I'm very open about my atheism, and I won't participate in prayer, in any venue. I most especially will not recite the 1954 version of the Pledge of Allegiance, which added the words "under God" and which is a) unnecessary and b) clearly a violation of the Establishment Clause. If I find myself at some ceremonial occasion such as a wedding or funeral where a prayer is invoked, I stand silently. I am also silent at family holiday gatherings when somebody says grace before the meal.

So far, no one has questioned me. If I were challenged, I would probably simply point out that it's not my religion, and that I decline to participate. If pressed, I would inquire as to why the questioner was being so rude. If pressed further, I can see myself asking if they'd mind if I substituted "Flying Spaghetti Monster" or "Invisible Pink Unicorn" for "God"/"Jesus"/"Allah" to make my point. Recite whatever ritual you want and I will stand there quietly and won't complain, but if you start insisting that I have to follow suit to be polite, you have picked a fight and are going to be mocked.

That said, I like secularized holidays for their food, fun and festivities. I was raised Dutch Reformed Protestant, but I find that if I have to attend a religious event, I'm most comfortable with Jewish ceremonies. I'd much rather be in temple than in church. I have a lot of Jewish friends so there is always a bat or bar mitzvah on the calendar. Everybody there knows I'm one of the goyim to begin with, so they more or less expect me to just stand there when the prayers come up, and nobody bats an eyelash.

If they remove the Nine Nights religious aspect from it, then I'm pretty sure it could evolve into a fairly innocuous event (although, truth be told, I wouldn't say it has any major detrimental effects as it's pretty much a party). My position is that we should preserve a lot of benign rituals but just be rational about it.

Well like I said I don't know anything about that particular tradition. There are all kinds of traditions regarding the grieving process, and most came about in an effort to help people cope with loss and move on with their lives, and any supernatural stuff was just tacked on as the justification. Personally, I'd have no problem getting together with family, but I wouldn't be reciting any prayers or rituals about the afterlife. I can't think of one good reason to do so.

Also, I do not subscribe to the belief that people "should" preserve traditions. You may preserve your cultural traditions as much as you like. But nobody ever has any grounds to tell someone else they should observe some ritual, since declining to participate in rituals harms absolutely nobody.

Interestingly, I just had a dinner guest tonight who was lamenting at how strict her cultural group is regarding traditions (she's from a Lebanese Christian background). She doesn't want to observe the rituals but she's almost forced into it by her family. And it has nothing to do with belief, it was entirely about observing their cultural traditions. It was an unfortunate reminder of how far some people have yet to come.

Well, other than the usual Christmas/Easter (which have nothing at all religious about it but origin), when I find myself in a church I surely don't pray (I just stay there with my eyes open and watch whoever's faking it) but I do sing (because I like singing so *shrug* even if the hymns are pretty lame). The only times I'm somewhat compelled to observe it is if my mother's around - because she doesn't know of my atheism (rather, she knows, but is happy to ignore it) and I usually don't want to be picked on. Otherwise, no.

I'm not usually exposed to religious tradition, though, so there's that.

"You mention the secularisation of Easter and Christmas for example. Doesn't this show that even if a ritual had its roots steeped deeply in mysticism that it can be rectified into something relatively benign? If they remove the Nine Nights religious aspect from it, then I'm pretty sure it could evolve into a fairly innocuous event (although, truth be told, I wouldn't say it has any major detrimental effects as it's pretty much a party). My position is that we should preserve a lot of benign rituals but just be rational about it."

Sure, but no one is thinking about Ishtar worship during Easter. I think there needs to be a certain cultural distancing before you can call a celebration truly 'secularized.' You could hardly consider saying a New Testament prayer during a spiritual ceremony to have the same religious neutrality as eating a painted egg has.

@ Jeremy: I said I only ever recite it in a group/community setting. Never by myself. It's kind of like singing "God Save the Queen" over here. I mean, I don't think God exists nor do I think the Queen is more worthy of saving than anyone else, but if everyone else starts singing it, I'd feel a little awkward just keeping my mouth shut. Hell, I guarantee that most Atheists and Agnostics in Britain would sing it.

Oh and Nine Nights(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nine_nights) are mainly a Jamaican or Trinidadian thing. In Great Britain they make up the majority of the West Indian community, so naturally I'd be dragged off to their events when I was a child. So to an extent I have a soft part for things off that nature based upon my childhood. And I partially agree with you on a few points. I think those who play the defenders in a cultural war are generally going to lose. But even so, some aspects of culture (no matter how steeped they are in mysticism and woo) should be preserved to a degree. If we remove the superstitious factor from them as we've done to Christmas and Easter in the UK, then it just becomes another happy occasion with generally little negative effects.

You mention the secularisation of Easter and Christmas for example. Doesn't this show that even if a ritual had its roots steeped deeply in mysticism that it can be rectified into something relatively benign? If they remove the Nine Nights religious aspect from it, then I'm pretty sure it could evolve into a fairly innocuous event (although, truth be told, I wouldn't say it has any major detrimental effects as it's pretty much a party). My position is that we should preserve a lot of benign rituals but just be rational about it.
Keep Christmas, but be rational that the divine birth of Christ didn't happen. Keep Easter for the Easter eggs for children but be rational that Jesus never rose from the dead. Keep Nine Nights, but be rational that no duppies (patois for spirits) would be sent away to the spirit realm. I could go on, but you get the picture.

I have a similar reaction to Ty, though maybe not as strong. But I feel no compulsion to partake in any religious ritual of any kind. If I was ever "expected to pray" the other people present could expect to receive a one-finger salute.

It's probably easier for me though, coming from a white protestant family in Canada. Outside the bible belt North American society is fairly secular. There aren't a lot of religious rituals that everyone is expected to observe. Christmas and Easter have been so thoroughly secularized (huzzah for the War on Christmas!) that I can celebrate them almost identically to nearly any religious person and yet never have to engage in any religious activity.

Your "Nine Nights" example (I'd never heard of it) is something I certainly wouldn't feel any need to observe. I don't view cultural traditions that were based in ignorance and superstition (ie sending someone's soul to the afterlife) to be something worth preserving. In fact "culture" is generally not something I feel anyone should need to defend. Cultures change (thank goodness), and those who fight to keep things they way they used to be are fighting a losing battle.

I do have one question. You say you occasionally recite the Lord's Prayer to yourself, yet you are "not superstitious". Then why do you do it? Surely the fact that you know you're only talking to yourself would be enough to kill any feeling of remaining tied to your cultural past?

I find myself extremely allergic to any of the rituals involved in faith now. Hymns annoy me, and public praying makes me want to leave the room.

Yeah, Muslims have a ton of rituals. I don't pray usually or fast but I sometimes do it in public gatherings. I never felt a sense of community though. I felt like I stuck out like a sore thumb and pretty bored. Apart from Eid. I get money from my relatives at Eid. So, that's pretty awesome.

But do any of you ever participate in any cultural aspects of religious belief?

Absolutely. I'm particularly fond of any tradition that involves food or drink (I'm a sucker for a good Passover seder meal; what particularly helps there is that Passover strikes me more of a political story of a people fleeing oppression than a strictly religious tale). On the rare occasions when I find myself in a church, I tend to sing along with the congregational hymns.

Usually I participate for two reasons: either it's good fun, or the event calls for solemnity (and nobody does solemn better than religious ceremony). As such, for example, I appreciate funereal rituals and participate when I'm at a funeral/wake/sitting shiva/whatever because the rituals give structure to something that desperately needs it.

This topic has probably already been made, so sorry if it has.

I've known there wasn't a God for at least most of my life, although I did at once think that some ethereal life force existed, but now I'm pretty damn sceptical of that and identify as an Atheist.

Now here's the thing, I'm part African and part Caribbean, and both sides are incredibly religious. On the occasion that I do happen to go to a Caribbean or African event, religion plays a massive role in it.
Even though quite a few of them know I'm irreligious and have for the most part accept it, whenever I go to a function I'm expected to pray. Funnily enough, sometimes I don't mind it.

I don't think I'm alone in believing that many of us have come from backgrounds where religion is an integral part of the culture. But do any of you ever participate in any cultural aspects of religious belief?

For example, I wouldn't ever pray seriously as I think it will never bring forth results, but just recently I noticed the significance of certain rituals in my life. In some Caribbean islands we have something called "Nine Nights" whereby whenever someone dies, nine nights after the death we have a send off where we invite all the family, friends and well-wishers to celebrate their lives. The rationale behind this is that if they don't perform the Nine Night the soul would stay behind in this realm. Most of them don't believe the latter, but still consider it very important. I also do like this aspect. Hell, I don't believe in an immortal soul or an afterlife, but if I were to die now I would love for my family to do one for me.

Also, with regards to prayer, at certain events I do bow my head and say the Lord's Prayer if I'm in the mood. Perhaps it's because I see it as a community solidarity mechanism or just want to feel part of the group.

I'm not superstitious, but I think sometimes these things are important if one wants to retain some cultural links with their heritage.

So the question is, do you think it's acceptable to partake in some Christian rituals and events even though you might be an Atheist or Agnostic? And more importantly, I want to hear from the more militant or hardline Atheists; would you partake in any of these cultural aspects?