I am currently in the Army ROTC program at a university and plan on serving my country in the future. An interesting conversation came up during our class. My instructor, who is a Major (just got promoted) and is a decorated Apache pilot, was teaching the class one day and the topic of religion came up. Of course there were two sides to this argument as always, and one cadet pointed out that he was an atheist. My instructor was in a sense, shocked. He was shocked because this cadet was enrolled in the army, where your life is always on the line, and does not believe in a religion. The instructor, out of curiosity, questioned the cadet on how he is able to face death without believing on some type of afterlife. Please keep in mind that this instructor had no evangelical purposes and was just doing this out of curiosity. The cadet had no answer to this question and the class went on. A couple days ago, I was watching CNN, and saw how a marine corporal was being baptized in Iraq. I related the conversation in class and this news I was watching and I thought is it human nature in times of drastic need to believe in a God. Is it in the face of death that I will be able to realize that a God exists? Or do I NEED to believe in a God to keep myself together and not breakdown in the face of imminent death or trials? Will believers and nonbelievers only understand what God is only seconds before our death?
Human Nature
(20 posts) (13 voices)-
Joe B
MemberUnderstanding or buckling to fear and reaching out for any chance to keep living no matter how unsupported the view is.
Humans generally want to live. I think that's something that both sides of a theist/atheist debate would agree to. To me it would seem to be a simpler explanation to extend that to the "no atheists in foxholes" claim than to say it supports a point in contention and unproven (existence of deities).
Posted 3 years ago # -
Kodie
MemberNot at all. Some people rely on the comfort of a higher power, prayer, an afterlife, and in desperate situations where your job is dangerous, and you might never see your family again, it is a common situation to want to find comfort in something. It is not necessary to believe in god to have your focus or to feel just fine and accepting. It might be because of the pressure that an otherwise non-religious person may decide to see signs and signals, listen to his buddies talking about god because there's nobody else to talk to, and find such beliefs comforting, but they're not necessary. We had a discussion on the blog called "How do Atheists Face Despair?" based on a question posed by a Christian for us to comment individually. It's definitely not necessary to believe in god to get through.
I don't know about human nature - humans do tend to believe certain coincidences must have some supernatural intervention, and create religions for various reasons. Part of that is trying to grasp humility and ignorance, inventing elaborate reasons why we exist, and how we're supposed to behave while we're here.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Bush and Cheney and their cronies manipulated the sense of kum-by-ah to their cynical, putrid advantage, using fake patriotism and morality to coerce the nation to accept their agenda.
What do you think happened, dwade?
Posted 3 years ago # -
Jabster
MemberMultiple laws where acted in the name of fighting terrorism which have gone on to be used for anything but terrorism. We may not be safer in the UK but at least the local council has the powers to perform surveillance operations on its own subjects for such heinous crimes as not putting the right rubbish in your bins.
Posted 3 years ago # -
I believe we had the bejeevers scared out of us, and everyone was seeking refuge, people were clingy and needy. I had a neighbor run out of her house screaming, "we are all going to die"....she was panic stricken.
We happen to be next to one of the largest airforce bases in the country and just shortly after 9/11 two jets broke the sound barrier, sounded like a large explosion over our heads, we thought we were doomed that day. Everyone sitting around watching the news trying to piece it all together.
All of Washington was in fear and confusion. There were no God skeptics present on that day.
Posted 3 years ago # -
"There were no God skeptics present on that day."
Excuse me while I vomit.
So nineteen people hijack airplanes and kill thousands in the name of a god, and you have the nerve to say, "there were no God skeptics present on that day".
Further, where do you think your God was while thousands were killed?!
No God skeptics on that day?
I think you owe us an apology.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Dwade, it's just that I think you would be offended if one of us looked at the horrible suffering somewhere in the world, and said something like this:
"Well, I guess there were no theists in Taiwan today where there were sixty people killed in a single mudslide."
How would that make you feel?
Posted 3 years ago # -
JamesIV
MemberDwade, your god knew that 9/ll would happen, and he let it happen - he knew that The Battle of Stalingrad, The Rape of Nanking, and ten thousand years of continuous brutal human atrocities would happen - and he let them happen. Dwade, I would be a lot happier - and I sincerely believe that you would be a lot happier - if you picked a more cuddly god to worship and believe, and to guide your way in life. What you need is Lord Gnesha, but's that only my opinion. Look, just try Gnesha for a fortnight - no strings - he doesn't exist and he won't give a flying-monkey's scrotum either way. ..... He's cool that way.
Posted 3 years ago # -
JamesIV
Memberto JJx508 - maybe we have hijacked your original question, I don't know. If you are about to serve your country, then I salute you. I know that this is not the place for "political" conjecture, so my comments must be terse. Do your duty because that it is expected of you. The fear of imminent death might not be something that you can lay store against. I wish you every good luck and good fortune - I respect you - keep posting!
Posted 3 years ago # -
Ty
ModeratorI've actually done jobs that are statistically more dangerous than working in the US military.
I worked at a rock quarry once for a few months where two people were killed in the short time I was there. I've worked in the timber industry, which is statically the third most dangerous job there is, right after commercial fishing and mining. I know a lot of loggers who've died or lost limbs in the woods.
My point is not to trivialize the danger in serving in our military. That danger definitely exists. But it isn't the only job where a person might die in the line of duty. And you'll note that being a firm Christian is not generally considered a requirement for taking a job in a coal mine, or falling timber.
People risk their lives for the welfare of society all the time. I think it lessens their sacrifice to assume that they only do it if they're promised an eternal reward.
Posted 3 years ago # -
rodneyAnonymous
MemberI am stating that everyone one was neutral on that day. (like the atheist in the fox hole statement)
"There are no atheists in foxholes" is not a neutral statement. It implies that, deep down, when the cards are all on the table, no one is an atheist / everyone believes in gods.
Posted 3 years ago # -
Nelly
MemberI guess I fall into the category of risking my life for fun. I was a recreational sky-diver for 4 years. I never stopped or questioned when friends in the sport died, and I wasn't exactly thinking about god or anybody else when my main chute split in two. I was too busy trying to cut away and get my reserve out. I could have just as easily impacted the ground in the middle of all that. God nor anything else crossed my mind, I was preoccupied with saving my ass.
Posted 3 years ago # -
There remain many unresolved questions of human nature. Like it or not, as a species, we're still on the learning curve. And that vaccumn of ignorance, depending upon how one sees it, sets up a number of contradictions as we attempt to fill that space. However or whatever one believes, religious or atheists, it is pretty difficult not to know of the variety of religious narratives that have been woven into history, however worn or implausible it may look to us now. Even without religion, literature, both high and low, from Peter Pan to Lord of the rings to Shakespeare describes 'death' as everything from the next big adventure to a time for profound reflection on the nature of existence and what we are as a species.
So anyone finding themselves confronting the prospect of final destruction, in conflict or illness, and has the time ponder cannot, who has crossed paths with any of the various religous/spiritutal/mythological paths that abound within culture, cannot help to wonder what that unknown 'end' means.
If nothing else, it means our understanding is incomplete. And filling the void with whatever prejudices are on offer off the cultural shelf probably won't get us very far!
Posted 3 years ago # -
I think 9/11 was a big turning point in that it made me question all religious beliefs. How could people do such horrible things in the name of something that is supposed to be peaceful? Do they really belive that killing people is for good? How can that be logically or emotionally justified? How have other religions done similar things in the past and justified them in the name of God?
Throughout history, similar things have happened everywhere, but I wasn't around then and they didn't affect me or my thoughts on religion. 9/11 did.
Posted 3 years ago #
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