUS!!!

"I could worship myself, but I'm not sure what that'll get me."

Get incorporated and you could get a tax write off for tithing to yourself (but the real money is in getting others to worship you).

If you don't want to spend countless pointless hours debating a creationist you could just forward these links:

http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/CC/CC200.html

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/homs/specimen.html

I just had a "conversation" at lunch with a co-worker who insisted that atheists worship something, even it is only themselves. I hate it when people try to tell me what I think and believe. I could worship myself, but I'm not sure what that'll get me.

Needless to say we agreed to disagree. For me, that seems to be working...they haven't tried to convert me lately. In fact, they try hard not to bring religion into the conversation when I'm around. I almost always know more about the bible than they do...that stumps them.

I think some people believe the things they believe because they have never heard better information (of course some will believe what they believe regardless of what they see that invalidates it). I don't know your friend, but I suspect he won't hear about fossil evidence for evolution in church. Silliness that is not questioned or confronted lives forever. So, no I don't think you have a duty to waste your time on this, but depending on how serious born again evangelical your friend is it may not be a waste of time to give him better information.

For something that pithy, I'd just reply
"Well, it's a good thing we've found so many then!"
...and leave it at that.

So an old friend of mine found Jesus while hanging out in a rehab center years ago, and is now a serious born again evangelical. I occasionally elicit some semi relevant uninformed knee jerk reactions from him by posting skeptical content on facebook. Today he posted the following status:

"Darwin suggests that if the fossil remains of evolution could not be found his theory of evolution is un suported and incorrect thus must be false. Keep lookin y'all."

Part of me wants to tear into this and debate the whole set of fallacies, assumptions and definitions from the ground up, but part of me knows it is likely a huge waste of time. Do you all think that we have some sort of duty to question or confront silliness like this?