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The Truth Project

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Started 2 years ago by Jeremy
Latest reply from Jeremy

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Jeremy
Member

My dad (raving fundy) has been nagging me for ages to watch this DVD series called the Truth Project. It's put out by his favourite neo-con xenophobic hate group, Focus on the Patriarchy. He thinks it's the most profound, thought-provoking, significant examination of "the biblical world-view" since forever. My hopes for it are not high.

I'm toying with the idea of agreeing to watch it provided he give me around 30 minutes afterward to respond without being interrupted. I'm just wondering if anyone has seen it, or at least seen the first episode. Just from Googling it for about 5 minutes I'm fairly certain it's just going to cover the same old fundagelical talking points: there's no ethics without God, the rest of the world is sliding into moral decay, Darwin inspired Hitler, science is evil except when we can twist it to kinda say what we want it to say, etc.

Is it of the "this is so dumb I can tear it apart in 5 minutes" variety, or the "this is so dumb I'm in serious danger of suffering self-inflicted cranial trauma" variety?

Posted 2 years ago #
Agathos
Member

"Dr." Del Tackett teaches at New Geneva Theological Seminary which is accredited by Association of Reformed Theological Seminaries which means there is not a single legitimate school in the world that you could take their degree and move to a higher ed program. I've seen these sort of worldview programs before (actually I had to TA a 'worldview' class for one semester. Worst experience of my academic career). Basically they caricature Humanism and offer the Reform biblical worldview--and as an aside Reform apologists are simply the most annoying and worst to deal with--as the 'biblical worldview.

Look at this caricature

Lesson 5 - Science: What is True?

Science, the "systematic study of the natural world," brings to light innumerable evidences of Intelligent Design. But Darwinian theory transforms science from the honest investigation of nature into a vehicle for propagating a godless philosophy. (Part One)

A careful examination of molecular biology and the fossil record demonstrates that evolution is not a "proven fact." Meanwhile, history shows that ideas, including Darwinism as a social philosophy, have definite consequences – consequences that can turn ugly when God is left out of the picture. (Part Two)

I'm thinking that it will fall into both of your categories: you will be able to deconstruct it, but it will hurt to sit through thirty minutes of such tripe.

Lesson one, Veritology, should be fairly easy to deconstruct. Apparently, "The Truth Project begins by defining truth as "that which corresponds to reality." Yeah... right.

Have fun with that one!

Posted 2 years ago #
Sunny Day
Member

You lost me at the words DVD Series. Why slog through Hours and Hours of bullcrap just to get 30 minutes in which to dig out and try to keep from smothering under all the lies.

You're selling yourself short. Here's some ideas:
Watch 1 DVD together and you get equal time to refute it. Rinse, Repeat.
You kick him in the junk at the beginning and middle of each DVD.

Posted 2 years ago #
Jeremy
Member

Sorry, I should have been clearer. He's mostly been bugging me to watch the first episode for starters, and that's what I'm considering. No way in hell am I going to agree to 10 or 12 hours (or whatever) for the whole thing.

My condition to watch his hour-long DVD will be to have a good chunk of time to respond.

I'm just asking if anyone has seen it and to get an idea of what to expect. I get the impression it's similar to the Alpha course, but... dumber. That stuff Agathos posted is not encouraging.

I have read a couple accounts of atheists attending the alpha course and blogging on the experience. Brave souls. Anyone know of something similar for someone who has endured the Truth Project?

Posted 2 years ago #
drax
Member

Are you more worried that watching it will kill you, or that you won't be able to refute it adequately? If you are worried about refuting it watch it alone first. Do some research and plan your rebuttal and then watch it again with your Dad. At the end you can give your point of view.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ty
Moderator

My guess is he's worried it will be an enormous and annoying waste of time.

Posted 2 years ago #
Jeremy
Member

Well I’m more worried about it becoming a source of conflict in the family. I’m pretty confident in my ability to refute it. I’m not entirely confident in my ability to do so politely, partly depending on the tone of the presentation.

No doubt it’s a personal flaw of mine, but after having spent 15 years in that mumbo-jumbo I find myself having a low tolerance for the arrogance of fundamentalist religion. “The world is so complex that it speaks of a creator” is a discussion I can have without getting upset. But “Your life is meaningless without our specific vision of God, and you can have no sense of right or wrong without a tyrant telling you what to do, and you don’t know everything therefore God” gets me a little… angry.

Posted 2 years ago #
drax
Member

@ Jeremy: Secretly watching it first would help you decide if you can watch it with your Dad without it becoming a source of conflict. I guess it partly depends on how willing your family is to respect your opinion. It could be that they won't respect your opinion, in which case I wouldn't do it.

@Ty: The comment about it killing him really meant more of what you said about it being an enormous and annoying waste of time. I have developed this bad habit of injecting hyperbole into conversation.

Posted 2 years ago #
JonJon
Member

It would be worth making a concerted effort to be nice. And persuasive, at that. That's just my opinion, but this might be your best opportunity to convince your dad/family that you've actually given the issue some thought, and explain some of your reasons why you've decided the way that you have. Even explaining why accusations against your ability to behave morally are offensive can be an eye-opener (as obvious as it seems to you). You might try watching it first just to make sure you can be conversational and not-angry afterwards with your family. This could be a big opportunity for you to explain some of the flaws in these ideas; if you can talk about your reasons, you might actually be able to ease tensions rather than aggravating them. That's my 2 cents.

Posted 2 years ago #
Agathos
Member

The problem with entering a "Veritology" debate with a believer is that religion and this sort of ham-fisted apologetics are meant to satisfy philosophical and psychological needs not rational scientific requirements.

What is veritas to the 'Truth' project? "This absolute and eternal truth, at the heart of Jesus' mission on earth, continues to be the focal point of the Cosmic Battle in our own time"

When someone's psychological and epistemological existence depend on metaphysical mumbo-jumbo and mythology how do you refute that with any empirical, logical, reasonable? Especially when that argument is already dismissed out of hand because 'Jesus' is the bed-rock of 'truth'?

There is an old saying, and it is a cliche because it is true, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink." When someone is willfully ignorant and inside the bubble of delusion and denial it does not matter what 'truth' you offer, or how much 'knowledge' you counter with (and there certainly is ample evidence of this here in the forum with some of the ignorant ass-hats that have been here in the last few weeks) they simply cannot understand your argument (as it is rational) and will not listen.

So the real question for me is this: is your dad trying to convert you? Or is he actually having some sort of existential crisis and looking for some different answers. You see, if he is trying to convert you it doesn't matter what you say after the video; his mind is made up and it will lead to conflict most likely regardless of how nicely you couch your arguments.

However there is another cliche I find to be true, "When the student is ready the master will appear." The value in this saying is that when someone is actually searching and open minded you can actually discuss ideas, truth, the weighing and evaluation of evidence, etc. in an environment that leads to some sort of conclusion without the conflict or dissolution of relationship.

Posted 2 years ago #
Sunny Day
Member

"Well I’m more worried about it becoming a source of conflict in the family."

Don't do it then.

Sounds like he's emotionally invested in his position and is not accepting of yours. No matter how polite you are it may end up being interpreted as a rejection of him and not his beliefs.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ty
Moderator

My experience lines up with what Sunny is saying.

No matter how calm and logical I was in explaining my position, all my mother could ever hear was, "I hate your religion, I hate you, I hate god."

Because she kept bringing it up, and because I thought being calm and rationally explaining my position was the right choice, we no longer speak at all.

Posted 2 years ago #
UrsaMinor
Member

My partner is also estranged from his very fundamentalist parents. It's probably not entirely due to religion (the whole gay thing is not acceptable to them), but it is worth noting that he never discussed his religious differences with them because he thought it would be futile. He did ask once "Can we agree to disagree?" They told him no, flat out. Today they see each other only at at family funerals, and his parents only speak to him in the most superficial way when they are forced into close proximity (so as not to seem rude in front of the family).

You know your father best. It's your call whether or not you want to risk this.

Posted 2 years ago #
Ty
Moderator

"He did ask once "Can we agree to disagree?" They told him no, flat out. Today they see each other only at at family funerals, and his parents only speak to him in the most superficial way when they are forced into close proximity"

Well, you wouldn't want the gay to rub off on you!

Posted 2 years ago #
Elemenope
Moderator

Why not? Gay feels *fabulous*!

Posted 2 years ago #
Ty
Moderator

BUT TEH GAY!!!!!

Posted 2 years ago #
Elemenope
Moderator

Faaaaaaah..[ahem] [cough]..ahhhhbulous!

Posted 2 years ago #
Morpheus91
Member

Sort of soft and fuzzy? ;D

Posted 2 years ago #
UrsaMinor
Member

The most fun I've ever had at a funeral was sitting in a church somewhere in the navel of backwoods Kentucky and watching the reaction when the good ole boy who snuck in at the last minute realized he'd picked the pew occupied by four queers and a Buddhist.

The next most fun was at the family gathering after the service, where I managed to trap my partner's mother in a kitchen full of relatives where she wouldn't dare make a scene, and I backed her into a corner, and gave her the great big hug that she desperately wanted to avoid. It was like hugging a f*cking coat rack, but it was worth it. Sweet revenge.

Posted 2 years ago #
Len
Member

four queers and a Buddhist

Sounds like a new group. Do you sing?

Posted 2 years ago #
drax
Member

Four queers and a Buddhist sounds like slang for a winning hand in a texas hold 'em poker game.

Posted 2 years ago #
Jeremy
Member

I'm not terribly worried about becoming estranged from my dad. He may be a raving fundy but he's not THAT raving. But any discussion we have on it would likely become heated.

The optimist in me likes JonJon's view. I may not be able to sway him (that wouldn't really be my goal anyway), but I could at least demonstrate that I've put a lot more thought into it than he may be aware of.

But the pessimist (realist?) in me thinks Agathos and Sunny Day are pretty close to the mark. I'm not sure how much of my response will actually be heard.

Posted 2 years ago #

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