Unreasonable Faith Forum

A Reasonable Forum on Religion, Science, Skepticism, and Atheism

  • Home
  • About
  • Forum
  • Writings
  • A Reading List
  • Submissions
  • Contact

Register or Log In

Unreasonable Faith Forum » Introduction » Welcome / Introduce Yourself

1st Post: I'm looking for direction

(11 posts) (6 voices)
  • Started 3 years ago by jessica
  • Latest reply from petek57

Tags:

  • black short dress
  • cocktail dresses black lace
  • conservative
  • deaths in the family
  • designer wedding dress
  • discount wedding dresses plus size
  • dresses for less
  • estranged
  • father
  • fundamentalist
  • replica watches rolex ladies
  1. jessica
    Member

    I'm in a bit of a pickle. I was raised in the South, by a conservative Christian father and a liberal spiritual mother. My father's religious dominion, bi-polarity and dry alcoholism is the very cornerstone of the therapy bills in my early 20's. Now, I'm in my mid-30's. Years since, my mom & brother have been departed (integral issues as they are) so I took what I'd always wanted, guilt-free, and took my leave of my father's company afterward. Since I was the only one left that remembers the manipulation and use of scripture against us so he could punish, negate and magically 'rise above' most issues. I came out the shoot a spiritual-liberal. Now, I'm super pro-God but my understanding of God is far larger than any 'chosen channeled' words ever could be. We've been at odds since I could form sentences.

    For my New Year's gift to myself, I sent one more 'letter'. THE letter. The response I got back was finally an acknowledging one and an apologetic one. All-encompassing apologetic. It almost seemed the apologies weren't fake or scripted specifically about some things and not about others. I was aghast. I know, full well, he's not become more liberal but more conservative. He vacillates between just being conservative Christian and fundamentalist when it serves him (often when I've become vulnerable and happy with him again, I get REALLY let down again). I'm raw. I'm twice-million bitten.

    I don't know what to do, really. I got ANOTHER letter the next week with more 'Lord Jesus' and 'came to find my Father again' in descriptions of his life. I'm put off by the whole thing but - here's the kicker. In my quest to understand what Christianity was leaving out of our possibility with energy, physics & reality (some might call God) - I know that I create my reality. I know that to pull back out of fear is to keep myself safe and not allowing what could be (not sure what that is) from being. Ya dig?

    I'm caught between a little girl's desire to finally have a relationship with a remaining family member and have it be moderately 'roses' and my remembrances of that when he knocks the dominoes down - they go HARD. Like, my brother killed himself 'hard'. You can't make this stuff up, people. I wanna think he could become more easy going about religion, I really do.

    What I *NEED* a discussion on is this: How do you construct this game board? What does it look like? Can ya have a fake relationship with your pop & just never pretend that religion exists and just magically never bring it up again? That doesn't sound very sincere to me. Do I stay my ground, my parentless, liberal life that I've made for myself? Is there room for both? What in the world does that look like?

    I know he's sincere about loving me, I get that. I get that he's sorry. I just feel that conservative Christians (as is true with ANY fundamentalist religious follower on this planet) reserve the right to dominate you, rat you out, turn you in, judge you or neglect you at seriously inopportune times because they believe 'that's what's right'. It ruined Christianity for me. My brother died eight years ago and that's the last we talked. There have been a few letters but they've just been unsuccessful. He just didn't get it. Maybe now he does. I dunno. We only talked a half dozen times before that since I was 20. So - this is a pretty big deal.

    ok...now what? I am so grateful to stumble across this blog and am most grateful for any *real* advice that is offered. Thank you so much!

    Posted 3 years ago #
  2. JonJon
    Member

    I've always found that the best way to enter a conversation in which I don't know how to construct the playing field (which is an excellent way of paraphrasing your situation, btw) is to ask questions. Obviously, I don't know you or your dad, but questions like "what does thing x mean for you?" can be helpful. Questions like "why are you such a hypocrite" will be less helpful. It is possible to leave religion out of the picture, at least for the most part, but there may be times when a few questions on your part can give you insight into what your dad actually thinks. Even better, demanding a thoughtful response can often lead people to consider what they actually think more deeply.

    On the other hand, if conversations about religion don't get you anywhere helpful, I wouldn't talk about it.

    I dunno. I'm rambling now. Best of luck! If this advice doesn't apply, feel free to ignore it.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  3. caddy
    Member

    Jessica

    Moralism has nothing to do with Christianity. You've recognized this. Good for you. I highly recommend a little book called "The Prodigal God" by Tim Keller. Keller's a pastor at Redeemer Presbyterian in New York City. He is a gifted apologist, pastor to thousands of "20-something" urban professionals. He gets it. He gets that young people have staggering doubt about their parents faith, about a "good God."

    Anyhow, in the book, he eludes that there are 2 ways to be your Savior. One is by breaking all the moral laws and setting your own course, and one is by keeping all the moral laws and being very, very good. As long time believers, we often forget that belief is ALL ABOUT GRACE. We bring NOTHING to the table but our sin. When we finally "get that" we want others to see it, but we tend to forget that we are truly without any "merit" of our own. So what do we do? We turn that into moralism and we become the very "Pharisee" Jesus hated so much.

    Keep in mind that when Pharisees sinned in the O.T they felt terrible and repented. They punished themsleves and bewailed their weakness. When they finished, however, they remained the "elder brother" ( From the story of the Prodigal Son ). Remorse and regret is just a part of the self-salvation project. Pharisaical repentance doesn't go deep enough to get at the real problem. As one of Keller's teachers in seminary put it, the main barrier is "not their sin, but their damnable good works." We began to "justify" ourselves" and our "works" and our language is religious and condemning towards others who need grace just as much as we did ( and do. )

    Sounds like you love your father and he loves you, but that he has forgotten that he brought NOTHING to the table when he came to belief in Christ. His moralism has pushed you away and it is understandable. Believer's often end up becoming the Pharisees they heard preached and taught against.

    Why? Keller tells us that "Elder brothers" are under great pressure to appear, even to themselves, happy and content." Your dad, like the rest of us, has fears and hang ups, doubts, uncertainties, just like you do, Jessica. Often times they have an undercurrent of anger toward life circumstances, hold grudges long and bitterly, look down at people of other races, religions, and lifestyles, experience life as a joyless, crushing drudgery, have little intimacy and joy in their prayer lives, and have a deep insecurity that makes them overly sensitive to criticism and rejection yet fierce and merciless in condemning others. What a terrible picture! And yet the rebellious path of the younger brother is obviously not a better alternative is it?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  4. Daniel Florien
    Administrator

    Caddy, no evangelizing here please. I'm happy for your to contribute, but I do not like any religions evangelizing on my site (except in the "evangelism" topic) . Thank you.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  5. Ty
    Moderator

    Yep. The next evangelizing post that's not in the evangelism forum gets deleted. Fair warning.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  6. jessica
    Member

    If there was a better forum I should have posted in, do please let me know. I'm happy to copy/paste this into a more appropriate area. I thought because I was new, this was the best place to start. I certainly don't need to be scared off from what's possible by evangelistic responses (lol). :)

    Posted 3 years ago #
  7. caddy
    Member

    Fair enough! Makes me think of G.K. Chesterton's conversion in the early 20th Century. He came to belief by reading Oscar Wilde, George Bernard Shaw, Rudyard Kipling and wrote as much in his books entitled "Heretics":

    http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/G._K._Chesterton

    http://www.hymnsandcarolsofchristmas.com/Text/Heretics%20-%20G%20K%20Chesterton.html

    "The same lesson [of the pessimistic pleasure-seeker] was taught by the very powerful and very desolate philosophy of Oscar Wilde. It is the carpe diem religion; but the carpe diem religion is not the religion of happy people, but of very unhappy people. Great joy does not gather the rosebuds while it may; its eyes are fixed on the immortal rose which Dante saw."

    God Sovereignly controls the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, HOW: Not me. You give me more credit than I deserve.

    As much as you would not see it or like to admit it guys: Men & Women can be brought to faith in God from all the Negative Philosophies around them. That is how Chesterton came. Baffling how that happens huh? He in turn influenced C.S. Lewis and who knows the countless millions Lewis has influenced since his death in 1963!

    Belief & Unbelief is in the Hands of God, not godless men. You give yourselves MUCH more credit for influencing men than YOU deserve. But that's just my 2cents.

    God indeed uses carnal men to very good service, but without a thorough altering and conviction of their judgment. He works by them, but not IN them. Therefore they do neither approve the good they do nor hate the evil they abstain from.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  8. Ty
    Moderator

    "God Sovereignly controls the WHO, WHEN, WHERE, HOW: Not me. You give me more credit than I deserve. "

    We don't keep evangelism in the evangelism forum because we are afraid it might work. We keep it there because it is so god damn boring to read, and it clutters up otherwise interesting topics.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  9. jessica
    Member

    Ty - is there a better forum/area I should repost in?

    Posted 3 years ago #
  10. Ty
    Moderator

    No, not you Jessica. Your opening post was fine. We are telling Caddy to stop proselytizing to you in this thread.

    You keep on keepin' on, girl.

    Posted 3 years ago #
  11. petek57
    Member

    As a Dad just a few thoughts.

    Set your limits. Time has a way of limiting intrusiveness. 30 mins 1 hr? I don't know but make it short and sweet. If he crosses boundaries in that amt. of time then limit your visits again. If he doesn't perhaps you can spend more time. Alot of people would get the message without having to go verbal on this.

    When you leave say "I love you Dad!" smile and make a get away. Less is better until he acknowledges your boundaries.

    Posted 3 years ago #

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.