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If you\u2019re looking for a microcosm of European Muslim society, one that exemplifies all the challenges and opportunities faced by immigrants from Muslim countries, The Netherlands may not immediately come to mind. Often overshadowed by the larger Muslim populations in Germany, Britain or France, The Netherlands has been the home of a number of personalities hostile to Islam and Muslims, including right wing politician Geert Wilders, activist and former MP Ayaan Hirsi Ali, murdered filmmaker Theo Van Gogh \u2013 all of whom have stirred up emotions of Muslims far from Europe. At the same time, Muslims in The Netherlands (who are primarily of Turkish origin) have quietly learned from their experiences and have broken barriers in political and social life \u2013 often well before counterparts elsewhere in Europe and other Muslim minority countries. <\/p>\n
Central to this is Fadime \u00d6rg\u00fc<\/a>, one of the first Dutch Muslims elected to Parliament over 10 years ago, serving there with Wilders and Hirsi Ali and providing a counterbalance to the increasingly personality-driven, rightward tilt within the political system. We spoke to \u00d6rg\u00fc about recent events, including Wilders ban from entering the UK<\/a> to screen his anti-Islam film Fitna<\/i>, the new Muslim mayor of Rotterdam, Ahmed Aboutaleb, and her own experiences, both in Parliament and working with Muslim immigrants in the Netherlands and beyond.<\/p>\n Fadime \u00d6rg\u00fc: Well, I started when I was 15. The reason I started so young was that I was finding out a lot of things were not going well in society. I thought I have to take the initiative. I figured out that politics was the place to solve these issues. The Liberal Party<\/a> in the Netherlands \u2013 it\u2019s not the same as in England or America, it\u2019s a centre-right party \u2013 asked me to join them. They explained to me that you have to take your own responsibility to change personal, social and political issues. While they were explaining liberalism to me, I thought, \u201cThis is me they\u2019re talking about.\u201d<\/p>\n I first started on a local level, setting up a girls group to work for economic independence. I wanted them to go to school, finish their education and then get married, instead of getting married first and not having a good education. If they got divorced, they couldn\u2019t find a job. That\u2019s the way it worked in those years. <\/p>\n At 17-18, I became more active on a political level in the youth sector, getting to know other organisations in the Netherlands and other European countries. I became active in European youth organisations, working on minorities in Western Europe, organising activities for young people. They were all immigrant and minority children. It\u2019s funny seeing how all the minorities in Europe wanted to work together. In that time gays and lesbians considered themselves minorities too. But our organisation was focused on immigrant children from guest workers mainly. <\/p>\n I did that for about 8 years, working with organisations on a European level and some in the Netherlands, but all were linked to politics. You could see that politics were everywhere. You had to be in politics to change the world. By the time I was 21, I said that I\u2019m going to be a Member of Parliament because that\u2019s the place I have to be, because there I can change something. I told my friends that when I become a Member of Parliament, would you like to work for me (Laughs). <\/p>\n But I never thought that I would do it so young. I thought that you would become a Member of Parliament when you\u2019re older than 40. I never thought that I would do it before the age of 40!<\/p>\n In \u201897, I became a candidate for a member of parliament. The reason I was a candidate was that I wanted to figure out how the structure was working. Finally, I was on the list (to be) elected directly during the election of \u201998. Before that time, I was working for the public TV station in the Netherlands, making TV programmes. At the end of \u201997, I stopped because (of the) campaign for parliament. By the beginning of \u201998, I became Member of Parliament for the Liberal Party.<\/p>\n I was always active in politics anyway. I started from the youth organisation and developed myself in all fields. When I started in parliament, I was the youngest Member of Parliament in my party. <\/p>\n It is a good thing if you are a young Member of Parliament. You have to learn a lot, but at the same time, you have much more energy and you can deal with it.<\/p>\n \u2026I was actually the first in the Turkish community. Here in the Netherlands, the Turkish community is the biggest Muslim community. Together with another colleague from the Social Democrat Party, we were the first ones to get elected. It was huge news, you know. All the Turkish news TV stations and papers were all in the Netherlands to broadcast. Even when I was walking in Istanbul, people recognised me! (Laughs) Even now, in Turkey, if you ask them who was the first (Dutch-Turkish) Member of Parliament, people know my name. One way or another you make history, being the first one.<\/p>\n We also made news because we were both female. In that time, in Turkey, in the whole government, there were probably (only) two women or something like that. Nowadays it is changing rapidly, but in that time it was quite new that women got into parliament, especially so young.<\/p>\n Normally, immigrants who got involved in politics, whatever history you look at, it\u2019s mainly third or fourth generation who get involved in politics. We were both second generation, so for them it was something spectacular. <\/p>\n Geert Wilders became a Member of Parliament after me \u2013 the same year, but later. Geert Wilders is one of the persons I know very well \u2013 he was sitting next to me for over six years. He already started \u2013 the first year when he became Member of Parliament \u2013 working on the issue of Islam. <\/p>\n This is not a new topic for him. It\u2019s also not something that came out of the blue. Actually, the day that he started in Parliament, this was one of the topics he wanted to deal with. He believed that if we as a party focussed on this topic, we could get more seats. For him, this was the topic and, with this topic, we could run the world. <\/p>\n At the same time, he was new and he did not have the experience. He was young and maybe he also did not have the courage to do things by himself. And in those years, he was listening to his colleagues. When I said, \u201cNo,\u201d he said, \u201cOK. It\u2019s a no.\u201d He was accepting it and he had to deal with the party discipline anyway, because first you have to convince your own party members, then you can go outside and tell the world what you think. That\u2019s how it works in a party.<\/p>\n So the party couldn\u2019t convince me, for example, of his ideas. Because of that, he never could come out with this topic.<\/p>\n Yes, at that time, I was one of the persons who \u2013 well, I was actually THE person who \u2013 in the beginning, said \u201cno\u201d to what he was working for. <\/p>\n![](\"https:\/\/www.altmuslim.com\/images\/altmuslim_icon.gif\"){kind=icon}
First of all, tell us a little bit more about yourself \u2013 how you got involved with politics, eventually ending up in the Dutch parliament.<\/b><\/p>\nVery ambitious.<\/b><\/p>\nAt the time you were elected to Parliament, I can\u2019t think of any other people from a Muslim background who were elected to high political office\u2026<\/b><\/p>\nYou came into Parliament at a very interesting time, because in the years you were in Parliament, a number of high profile incidents and people were in the news from the Netherlands, such as the murder of Theo van Gogh, and the rise of Ayaan Hirsi Ali<\/a>, and Geert Wilders<\/a> \u2013 who were both in Parliament with you\u2026<\/b><\/p>\nYou had a moderating influence from the inside, basically.<\/b><\/p>\n