Kind of like Erhman for unbelievers!

Yep, his books are pretty good for those who already believe. For those who don't, they're just the usual unconvincing stuff.

Thumbs up: Keller's Book, "The Reason for God." Also good is Keller's "The Prodigal God."

hehe, i used to post on a forum of Lewis fans, even though I myself hadn't read many of his books. That forum was to me what Daniel's Liberal Theology course was to him.

He believed pets go to heaven, because in being domesticated they become more human, and gain a soul. In the same sense he believed people who became christians became like angels (the next rung up the ladder). He believed this in a literal manner.

He also introduced me to the idea that I can dislike a book of the bible (he wrote a whole book about why he disliked Psalms).

I have a book by Tim Keller called "The Reason for God". I managed to get half-way through the introduction without vomiting. Maybe I'll try again sometime. The main thrust was "Ooh, look at me. *Sting voice* WO WO I'm an alien! I'm an illegal alien, I'm conservative in New York! That's gotta count for something right?"

What he appears to be saying at the end of the lewis quote is "If we surround ourselves with people who confirm our beliefs in zombies, we will continue to believe in zombies." Well, duh?

This sort of reasoning is based on a false premise, because it assumes that without the church we could still reach at least some aspect of Jesus on our own; have some form of relationship with him. I am yet to experience this myself, and have never met a person whose experience of God began before they met a christian/read a bible/went to church. When you take that all away, you are left WITHOUT a relationship with god. You are left either an atheist, or a schizophrenic.

So what he's saying is not wrong, per se, it just misses the point, because it's based on a false premise i.e. people join a church after they form a relationship with god. The opposite is true.

I'd argue more Christians are in accord with that account of Christianity than it would appear by examining the evangelical movement. I might also tentatively extend the argument that even if evangelicals do not entirely agree with the aforementioned positions, their appreciation for Mr. Lewis could very well a) swing them in that direction, and b) reflect the subconscious knowledge that their more radical positions could be tempered a bit without losing the things they like about their particular brand of evangelicalism.

Well, you aren't. Do you count as most?

"C.S. Lewis: a man most Christians love and look to for inspiration, yet who was sensible enough to realize most of the OT was myth; that hell wasn't a literal place; thought some non-xians would go to heaven; believed in theistic evolution; and that the bible wasn't infallible."

Funny, those are exactly the reasons I always liked him. Maybe a sign that most Christians aren't as loony as they seem? o.O

Daniel my man....my bad, but you understood the thrust of what I was saying. Subtract one point from my side.

Did I quote C.S. Lewis? I agree, like all of us, he was right about some things & wrong about others.

Daniel"

"C.S. Lewis: a man most Christians love and look to for inspiration, yet who was sensible enough to realize most of the OT was myth; that hell wasn't a literal place; thought some non-xians would go to heaven; believed in theistic evolution; and that the bible wasn't infallible."

I'm not sure that quoting CS Lewis does a whole lot to bolster you fundy atheists beliefs. Even after all of the above, Lewis was still an ardent beleiver and defender of the faith. Of course, being human, and fallible, he probably got some things right and somethings wrong. Hopefully for a lot of people, he was right about hell (and I include myself in that group).

C.S. Lewis: a man most Christians love and look to for inspiration, yet who was sensible enough to realize most of the OT was myth; that hell wasn't a literal place; thought some non-xians would go to heaven; believed in theistic evolution; and that the bible wasn't infallible.

Not that the rest of his superstitious beliefs were sensible, but I do find it ironic how much Christians adore him. If Jack were still living and those xians realized what he believed, they would be condemning him as a false teacher and heretic. (Of course, there are Christians who do that now as those fundies do love themselves some heretics!)

Christians commonly say they want a relationship with Jesus, that they want to "get to know Jesus better." You will never be able to do that by yourself.

Because he's not real, so believers need to mutually reinforce their delusion by getting together and talking about their imaginary friend. Left by themselves their "relationship with Jesus" won't change because they're just talking to the ceiling.

Ok...

C.S. Lewis was part of a famous circle of friends called the Inklings, which included J.R.R. Tolkien, the author of "The Lord of the Rings," and also the author Charles Williams, who died unexpectedly after World War II. In his book "The Four Loves," Lewis wrote a striking meditation on his death in an essay entitled "Friendship."

" In each of my friends there is something that only some other friend can fully bring out. By myself I am not large enough to call the whole man into activity; I want other lights than my own to show all his facets. Now that Charles [ Williams ] is dead, I shall never again see Ronald's [ Tolkien's ] reaction to a specifically Charles joke. Far from having more of Ronald, having him "to myself" now that Charles is away, I have less of Ronald...In this, Friendship exhibits a glorious "nearness by resemblance" to heaven itself where the very multitude of the blessed ( which no man can number ) increases the fruition which each of us has of God. For every soul, seeing Him in her own way, doubtless communicates that unique vision to all the rest. That, says an old author, is why the Seraphim in Issiah's vision are crying "Holy, Holy, Holy" to one another ( Isaiah 6:3 ). The more we thus share the Heavenly Bread between us, the more we shall have."

Lewis is saying that it took a community to know an individual. How much more would this be true of Jesus Christ? Christians commonly say they want a relationship with Jesus, that they want to "get to know Jesus better." You will never be able to do that by yourself. You must be deeply involved in the church, in Christian community, with strong relationships of love and accountability. Only if you are part of a community of believers seeking to resemble, serve, and love Jesus will you ever get to know him and grow into his likeness."

Excerpt from Tim Keller's "The Prodigal God."