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<\/a> In our own church, that would be the largest demographic. And these are young people who really have a value of the foundations of the past, historical Christian faith would be important to them, but also a mixture of what the culture has created\u2014a desire to experience something in the Spirit. They\u2019re not afraid of that. So you have this desire to be rooted in something that\u2019s stable\u2014historical Christian faith\u2014but at the same time, wanting to experience something of God in the Spirit. And are not afraid of spiritual manifestations; in fact, they\u2019re hungry for that. Hungry to experience the very real presence of God for themselves in a very tangible way.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yeah. It\u2019s interesting because a lot of people are talking about that kind of resurgence of reformed faith in the US in the 20\u2019s and 30\u2019s [age group]. It\u2019s interesting to hear you saying that a lot of those guys are also looking for something quite experiential.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Absolutely.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
I guess people like John Piper are probably a major part of that, aren\u2019t they? Because the way he preaches\u2014it\u2019s all about knowing God, and [having] a kind of relationship with God, and valuing God, rather than just purely as an intellectual thing.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, and he\u2019s taken some fairly strong stands. He actually is not a cessationist. He actually does believe . . .<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Most people are really surprised when they hear that. What? John Piper is not a cessationist? You\u2019re kidding!<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
That\u2019s true. And he has huge influence in our nation among the evangelical community. I think his welcoming in of people like C. J. Mahaney, and even embracing guys like Mark Driscoll . . .<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes!<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
. . . and just to see what\u2019s happening there encourages me quite a great deal.<\/p>\nOne of the negative things that\u2019s happening in the US as well\u2014you have the emerging church. On one end of it you have a very orthodox guy like Mark Driscoll, and a bit colorful as well. (Adrian laughing) While on the other end you have people who have a greater degree of relevancy, so doctrine and theology is kind of fluid, and they want to adapt that to culture, and so that leads to heresy. And that\u2019s a frightening thing. But there\u2019s a wing of that emerging church that is very much moving in that direction as well, as you probably well know. That\u2019s a frightening thing in the US because there\u2019s quite a large following of that group as well.<\/p>\n
Adrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
That\u2019s right. And I think some of those historic doctrines are being questioned . . .<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
They are!<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
. . . in a way that you\u2019d be surprised at. But that\u2019s not unique to the US either. As you know, we\u2019ve had some issues over here with that, particularly with regard to the atonement and things like that. I mean, is the atonement such a big issue in the US as it is over here in the UK, would you say?<\/p>\nJohn
<\/span><\/em><\/strong>It\u2019s not with mainline evangelical groups, but I think with the emerging church, the people who are on one side of that very much\u2014that\u2019s one of the questions. And even the desire to be culturally relevant and accepting of alternative life styles has led people to make an adjustment as to how they approach that. And they won\u2019t make categorical statements any more. So they\u2019re standing on sand rather than the solid rock of the Book. So I think that\u2019s a concern as well. These guys are fairly media savvy, and it\u2019s a subtle thing . . . to find a way into churches.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
I think that\u2019 right. With the advent of the media and the Internet, well, I know this only two well. It\u2019s possible for people to hit above their weight. I mean, Here am I \u2014 just some guy in a church in London whose blog is read all around the world. And I think that happening with a lot of people, and you can have influence, either for good or not good, far above, actually, what you are accomplishing on the ground in that sense. Or over what you feel you should have influence.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, absolutely, that\u2019s true.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
I think it is a bit concerning, isn\u2019t it? How some people are causing us to drift away from truth.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
The thing that\u2019s concerning about it is that\u2014not [only] are they gifted and charismatic, but in actuality, there\u2019s the element of Christianity about them. So you\u2019re dealing with something different than people who are totally secular. So it\u2019s a subtle thing. A lot of people are not very scripturally astute. It\u2019s easy to be pulled along in that train.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Don\u2019t you think that it\u2019s quite interesting when you look [at it] historically? A lot of these ideas have been tried before, haven\u2019t they?<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, they have. And the thing is, they always end up on a dead-end street. They don\u2019t have a long cycle. They come around, but ultimately God is very protective of his Church. He is very zealous for it. And the church that\u2019s rooted in biblical value and persuasion continues on. I\u2019m very encouraged in America about the uptick in church planting. I don\u2019t know if you want to talk about that or not . . .<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yeah, church planting is great, yeah.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
In the US, over the last two decades, there has been a deterioration in people who are committed to regular church attendance. It\u2019s averaged a 10 per cent decline in
\neach of the last ten years\u2014so 20 per cent less are now involved in church activities, or even actually community activities, than before. But now, groups like Acts 29, and on a much, much smaller scale, but I like to say, Sovereign Grace, and Newfrontiers, and various other church planting movements, Global Net\u2014these groups that are coming to the forefront planting churches, training people, are based on orthodox Christian faith with a real sense of mission. So missional churches are emerging among us, and many of them are growing, seeing lots of people saved. So I actually\u2014while we have these rather alarming trends, I see much to be very excited about in the US.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, oh yes. Just for the sake of those out there\u2014I know some people sitting out there are thinking, \u201cWhat exactly is a missional church, John?\u201d How would you define that?<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
A church that understands that it exists for the express purpose of carrying the gospel to the next door neighbor, to the person in the next block, to the person in the next city, state, and nation, and they exist for the purpose of being carriers of the gospel. So they are involved, not only in proclamation, but they are involved in changing the whole culture of a community. They would be people who would be involved in cross-cultural evangelism. They would be people who would be involved in changing the social justice\u2014be involved in that ministry to the poor\u2014so they have a desire to see the whole community that they are involved with, the towns they are involved with, changed and made into a kingdom community. It\u2019s people who understand, \u201cWe do not exist for ourselves, but we exist for them.\u201d So the way we spend our money. the way we staff our churches, the way our churches feel, the way they operate, have that outward appeal. And it\u2019s a God-centered approach to humanity rather than an inward, \u201cWhat about me and my needs?\u201d It\u2019s a man-centered approach.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
That\u2019s very good. So that\u2019s really very much what\u2019s on your heart as you go across the nation, isn\u2019t it? I guess that\u2019s what you\u2019re saying\u2014to see those kinds of churches multiplied.<\/p>\nJohn <\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Absolutely\u2014if we can get outstanding churches in each of these 100 large cities, and out from that, begin to reproduce ourselves. Because I\u2019m fanatical on reproducing churches. We must not just plant churches, but we [want to] see churches that view themselves as reproducing churches, multiply themselves, raise up leaders, give themselves away, spread out in the communities and the nations beyond.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
It\u2019s just so exciting to see what God is doing in a nation, but also what he\u2019s doing around the world, and to be able to link up with that. I guess we\u2019re back to the conference in a way. Because that\u2019s what this is all about, isn\u2019t it? Together on a Mission.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, it is. And I think what\u2019s interesting is how we help each other. The different nations, different men, bring different things into the pool. I\u2019m receiving from others. I\u2019m receiving from my friends in Africa, or my friends in India, and so it\u2019s even the in-between times when we\u2019re kind of sharing ideas back and forth and getting on board how we can assist one another. Because it\u2019s just not about our own little patch. It\u2019s us owning the world together. It\u2019s us saying, \u201cWe want to see the gospel of the kingdom of Jesus Christ grow and expand to all the nations of the world. So, I have just as much a vital interest in what\u2019s happening in Africa, or what\u2019s happening in Europe, as I would even in our own place. Because we have to own the whole vision of God. I do know that I have a particular responsibility for a sphere.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yeah.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
But God has called us to work together. I think that\u2019s the joy of what\u2019s happening here in this conference, and who we are in Newfrontiers as well.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yeah. And I guess when we gather together like this, significant words can come as well, that shape us really.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
It\u2019s true. I think it\u2019s in the worship that God is speaking to us. It\u2019s in the preaching as well. But also in prophetic words that come to us. And you can just see the impact that\u2019s happening across the room . . .<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes!<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
. . . guys coming together and buzzing about this, and what God is saying. So it\u2019s quite helpful actually.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
If my readers are sitting there in America somewhere thinking, \u201cYou know what?\u201d This all sounds great. I\u2019d love to be in a church like that.\u201d How would they find out more?<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Well, they can come to our website, of course. Just type into the search engine Newfrontiers USA, and there, of course, they can find us, and where our churches are located. Of course, I would welcome any contact there in St. Louis where we are based.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Excellent. Do you run any conferences, or anything like that, there in the USA?<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, we do. We have an annual Leadership Conference that\u2019s hosted by us there in St. Louis. But we have also moved out regionally. Originally we were just a small cluster of churches in Missouri, but now we have established cluster churches in New England, and we\u2019ve moved into the Pacific Northwest, and now we\u2019ve moved into the Southeast as well. So we\u2019ve established regional events because we are a family of churches, just not a fraternity of leaders. So churches come together there for envisioning, and leadership events happen, as well as 20\u2019s conferences, and events for teenagers. Just this next week, we\u2019re gathering several hundred teenagers, not just to go to a camp and somehow be refreshed and go back all enthusiastic for a couple of weeks, but actually to be involved in a mission and social action. We\u2019re going to go out into the streets. We\u2019re going to get with children in the neighborhoods. We\u2019re going to begin to work into that community. So we have lots of events by which we\u2019re bringing people together. There\u2019s something that can happen when a group of churches come together that simply cannot happen with a church on its own. And there is just a combined strength of coming together around the singleness of vision and purpose that not only helps with what we do together, but actually helps when people go back to their own churches. They\u2019ve caught something, see? And they take it back with them. So we have several events like that. And men\u2019s conferences and ladies conferences that are happening throughout the nation. So immediately when I go back, we will have a One Blaze event, which is the teen event, in St. Louis. And from there, I\u2019ll leave the next week and go up to New England, and we\u2019ll have a big family camp out there where we gather the churches. We bring in international speakers, as well as myself, and we\u2019re envisioned.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Great. Sounds great. It\u2019s just so exciting to hear about what God\u2019s
\ndoing over there in the States. Thank you so much for joining us, John. Is there anything else that you\u2019d like to share with my readers before we close?<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
I\u2019m very much enthused about what God is going to be doing in the US, and what he is doing now. I\u2019m thrilled when I see the moving of his Spirit in more prononced ways, as well as the value of the Word. I\u2019m particularly encouraged about missional churches that are sprining up all across our nation. So, I wouldn\u2019t want to end here just with some of the other things we\u2019ve talked about\u2014alarming trends, etc. I\u2019d like to says that I\u2019m actually more encouraged today than I\u2019ve ever been in my life in regard to what God\u2019s doing in raising up his Church in the US.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Excellent! Praise God for that. We wish you all the success in the future, John, and I look forward to hearing more about what goes on in the years to come when you\u2019ve reached those 100 cities.<\/p>\nJohn<\/span><\/em><\/strong>
Yes, thank you, Adrian.<\/p>\nAdrian<\/span><\/em><\/strong><\/p>\nPraise God. Thank you.<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
As we drew to the close of the first segment of my interview with John Lanferman yesterday we began to speak about reformed charismatic churches. Today I begin by asking him if he believes there is a hunger for such churches in the USA. You can also download the audio of this interview. ************************* AdrianYeah, […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1268,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[54,170],"tags":[475,561,562],"class_list":["post-3145","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-john-lanferman","category-toam07","tag-church-2","tag-john-piper","tag-prophecy"],"yoast_head":"\n
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Just not all at once. Healing takes time. Compassion and patience carry us over a lifetime of change. These are the themes I explore in my books and in the articles I have written for Patheos since 2003. My writing draws on my scientific training as a doctor and psychiatrist, my work in the UK's National Health Service and the pharmaceutical industry, alongside more than twenty-five years as a member of a growing church where I served on the leadership team offering pastoral care. My perspective has also been shaped by chronic illness since 2017, when I developed life-threatening pneumonia that caused lasting damage to my body, triggered several further conditions, and uncovered a diagnosis of blood cancer. This was successfully treated, although doctors expect it to return in the future. Out of these experiences I founded Blood Cancer Uncensored, an online patient-led support community. I am the author of the Transformed by Jesus: Spiritual Renewal series of books, which ask: \u2192 What does Jesus\u2019 resurrection mean for you? Raised With Christ: How the Resurrection Changes Everything https:\/\/mybook.to\/raisedwithchrist \u2192 Why is change so difficult? What causes the resistance? The Traitor Within: Understanding and Healing Our Deceitful Hearts https:\/\/mybook.to\/traitorwithin \u2192 \u2028Why is change so slow? How does grace lead us over a lifetime? Amazing Grace: How Faith Grows in the Human Heart https:\/\/mybook.to\/amazinggrace \u2192 \u2028\u2028How do you become a Christian? How do you know if you really are one? Hope Reborn: How to Become a Christian and Live for Jesus https:\/\/mybook.to\/hope-reborn These books bring together medical, psychological, social, and faith-based insights, advocating for a biopsychosocial\u2013spiritual model of wellbeing. My qualifications and training reflect this integrated background: \u2192 British MB BS medical degree (equivalent to an MD in the USA) \u2192 Postgraduate qualifications in Psychiatry (MRCPsych) and Pharmaceutical Medicine (MFFM, DipPharmMed) \u2192 Theological training courses run by Newfrontiers","sameAs":["http:\/\/patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/adrianwarnockpage\/","https:\/\/twitter.com\/adrianwarnock"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/author\/awarnock\/"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3145","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1268"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3145"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3145\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3145"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3145"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/adrianwarnock\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3145"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}