{"id":155,"date":"2010-05-24T22:33:00","date_gmt":"2010-05-24T22:33:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering\/"},"modified":"2010-05-24T22:33:00","modified_gmt":"2010-05-24T22:33:00","slug":"the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html","title":{"rendered":"The Greater Discourse on the Mass of Suffering"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Or, a happier title might be \u201cThe Best Feeling in the World\u201d (see below).<br>The wonderful <a href=\"http:\/\/https:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Bhikkhu_Bodhi\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Bhikkhu Bodhi<\/a> has produced a series of great interest to all who would like to dive deeply into the teachings of the Buddha,\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/bodhimonastery.net\/bm\/about-buddhism\/audio\/15-a-systematic-study-of-the-majjhima-nikaya.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">A Systematic Study of the Majjhima Nikaya<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>This morning, somewhat at random, I listened to (and read along with)\u00a0<b>MN 13: Mah\u0101dukkhakkhanda Sutta \u2014 The Greater Discourse on the Mass of Suffering <\/b>(<a href=\"http:\/\/bodhimonastery.net\/courses\/MN\/MP3\/M0019_MN-013.mp3\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">download mp3 here<\/a>) (read <a href=\"http:\/\/www.accesstoinsight.org\/tipitaka\/mn\/mn.013.than.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">AccesstoInsight translation here<\/a>) (<a href=\"http:\/\/www.tipitaka.org\/romn\/cscd\/s0201m.mul1.xml\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">P\u0101li here<\/a>\u00a0at paragraph 163)<\/p>\n<p>The sutta discusses the importance of full knowledge in 3 key areas that keep us bound to the world:<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>Sense desires<\/li>\n<li>Body (ours or others, or, more broadly, \u2018material form\u2019 in all its manifestations)<\/li>\n<li>Feelings<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<div>The Buddha, in what I take to be a not untypical fashion,\u00a0declares\u00a0that only he and his disciples fully know these three things \u2013 which is the difference between his teachings and those of others in his time. A bit of <a href='https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/library\/buddhism' target='_blank'>Buddhist<\/a> exclusivism or Buddhist triumphalism right from the horse\u2019s mouth, so to speak.<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>The Buddha goes on state that we must understand 3 aspects of each of these:\u00a0<\/div>\n<div>\n<ol>\n<li>their gratification,\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>their danger, and\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>how to escape them.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<\/div>\n<p>The sutta is then a systematic account, covering the various gratifications of sense desires, their dangers, and finally escape \u2013 and then repeating for the next two.<\/p>\n<p>Important to note is that he <i>does<\/i>\u00a0point out the gratification, the <i>pleasure and joy<\/i>\u00a0that arise from each of these. The Buddha would not deny that a glass of good wine brings pleasure, or music or games, and so on. So the Buddhist is a <i>realist<\/i>\u00a0in this sense, he acknowledges the reality of our common experience. However, he quickly moves on from the gratifications to the seven dangers of sensuality:<\/p>\n<p><\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>struggle and strive<\/li>\n<li>suffering of no gain<\/li>\n<li>suffering of loss<\/li>\n<li>quarrels<\/li>\n<li>warfare and worse<\/li>\n<li>crime\/punishment<\/li>\n<li>bad rebirth<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<p>First we must struggle and strive after objects of sensual pleasure: wine isn\u2019t cheap, nor are most things that we require for our comfortable lives. So we all spend many hours each day working, often in jobs we do not particularly care for, in order to afford those objects. Next is the danger of the suffering that comes when we do not gain what we have worked so hard for. Perhaps a promotion is passed over, a house price rises outside your means, etc. It\u2019s the common frustration of having worked hard with your eye on a prize, only to fall short in the end. Third is the -even more common- suffering of loss. And not just that, the Buddha describes the fears that arise whenever we gain something valuable: fear of\u00a0thieves\u00a0or government taxes, of fire and flood and ungrateful children (really!).<\/p>\n<p>Fourth is the danger of quarrels, perhaps with jealous neighbors or\u00a0competitive\u00a0coworkers or a spouse or (again!) those darned children. This goes beyond verbal barbs to literal fights to the death. Fifth expands on this to the greater quarrels between nations and the horrors enacted therein (always in the name of some noble cause but <i>really<\/i>\u00a0in pursuit of goods for sensual enjoyment). Sixth is the rise of crime \u2013 the poor and disenfranchised seeking goods through what is often the only means available \u2013 and punishment, often far more barbaric than the crimes.<\/p>\n<p>Lastly is the one danger said to be apparent only in future lives, rather than here in this world, a bad rebirth.<\/p>\n<p>The escape is simple: <a href=\"http:\/\/dsal.uchicago.edu\/cgi-bin\/philologic\/getobject.pl?c.3:1:1595.pali\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">vinaya<\/a> or discipline (which is the name of a major portion of the Buddha\u2019s teachings); here translated as \u2018removal\u2019 of <i>desire <\/i>(<i>chanda<\/i>)\u00a0and <i>lust <span class=\"Apple-style-span\" style=\"font-style: normal\">(<\/span><span class=\"Apple-style-span\" style=\"font-style: normal\"><\/span><\/i><i>r\u0101ga<\/i>)\u00a0for sensual pleasures.<br><i><\/i><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u2018\u2018Ki\u00f1ca, bhikkhave, k\u0101m\u0101na\u1e43 nissara\u1e47a\u1e43? Yo kho, bhikkhave, k\u0101mesu chandar\u0101gavinayo chandar\u0101gappah\u0101na\u1e43 \u2013 ida\u1e43 k\u0101m\u0101na\u1e43 nissara\u1e47a\u1e43.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<div style=\"text-align: center\">~<\/div>\n<p>The sutta moves more quickly through \u2018body\u2019 and \u2018feelings\u2019 but these are no less important. In the section on the body, the Buddha has his monks imagine a beautiful young woman. He suggests that the gratification of \u2018body\u2019 arises in dependence upon her beauty and the monks all agree.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Bhikkhu Bodhi comments that he finds it a bit odd (and I agree) that the Buddha would use the beauty of a young woman here; because isn\u2019t the gratification here already covered under sense-desires? Bodhi suggests that a more apt example would be our own bodies, which are not in themselves objects of sensual desire (for us), but are nonetheless material forms that keep us attached to the world of suffering.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>The Buddha then walks them through the aging of that woman, from the height of her beauty to the point at which she is old and frail, laying in a pool of her own urine and\u00a0excrement\u00a0and finally dead. And not just dead in the \u2018funeral home\u2019 sense we know, but in the \u2018charnel ground\u2019 sense of ancient India, where one would watch the daily decomposition of a body.<\/p>\n<p>The Buddha simply then asks if the beauty is vanished and the danger clear. \u201cOh yes,\u201d reply the monks! \u00a0But the Buddha, always a show-man, doesn\u2019t let up there. He goes on to have the monks imagine that body being eaten by crows, hawks, vultures, dogs and \u201cvarious kinds of worms.\u201d <\/p>\n<p>The escape is identical to that above, replacing\u00a0k\u0101ma (sense-desire) with r\u016bpa (body).<\/p>\n<p>Last covered, and perhaps because it is the most subtle of the two, is feeling (vedana). In Buddhist psychology, feeling can be of only three kinds: pleasant, unpleasant, or neither-pleasant-nor-unpleasant (i.e. neutral). Here the gratification may surprise some people, the pleasures arising from meditative\u00a0absorption, or jh\u0101na.<\/p>\n<p>The Buddha covers the standard four levels of\u00a0jh\u0101na, with each state cultivating the freedom from all \u00a0affliction. This, the Buddha says, is the best feeling in the world. But, warns the Buddha, it too has a danger because it is impermanent, unsatisfactory, and subject to change. So, as much as they love their meditative absorptions, the monks are warned and urged to escape even the desire or lusting after these refined states of being.<\/p>\n<p>And that\u2019s it.<\/p>\n<p>As I noted, one gets a sense of progression here, from<\/p>\n<ol>\n<li>more \u2018mundane\u2019 pursuits like a nice house and wealth to\u00a0<\/li>\n<li>the relatively \u2018higher\u2019 pleasures of a sexual partner and finally (or simply our harmful identifications with our own body)<\/li>\n<li>the pinnacle of feelings we can crave in the world, the sublime bliss of meditative absorption.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n<div>And that\u2019s all for me; there\u2019s not much I can think of in terms of commentary. But I\u2019ll be happy to receive questions and try to give answers if you have any.<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<div>I highly recommend Bhikkhu Bodhi\u2019s recordings, writings, and teachings in general. Next up from me will be <b>MN 57: Kukkuravatika Sutta \u2014 The Dog-Duty Ascetic<\/b>; on karma\/<i>kamma<\/i>\u00a0and its lawfulness.<\/div>\n<div class=\"blogger-post-footer\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" width=\"1\" height=\"1\" src=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/7907151-6682572409337731452?l=americanbuddhist.blogspot.com\" alt=\"\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Or, a happier title might be \u201cThe Best Feeling in the World\u201d (see below).The wonderful Bhikkhu Bodhi has produced a series of great interest to all who would like to dive deeply into the teachings of the Buddha,\u00a0A Systematic Study of the Majjhima Nikaya. This morning, somewhat at random, I listened to (and read along [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":118,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-155","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Greater Discourse on the Mass of Suffering<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Or, a happier title might be &quot;The Best Feeling in the World&quot; (see below).The wonderful Bhikkhu Bodhi has produced a series of great interest to all who\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"The Greater Discourse on the Mass of Suffering\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Or, a happier title might be &quot;The Best Feeling in the World&quot; (see below).The wonderful Bhikkhu Bodhi has produced a series of great interest to all who\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"American Buddhist Perspectives\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2010-05-24T22:33:00+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/blogger.googleusercontent.com\/tracker\/7907151-6682572409337731452?l=americanbuddhist.blogspot.com\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Justin Whitaker\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Justin Whitaker\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"6 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html\",\"name\":\"The Greater Discourse on the Mass of Suffering\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2010-05-24T22:33:00+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2010-05-24T22:33:00+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/#\/schema\/person\/abfb8f851f671638c4c7536b963f9da9\"},\"description\":\"Or, a happier title might be \\\"The Best Feeling in the World\\\" (see below).The wonderful Bhikkhu Bodhi has produced a series of great interest to all who\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/2010\/05\/the-greater-discourse-on-the-mass-of-suffering.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"The Greater Discourse on the Mass of Suffering\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/\",\"name\":\"American Buddhist Perspectives\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/#\/schema\/person\/abfb8f851f671638c4c7536b963f9da9\",\"name\":\"Justin Whitaker\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/americanbuddhist\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/817b6fba8ae056aaff4f9bdc84347d72?s=96&d=identicon&r=pg\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/817b6fba8ae056aaff4f9bdc84347d72?s=96&d=identicon&r=pg\",\"caption\":\"Justin Whitaker\"},\"description\":\"I am an almost-life-long Montanan; a baptized Catholic; an ardent Atheist; a practicing Buddhist; a lover of Wisdom. 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I have a BA and almost an MA in (Western) Philosophy from the University of Montana-Missoula, an MA in Buddhist Studies from Bristol University, UK, and I am currently working on a Ph.D. in Buddhist Ethics at the U of London. My main academic foci are early Buddhist ethics and Kant (odd combination, I know). I also study Western ethics, Tibetan Buddhism, Theravada, Comparative philosophy, and Environmental ethics. 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