My sympathies, Revy. Though I can't relate directly...All my grandparents were dead before I was three. You have fond memories of time, experiences and love shared to cherish. Peace.

Hugs, bro. I haven't had a grandmother to cherish in almost thirty years, and I still miss both of them.

Aww, big hugs. Losing good grandmas sucks.

Grandma passed peacefully last night. We'll have a funeral on Sunday, where the entire audience will be filled with liberal heathens, with her pastor (at her request) giving the final magic to make sure she gets to heaven. I honestly can't imagine how uncomfortable it will be for him, as they are well informed about the godlessness of the rest of her family. It will be an interesting day.

As to the topic I posted, thanks for your input. You have all disabused me of the notion that this could be beneficial to the church. My original idea, that someone might be swayed to the JW's might still be true, but after careful thought, I think that the net result would probably be negative for their cause.

Damn, I miss my grandma. If you still have one, or two, call them and tell them how much you love them.

Sorry about your grandmother Revy.

You are an analytic bastard. That's 42.36% of what I like about you.

I'm inclined to think this is neither good PR for the JWs, nor something they actively lobbied for. Not all press is good press. Some press makes you have to call press conferences. The catholic church has received some press in recent years that they definitely didn't want. Romney is mainstreaming mormonism right now (something they've wanted for a while) but in the long run, he is going to be very bad publicity for the mormon church. JWs currently deny the existence of official JW publications which anounce Jesus is coming back in 1915 and 1975. I don't know that it calls attention to the batshittiness of their beliefs. But I don't think this really helps them, at least not in any way I can see. Besides, for the most part, JWs are not converted. They are bred. Most are born in their current sect. The only people they convert are disenfranchised evangelicals, and even those in pathetically small numbers.

So here's what I think happened (Ursa, Custador and Noelle already mentioned most of this). The task of processing thousands of humans, unfortunately requires reducing humans to a checklist. I've never worked in any medical profession, but I've worked in a few jobs that involved the processing of thousands of humans every day. And I think the medical professionals here would agree with me about this. You often have to finish dealing with patient #547 quickly, since patient #548 is bleeding out in the next room. Even when you're dealing with emergencies, there are usually other emergencies in line.

Situations where someone needs a blood transfusion, would probably be situations where those transfusions need to be done as soon as possible. Things like blood type and whether a person will sue you for giving them a blood transfusion, are things you want to get out of the way quickly. From a doctor's perspective, getting a blood supply infused into a bleeding patient before you start other stuff can mean the difference between life and death. From an administrative perspective, it is cheaper to let a patient die than to deal with an expensive lawsuit.

Some of the questions on hospital forms are about how to treat a person (age, weight, allergies, medications, previous conditions, etc). Some of the questions on those forms are about how to process a person (name, social security number, insurance, etc). I think this has more to do with the order of questions than any marketing by JWs (intentional, etc).

Sorry Revy!! :( Dealing with religious stuff while losing a family member is something I understand. Had to go through that last summer when my darling Grandmother passed away.

*hugs*

Noelle, im not saying that they are intentionally trying to use this as a marketing ploy, but that it might work like that. But that begs the question, why the litigious behavior? From a spiritual standpoint, do they think that a lawsuit will remove the sin? If their belief is purely religious, why bother with secular law? I think that the church knows the old maxim 'any press is good press', and that having their name shoved into every family going through a death can only help them. The hospitals, trying to protect themselves, are duped into keeping their weird religion alive and growing.

BoTL said: "Can you tell them to "suck it", or do you have to be nice?"

Have you ever known me to react well to such things? Cultists who turn up trying to proselytize my dying patients do not get a warm reception from me.

Overanalyzing. JW's will sue the crap out of a hospital for accidentally treating a life-threatening hemorrhage appropriately. The hospital is protecting itself. Also, many people expect a little spiritual support while there, so an intake nurse for a hospitalized patient will routinely ask if they'd like some of that and what flavor.

Sorry about Gma. That's hard stuff.

I like that quote. :)

I've tackled them with that one before Ursa. They have a weird doctrine, they believe that the 144k Elect will go sit with god, and all of them will inherit the earth after it has been purged of non-believers. My dad used to think they wen't door to door not to convert, but to check out your stuff so they could grab it after you were destroyed by gods love.

Ok, maybe im seeing too much, but it just really struck me while sitting there going through the important questions to have them mentioned. It was like discussing the technical parts of a funeral request, and having someone mention 'and how would you like to handle protesters from Westboro Baptist Church?'
I can't remember who said it first, but I love the quote
"Live life in a way that Westboro will picket your funeral.

If I were on my deathbed, I would enjoy baiting any religious proselytizers who showed up uninvited. Especially Jehovah's Witnesses. The first thing I'd say to them is, "You have nearly 8 million members. Your religious leaders say that only 144,000 of you can go to Heaven. Why would I want to play those miserable odds?"

But that's me. Most people are not me, so they might not have as much fun with their visitors. Regardless of how I would handle it, I think showing up uninvited at the deathbed of a stranger to proselytize is, at best, supremely tasteless.

Can you tell them to "suck it", or do you have to be nice? I'm assuming you generally get the permission of the person they're coming to see before you allow them access? I'd be well annoyed if a JW turned up uninvited at my deathbed. Hell, I'd chase family out if they were only there to proselytise.

On a related note, on several occasions I've had JWs turn up on my ward asking to see patients who they didn't know but had heard were dying. I don't know if that's a common thing they do, but it's pretty disgusting.

Sorry to hear about your grandmother, Revy.

I'd have to agree with blotonthelandscape that you're being overanalytic. AFAIK, the Jehovah's Witnesses are not in control of the questions that the hospital asks, so it can't be a deliberate marketing ploy on their part. They're probably at the top of the list for logical reasons (i.e., they have the biggest, most difficult-to-work-around restriction on their medical care). You would never think to ask this question of a Presbyterian because refusing certain types of medical care is not part of their belief system.

But I agree with you that having the name flashed does draw attention to it. It's unintentional PR, but PR nonetheless. If I were the person filling out the form, it would be negative PR, because it would immediately remind me that "Oh, yeah, those are the people who can't be effectively treated for traumatic injuries or surgical complications. Sucks to be them." Other people's mileage may differ.

I think you're overanalyzing. If anything that question draws attention to the bat-shit-craziness that passes for JW beliefs, so when they make their deathbed altar-call that info is fresh with the insanity inherent in the religion.

I'm not sure the 'religious views' question is necessary though. A more secular question could be phrased something like "do you have any other special considerations you would like to make us aware of?"

My grandma is dying. She has a 'do not revive' order, and she's suffering a mild heart attack that will kill her in an hour, a day, maybe a week. She's in hospice care, and is receiving great care an comfort while the family keeps making visits, waiting for the inevitable.

Here's why I'm an analytic bastard. While she was being admitted at the hospital, I was there while the nurse asked all the pertinent questions. Blood type, past surgeries, allergies, etc, and "are you a Jehovah's Witness?". After this came the personal info, next of kin, emergency contact, and 'what is your religion' (grandma is a Methodist, probably the last religious family member I have.) I was struck by how brilliant of a PR move this is for the Jehovah's witness'. By having their weird request to refuse all blood transfusions, they get their church name stuck up with all the important questions, and all the other religions get dumped down in the soft questions at the bottom of the form.

Am I just over analyzing this, or is this a great marketing ploy for the JW's? I know it wouldn't influence me to consider their faith, but consider someone with a marginal, non-denominational belief in Jesus. I think that having their religion placed so prominently at the top of the form is going to have impact on some of the people who come to sit vigil over their loved ones. Then, when they come a-knockin' a few weeks later, they have a fresh mind that is prepped for their message.