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1. 

   elivent
   Member

   Hey, all. This is a pretty random question and kind of a long shot, but I'm trying to figure out a riddle and I'm totally stumped.

   Does anybody have any clue how chestnuts would tie into the Robin Hood myth? Specifically, Robin Hood as mentioned in Walter Scott's Ivanhoe?

   Here are the lines:

   A chestnut gentle makes me sentimental,
   For those glorious stories of yore.
   Of the days in the glen, when men were men,
   Och! Have I become a prodigious bore?

   There were lines in yesterday's riddle that seemed to point to Robin Hood to me, and this kind of backs it up - "days of yore", obviously, and "days in the glen", as well as the specific Scottish exclamation and the allusion to the fact that - if it IS referencing him - Scott was considered by many to be a very ponderous, wordy writer. I have this vague tickling at the back of my mind that says that I've read something Robin Hood-related that...had to do with chestnuts...but...that just sounds moronic. I've been reduced to looking up the history of the spread of the chestnut around the world.

   Anyway, it's for this St. Paul yearly medallion hunt thing - they hide a small medallion in a park somewhere around the city that's worth several thousand dollars, and post riddles as clues. The clues are supposed to get progressively more specific, and discussion is strongly encouraged. I'm not actually looking in parks, since I can't get off work, but working on the riddles is pretty fun. If you have any ideas, I'd love to hear them.

   P.S. There's always a chance that phrases like "chestnut gentle" and "prodigious bore" are anagrams, but I seriously don't have a clue.

   Posted 2 years ago #
2. 

   Kodie
   Member

   I looked this up online to see the earlier clues... are the little movies supposed to be clues or just reading them? The inflatable man in the public bathroom was a little confusing!

   Day 2 clue seemed to be about paperboys or a paper route or at least something to do with a newspaper. I don't know St. Paul so it's hard for me to figure out what these lines mean geographically. How many clues until the hunt ends?

   Posted 2 years ago #
3. 

   elivent
   Member

   I'm not even sure what the little videos are - my internet's been too slow to watch them. They do look strange, though.

   I got much the same thing from the day 2 clue - seemed like it was referencing the editor of the Pioneer Press, the Press's dispatch center and daily circulation (which could mean that the medallion is IN a mail bag or a copy of the paper or something), and highwaymen ("stand and deliver").

   I think they just keep posting clues until someone finds it. Seems like the average is 7-8 days.

   Posted 2 years ago #
4. 

   Kodie
   Member

   The last 2 lines of the day 2 clue says to me that newspaper is not going to be delivered to anyone's house. Maybe inside newspaper box. Chestnuts for day 3 sounds like the name of a street or a tree or even if you have roasted chestnut vendors in the city. I think the whole day 3 is metaphorical, don't know what Robin Hood has to do with St. Paul. Stories of yore, men were men... cigar store? Not necessarily a very long time ago, but thinking of a place newspapers are sold and go out of date, stories of yore, like yesterday's news or anything to do with antiques or used items.

   Had to look up prodigious in the dictionary to get clues. A prodigious bore could be someone that tells long boring stories that go nowhere (no, I do not have the medallion!) or something like a big drill even (is some street being dug up?). The dictionary definition hints maybe at obsolescence as well. I don't like to think of things that might send you in the wrong direction, but if it's hidden in a location that can't be found accidentally, there's only so much help someone who has never been to St. Paul can give, not knowing your streets, landmarks, and shopping centers, etc. It may have something to do with Robin Hood or Scotland, but that might be just a red herring.

   Posted 2 years ago #
5. 

   elivent
   Member

   Well, it can't be delivered to a house, because the rules say that it has to be hidden in a city park. I've only lived around here since August, and I'm down in the suburbs anyway, so I'm not the greatest reference for places around town, either.

   The "prodigious bore" really, really seemed like a Walter Scott reference, because that was basically how people came to think of him once his popularity had died down.

   Oddly enough, right by the Pioneer Press dispatch station there are two parks - Robin Hood Park and Sherwood Park.

   If that's a red herring, it's the best damn red herring I've ever seen. *headdesk*

   Unfortunately, there aren't any street names having to do with chestnuts in the area. Maybe it just means that whichever park it's in is the one that's 1)wooded, and 2)specifically wooded with chestnut trees?

   Posted 2 years ago #
6. 

   Kodie
   Member

   I wouldn't take my word on it that it's a red herring. I don't know the names of your parks as well as you do! I used to do these kinds of puzzles a lot and I'm used to misdirection in the hints though. If it seems really obvious it has to be in one of the Robin Hood-named park only by Day 3, depending how big these parks are, it just seems it's either obviously there or obviously meant to send everyone looking in these parks who can't think around the clue. How likely do you think it's a really big unavoidable hint? How many people do you think would recognize the phrases as having to do with Robin Hood? I feel like there's a "theme" of the clue - Robin Hood, that's either a huge big honking clue or meant to distract from the words of the clue. Not knowing the geography still, I'm not going to think of something that might be obvious, and if you're not going into the city to look for it, you might miss visual clues that match the words while you're there. For instance, you might be aware of the park but not know about a particular statue or monument or the name of a shop across the street on one side or what they sell until you place yourself in it, and match up all the clues.

   Posted 2 years ago #
7. 

   elivent
   Member

   Sorry for the slow response. I'm just working on this for fun - I'm probably not going to be engaging in any actual hunting at all. :)

   Today's clue just didn't make any sense without a specific park to look in, so I think I'm going to give this a rest for now and see where other people end up. There's almost NOTHING on the discussion boards about Robin Hood, which is equal parts disheartening and interesting - if it isn't a common idea, does that make it more or less likely? Guess it's too early to tell. Thanks for the help, though!

   Posted 2 years ago #
8. 

   Custador
   Moderator

   The legend of his death was that he fired an arrow out of a window and was buried under the tree his arrow hit. Maybe that was a chestnut?

   Posted 2 years ago #
9. 

   JonJon
   Member

   Chestnut can be used to refer to a chestnut-colored horse. S'all I got.

   Posted 2 years ago #
10. 

    Custador
    Moderator

    Rewind though: Ivanhoe was not Robin Hood. Different mythology.

    Posted 2 years ago #
11. 

    Eudaimonist
    Member

    I might be off - but I think a chestnut gentle might not be referring to an actual chestnut but a person with chestnut hair or something of the sort. Especially because it doesn't make sense for an actual chestnut to make anyone yearn for the days of yore.

    Posted 2 years ago #
12. 

    elivent
    Member

    @Custador - Ivanhoe wasn't Robin Hood, but Robin of Locksley makes a pretty important appearance in the book.

    I think I'm going with the "chestnut gentle" as a chestnut-colored horse for now, too. It makes more sense than anything else so far. :)

    Posted 2 years ago #
13. 

    Custador
    Moderator

    To be honest I'd be more inclined to leaned towards the story of Robert Burns from that riddle. It's obviously referring to something Scotts rather than something English - "Glen" is a Scotts word, and is "Och". Days of yore can only mean historical, and in Scotland the most obvious would be Rob Roy, William Wallace or Robert Burns.
    The "prodigious" part makes me think artist, somebody who produces written works. "Wee tremlin' timerous beastie" is an old chestnut, as is Auld Lang Syn - both written by Robert Burns. And Burns night was yesterday. So yeah, Robert Burns.

    Posted 2 years ago #
14. 

    Custador
    Moderator

    The more I think about it, the more I think this is to do with Robert Burns and Auld Lang Syn - a song about what has happened in the past year and how we should forget our attachment to it .

    Posted 2 years ago #
15. 

    vorjack
    Moderator

    Seconding Burns, particularly since it comes so close to his birthday (Jan. 25)

    Searching for "prodigious bore" has turned up this conversation, plus some others about the contest. Weird.

    Posted 2 years ago #
16. 

    elivent
    Member

    Sir Walter Scott was from Edinburgh, though, wasn't he? And his critics, later in life, accused him of being too wordy and boring, I think.

    There were things that seemed Robin Hood-ish to me in the other clues. Specifically, there was a line that said something about people from [newspaper] circulation "standing and delivering" each morning, which I took to be a reference to the old phrase highwaymen used to use ("stand and deliver": stop and give up your valuables) - i.e., they hand out the newspapers each morning. The Pioneer Press dispatch center in St. Paul is very close to two parks: Robinhood Park and Sherwood Park.

    So even if this stanza alone sounds like it's referencing Burns (which it really does), I have to tie it to the rest of the riddles. Hence the problem with the chestnut thing (and, actually, "when men were men", since it's such a bastardized phrase now that its origins seem to be almost completely obscured), because if I can't relate it to anything else, then it's a loose reference that could unravel the whole theory. Alas. Could very well be that I have fatal tunnel vision. :(

    Posted 2 years ago #
17. 

    westy3789
    Member

    I looked around Burns Park in Saint Paul, going off your reference, but I couldn't find anything except a few deer, a frozen squirrel, and an old towel :(

    Posted 2 years ago #
18. 

    Nox
    Member

    Are there chestnut trees in Highland Park?

    Posted 2 years ago #
19. 

    elivent
    Member

    Urgh. I wish I knew. I've also wondered if it was referring to any kind of bore weevil identified in parks around the city, though that seems like a big stretch.

    Posted 2 years ago #
20. 

    Nox
    Member

    Well, it's probably nothing. Just a random hunch. But knowing very little about St. Paul, there was very little I could decipher from these clues.

    For anyone else looking at this the first 3 clues are:

    CLUE 1
    Hanging like vultures, the icicle sculptures
    Show the Vulcans to be most artistic
    But forget your worries and find a park amid the flurries
    You have reasons to be optimistic

    As the cold wind blows through our record snows
    In this land of the dammed and ice
    We bid you fair welcome, whether heaven or hell come,
    To hunt treasure that's sure to suffice

    CLUE 2
    Through the stormy seas, minding our Qs and Ps,
    He captained a steady ship
    With purpose clear he made us cheer
    Or at least keep a stiff upper lip

    Move with elation like folks from circulation
    Each morn they stand and deliver
    Take many more steps away from your doorsteps
    Like carriers, hunters must shiver

    CLUE 3
    A chestnut gentle makes me sentimental,
    For those glorious stories of yore.
    Of the days in the glen, when men were men,
    Och! Have I become a prodigious bore?

    Could "the icicle sculptures" from the first clue be a reference to the snow sculpting competition at the Saint Paul Winter Carnival? One of the awards given out at this is called the "Vulcan's Choice Award" ("show the vulcans to be most artistic").

    http://www.winter-carnival.com/

    https://winter-carnival.amm.clockwork.net/client_files/Images/events/2011/Snow_Carvings/2011_SnowSculpting_details_2011-1-11.pdf

    Posted 2 years ago #
21. 

    Custador
    Moderator

    Clue one might refer to icicles or stalactites (Vulcanism - volcanos) and probably somewhere where there are birds. A lake with fowl living on it perhaps?

    Clue two... Any famous captains of industry in your area? Or maybe a reference to an English sea captain? Stiff upper-lip... Winston Churchill related? The rest of it sounds like either the Post Office or newspaper delivery people.

    Clue three... Robert burns, chestnut trees... Or maybe a park where there are carriage rides drawn by a chestnut horse?

    Posted 2 years ago #
22. 

    UrsaMinor
    Member

    I'd have to agree with Custy. "A chestnut gentle" seems likely to refer to a horse, as those of the arboreal persuasion are not usually noted for their behavior.

    Posted 2 years ago #
23. 

    elivent
    Member

    Well, thanks for the input, guys. I have to admit that I've pretty much given up. Had I the time and the means to tramp through various parks, and if I had somehow miraculously found the medallion, you all would have thoroughly deserved cuts from the prize.

    Posted 2 years ago #
24. 

    Kodie
    Member

    there aren't any street names having to do with chestnuts in the area

    I looked on Google Earth - there's a N. Chestnut St. that runs into an Old Chestnut St. The whole riverfront seems to be part of Cherokee Heights Park, or Irvine Park is also near to these streets. There is also a Sherman St. that runs perpendicular to the river near the Chestnut streets, if you want to pursue the "Sherman Forest" Robin Hood thing.

    The last few clues seem to do with ice skating. On the first day, it said "dammed" with 2 Ms and not "damned", so I'd go to the river. I'm still looking into this.

    Posted 2 years ago #
25. 

    Kodie
    Member

    I didn't see that the Winter Carnival hadn't happened yet, that's got to be significant.

    EDIT: The RiverCentre is right by the N. and Old Chestnut Streets' intersection.

    Posted 2 years ago #

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