{"id":2321,"date":"2006-08-06T13:01:00","date_gmt":"2006-08-06T13:01:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/adrianwarnock.com\/2006\/08\/while-warnies-away-the-discussion-on-tongues-and-charismatic-gifts-continues\/"},"modified":"2006-08-06T13:01:00","modified_gmt":"2006-08-06T13:01:00","slug":"while-warnies-away-the-discussion-on-tongues-and-charismatic-gifts-continues","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/2006\/08\/while-warnies-away-the-discussion-on-tongues-and-charismatic-gifts-continues\/","title":{"rendered":"While Warnie&#039;s Away, the Discussion on Tongues and Charismatic Gifts Continues"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p><a href=\"http:www.adrian.warnock.info\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img decoding=\"async\" hspace=\"20\" src=\"https:\/\/adrianwarnock.com\/uploaded_images\/hand-736208.JPG\" width=\"40%\" align=\"right\"><\/a> <\/p>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Well, here I am \u2014 just back from holiday \u2014 and what do I find? Talk about whilst the cat\u2019s away the mice will play?!?<\/span><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><br>Over at TeamPyro, <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/teampyro.blogspot.com\/2006\/08\/tongues-across-waterresponse-to.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Dan has a four part response<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"> to <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/adrianwarnock.com\/2006\/07\/sufficient-and-efficient-grace.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">my set of questions on tongues and gifts<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"> which I bashed out quickly before I left. I have read all of Dan\u2019s posts and every one of the comments. Sadly, it seems that there are few, if any, charismatics who read TeamPyro, or if they do, they seem too frit of Dan to respond!\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/bibchr.blogspot.com\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" hspace=\"20\" src=\"https:\/\/adrianwarnock.com\/uploaded_images\/P1010192-777134.JPG\" width=\"50%\" align=\"left\" vspace=\"20\"><\/a>I want to say right at the outset that I respect and admire Dan for taking the time to take me to task so comprehensively. I have never read a better theological discussion on \u201cthe other side.\u201d It is my opinion that theology should be written in community, and to be honest, this kind of interaction helps me to understand how and why people whom I respect come to different conclusions than I do. Perhaps blogging may eventually lead to some kind of theological convergence on these and other controversial issues. I love the fact that in Dan I can interact with someone who is no straw man of my creation. Dan does, at times, extend what I said in my post further than I would have wanted to go myself before demolishing the morphed viewpoint, but even in so doing, it is helpful for me to understand how I am perceived by others.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/centuri0n.blogspot.com\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" hspace=\"17\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/298\/2006\/08\/portrait_lg.jpg\" width=\"45%\" align=\"right\" vspace=\"20\"><\/a>I loved the <strong>broadly generous <\/strong>nature of his comments, and the discussion that ensued \u2014 for example, the way in which one of his commenters, Centurion, said, \u201cUnfortunately, Adrian is the other side right now.\u201d It seems to me that behind that comment is a whole bunch of \u201cother stuff\u201d that could be said, and which would go something like this . . . \u201cAdrian is someone who, most of the time, we\u2019re happy to agree with \u2014 if only he didn\u2019t have those crazy charismatic ideas!\u201d If I have \u201cinterpreted\u201d this comment correctly, well then guys . . . the feeling is mutual!<\/p>\n<p>Elsewhere in the blogosphere, there have been a few other responses; here are the ones I\u2019ve found \u2014 by all means use the comment box on this post to let me know of other posts on blogs you know about \u2014 you can use the following code within a comment: &lt;a href=\u201d<\/p><\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/yoururl.com\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">http:\/\/yoururl.com\/<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">\u201d&gt;your link text &lt;\/a&gt;\n<p><strong>Other posts on the tongues debate:<\/strong><br><strong><\/strong><\/p><\/span><\/div>\n<p><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/truegrit.weblogs.us\/2006\/07\/28\/will-cessationism-cease-that-is-the-question\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">TrueGrit<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/adrianwarnock.com\/2006\/07\/tongues-in-blogosphere-dr-sam-storms.htm\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Sam Storms<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/bibchr.blogspot.com\/2006\/08\/charismatics-adrian-warnock-democratic.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Dan Phillips\u2019 own blog<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">, Biblical Christianity<\/span><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/wildernessvoice.com\/index.php\/archive\/seeking-the-symptoms\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Wilderness Voice<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/englishmusings.blogspot.com\/2006\/07\/few-answers-for-adrian.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">English Muffin <\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">(a fair few comments also here)<\/span><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/www.evangelicaloutpost.com\/intellectuelle\/archives\/003078.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Intellectuelle<\/span><\/a><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><a href=\"http:\/\/teampyro.blogspot.com\/2006\/07\/quick-beef.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Centurion<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"> (over at TeamPyro)<\/span><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Lig Duncan (perhaps wisely) steers clear of the tongues issue, but has <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/fpcj.blogspot.com\/2006\/07\/filling-of-spirit.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">a definition of being filled with the Spirit<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"> with which I fully agree.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Mathew <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/undersovereigngrace.blogspot.com\/2006\/08\/my-esv-journaling-bible-coming-soon.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Sims promises to join the fun too<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">. (Incidentally, he is just TOO far ahead in his blogging through the T4G statement series \u2014 I will have to get back to that soon myself!)<\/span><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><\/span><\/div>\n<ul>\n<li>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">Charis doesn\u2019t talk about the tongues issue, but has a great post <\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/charis.danbutcher.com\/2006\/07\/some-thoughts-on-the-power-of-speech-and-of-good-cross-references\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\">on harsh words and gentle words<\/span><\/a><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"> which we would all do well to continue to remember as well . . . and as we have done so far in this debate!<\/span><\/div>\n<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<div align=\"justify\"><span style=\"font-family:trebuchet ms\"><br><a href=\"http:\/\/bibchr.blogspot.com\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><img decoding=\"async\" hspace=\"20\" src=\"https:\/\/adrianwarnock.com\/uploaded_images\/P1010124-790315.JPG\" width=\"50%\" align=\"left\" vspace=\"20\"><\/a>I will, of course, have to find the time to answer Dan\u2019s great posts. (As I have said before, I don\u2019t have to agree with the conclusions of a post for me to think it\u2019s a great one!). I can\u2019t promise when I will get to them, however, as it is my intention (at least for the present) for this to be a relatively light week of blogging \u2014 sort of like easing my way back into \u201cnormal life\u201d a bit slowly! I am sure that some of you will suspect that I will find the bait of these posts irresistible . . . but I plan to try!\n<p>Perhaps you, my readers, can help me resist the temptation \u2014 as of yet, the charismatic view does not seem to have been well represented in the discussions in Dan\u2019s comment section or elsewhere in the blogosphere. I fear that many charismatics may<br>\nhave deserted TeamPyro whilst cessationists may have deserted this blog! So, my charismatic friends, now is your chance to show why I do not need to respond to Dan just yet! When I do get round to it, what should I say? How should I reply?<\/p>\n<p>For that matter, any cessationist readers I have left are welcome to discuss any aspect of this matter here where I have none of the foibles of Dan about off-topic comments. Comment away \u2014 just keep it civil!<\/p><\/span><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Well, here I am \u2014 just back from holiday \u2014 and what do I find? Talk about whilst the cat\u2019s away the mice will play?!? Over at TeamPyro, Dan has a four part response to my set of questions on tongues and gifts which I bashed out quickly before I left. I have read all [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1268,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[227,300,106,155],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2321","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-cessationism","category-charis-warnock","category-personal","category-t4g"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>While Warnie&#039;s Away, the Discussion on Tongues and Charismatic Gifts Continues<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Well, here I am \u2014 just back from holiday \u2014 and what do I find? 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Just not all at once. Healing takes time. Compassion and patience sustain us over a lifetime of change. These are the themes I explore in my books and in the articles I have written for Patheos since 2003. My writing draws on my scientific training as a doctor and psychiatrist, my work in the UK's National Health Service and the pharmaceutical industry, alongside more than twenty-five years as a member of a growing church where I served on the leadership team offering pastoral care. My perspective has also been shaped by chronic illness since 2017, when I developed life-threatening pneumonia that caused lasting damage to my body, triggered several further conditions, and uncovered a diagnosis of blood cancer. This was successfully treated, although doctors expect it to return in the future. Out of these experiences I founded Blood Cancer Uncensored, an online patient-led support community. 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My qualifications and training reflect this integrated background: \u2192 British MB BS medical degree (equivalent to an MD in the USA) \u2192 Postgraduate qualifications in Psychiatry (MRCPsych) and Pharmaceutical Medicine (MFFM, DipPharmMed) \u2192 Theological training courses run by Newfrontiers\",\"sameAs\":[\"http:\/\/patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/adrianwarnockpage\/\",\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/adrianwarnock\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/author\/awarnock\/\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"While Warnie&#039;s Away, the Discussion on Tongues and Charismatic Gifts Continues","description":"Well, here I am \u2014 just back from holiday \u2014 and what do I find? 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Just not all at once. Healing takes time. Compassion and patience sustain us over a lifetime of change. These are the themes I explore in my books and in the articles I have written for Patheos since 2003. My writing draws on my scientific training as a doctor and psychiatrist, my work in the UK's National Health Service and the pharmaceutical industry, alongside more than twenty-five years as a member of a growing church where I served on the leadership team offering pastoral care. My perspective has also been shaped by chronic illness since 2017, when I developed life-threatening pneumonia that caused lasting damage to my body, triggered several further conditions, and uncovered a diagnosis of blood cancer. This was successfully treated, although doctors expect it to return in the future. Out of these experiences I founded Blood Cancer Uncensored, an online patient-led support community. I am the author of the Transformed by Jesus: Spiritual Renewal series of books, which ask: \u2192 What does Jesus\u2019 resurrection mean for you? Raised With Christ: How the Resurrection Changes Everything https:\/\/mybook.to\/raisedwithchrist \u2192 Why is change so difficult? What causes the resistance? The Traitor Within: Understanding and Healing Our Deceitful Hearts https:\/\/mybook.to\/traitorwithin \u2192 \u2028Why is change so slow? How does grace lead us over a lifetime? Amazing Grace: How Faith Grows in the Human Heart https:\/\/mybook.to\/amazinggrace \u2192 \u2028\u2028How do you become a Christian? How can you know if you really are one? Hope Reborn: How to Become a Christian and Live for Jesus https:\/\/mybook.to\/hope-reborn These books bring together medical, psychological, social, and faith-based insights, advocating for a biopsychosocial\u2013spiritual model of wellbeing. My qualifications and training reflect this integrated background: \u2192 British MB BS medical degree (equivalent to an MD in the USA) \u2192 Postgraduate qualifications in Psychiatry (MRCPsych) and Pharmaceutical Medicine (MFFM, DipPharmMed) \u2192 Theological training courses run by Newfrontiers","sameAs":["http:\/\/patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/adrianwarnockpage\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/adrianwarnock"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/author\/awarnock\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2321","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1268"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2321"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2321\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2321"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2321"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2321"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}