Looking back on the past 2,000 years, monotheism and Jesus have shaped and changed the world in an astounding way, and I attribute it to the guiding and gracious hand of God.
How would you respond to this? Monotheism has shaped the world.
(18 posts) (10 voices)-
Kodie
MemberI would also point out to you that belief and existence are two different things. Monotheism and Jesus are also two different things. Monotheism is not the same as Christianity. If you are saying belief in Jesus motivated a lot of people to shape our present world, or as in your first post, you are saying that god actually shaped the world via the people, you are not saying anything meaningful and consistent. Maybe you are god? You were made in his image or he was made in yours, but you haven't argued any points or given examples of what you might regard as evidence that either belief in a particular god shaped and developed the world as we know it, or alternately, that your god shaped and developed the world by gracious guidance. If you are here to discuss something, do it.
I would also point out that a lot of people seem to think the world is "done." That we are shaped how we are going to be forever just like this and not somewhere on a timeline. It's easy to look how far we've come and think we're at the pinnacle of humanity, easy for the simple-minded who believe the rapture is imminent, but it doesn't speak well for god's ostensible identity of creator. He didn't make anything because he doesn't exist. Nothing there is can be attributed to the gracious guidance of god. I can't really say quite the same for mere belief. Supernatural beliefs lead people to look for "signs" of what they should be doing, feeling "called," or "gifted" in some aspect as to what direction they need to go, and it's possible some of that has advanced humanity to a degree (for as much as it seeks to destroy what's best in humanity, or propagate hatred and bigotry). Non-supernatural knowledge and rationality also have that ability to plant ideas and imagination and problem-solving in people. The existence of a god is not necessary for people to think he exists (obviously? obviously to most of us), and to motivate them to act in certain ways, a lot of times silly and destructive, and a lot of times inconsequential overall.
Posted 2 years ago # -
UrsaMinor
MemberChristianity was instrumental in extinguishing the flame of scientific inquiry that was beginning to flourish in the late Classical period- e.g., the brutal mob murder of Hypatia by Christians in Alexandria. Insistence on adherence to religious dogma kept science and reason down for the next thousand years until the Enlightenment. In the Dark Ages, it was Islam that kept Classical science alive.
Ever since then, it's still been an uphill struggle against religion. The Catholic Church was vehemently opposed to the anatomical studies that led directly to modern, life-saving surgical techniques. It tried to suppress the astronomical research of Bruno and Galileo. Modern-day fundamentalists in the United States routinely deny the vast amount of evidence for evolution (the foundation of the very successful science of biology) on the basis that it's "just a theory"- although I find it wryly amusing that they don't also attack electromagnetic theory, or chemical theory. or astrophysical theory, none of which have as large a body of evidence to support them as evolutionary theory. But I suppose televisions and Teflon pans don't challenge Biblical dogma quite as much do as the theological implications of evolution.
Individual Christians have certainly made contributions to science. The religion itself has consistently tried to stand in the way of scientific inquiry throughout history, and continues to do so today.
Posted 2 years ago # -
burpy
MemberI would respond by saying that you would have to completely ignore the Chinese empire and India. also the fact that until 1492, the peoples of the Americas were completely unaware of the various disputes between the various monotheisms centered around the Medterranean. After that date of course those peoples were to learn the true meaning of Christ´s compaassion. Even then I think it would be truer to say that the conquest of the Americas had more to do with the pursuit of gold, sugar, slaves, furs, grain etc than spreading Christianity. I see Christianity as riding on the back of these and providing moral justification for the plunder and the slaving.
In the last century the defining events were two world wars, neither of which had anything to do with religion. Then the rest of the century played out with a struggle between capitalism and Communism. Then of course scientific materialism gave us all the advances in technology which made those wars, as well as many other things, possible.Posted 2 years ago # -
UrsaMinor
Member@Kodie:
The idea that the current state of affairs represents the end state and pinnacle of development is a conceit common to many cultures throughout history. So far all of them have been wrong.
As to the original question, I'd say yes, monotheism has had a significant hand in shaping the world that we now live in. Given that over half the population of the planet believes in one monotheism or another, it could not be otherwise. And it has not necessarily been a benevolent influence. Wars are never waged so viciously as when they are powered by an unwavering, absolutist belief in the One True Right and Only Way of My God. What might the world now be like if the religious tolerance of the Roman Empire had been the rule, instead of the "convert or kill all the heathens" mentality of the monotheistic religions?
Posted 2 years ago # -
Kodie
MemberI'm glad for the detailed responses. I'm pretty general in my knowledge, but it is true that monotheism has influenced people and thus shaped things as they are now. I'm sure some of these people have advanced things for the better, but I did attempt to imply mostly it's had a detrimental effect toward progress, and at times completely destructive to culture, or cultures that refuse to conform. Perhaps the OP has in mind that impeding technological progress is not detrimental though, and crusades and things of that nature had a positive effect of converting people or killing those who declined to be converted, for the greater good of the gracious guidance of god. I mean, you either have to think that was a good thing (ends justify the means) or be totally ignorant, and I'm not sure yet which our OP is, maybe a drive-by, but he didn't really explain his intention, so it could be either.
Posted 2 years ago # -
tobytwo
MemberSorry, I should have elaborated on my intentions. I'm having a discussion with a friend who is a devout Christian (though not a creationist), and I was curious what the Unreasonable Faith community might have to say about one of his points.
My initial reaction to the statement was that it's far too vague to tackle effectively. Obviously there are many examples of the monotheistic religions causing turmoil and inhibiting progress, as some of you have pointed out. And it is very difficult to separate the effects of religious belief from the supposed effects of a real deity.
Posted 2 years ago # -
burpy
MemberIn simple terms I see the whole of human history as being driven by people´s need to acquire more "stuff". That being the case, you may ask the question; "has religion been able to provide a check on some of the worst excesses provoked by the drive to acquire more stuff?". My answer to that would be; sometimes yes and sometimes no. Sometimes religious beliefs have caused people to check their natural impulse to commit evil acts (see "abolition of slavery"). other times religion has caused people to do horrible things to other people that they would not have done had they not been influenced by it (see "witch burnings").
Posted 2 years ago # -
Jeremy
Membertoby, you should tell your friend that if he wants unbelievers to even think about taking him seriously, he should try to distance himself from his religion's history or views of science or political activities, not defend them. Because frankly, they ought to be extremely embarrassing for him. He should use the ol' everyone-has-faults-even-believers routine.
Posted 2 years ago # -
Ty
ModeratorYou know, fully one third to one half of the world is NON monotheistic cultures. I'd say that "monotheism shaped the world" is only as true as "confuscianism shaped the world" or "animism shaped the world" or "hinduism shaped the world".
Claiming preeminence for the contributions of monotheism means the person is wearing some cultural blinders.
Posted 2 years ago #
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