![\"KCC](\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/83\/2013\/04\/KCC-Retreatents-sitting.jpg\" "\\"KCC")
<\/a>One year with no TV, no cell phones, no email.<\/strong><\/p>\n \u201cYou\u2019re kidding, right??!!\u201d That was the response from one retreatant\u2019s daughter, at least.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n But no, no kidding.\u00a0<\/strong><\/p>\n March 31st marked the first day of a one-year retreat for around a dozen members of\u00a0Kagyu Changchub Chuling \u201cKCC\u201d, a center founded by the renowned Tibetan teacher Kalu Rinpoche<\/a> in Portland in 1976. Along with the retreat leader,\u00a0Lama\u00a0Michael Conklin<\/a>, and a small support staff are\u00a0a doctor, a hip-hop artist, an agriculture specialist returning from Afghanistan, a retired teacher, a university professor, and eight other men and women. Together they will venture into a secluded retreat center\u00a0near the small town of\u00a0Goldendale, Washington.<\/p>\n Just before they went into retreat I was invited to submit a few questions about the retreat to both the retreatants and Lama Michael.<\/p>\n As I awaited word back and consciously cut back on my social media exposure as part of my own mini-retreat or \u201cunplugged\u201d April, I happened upon a well-written reflection from Daniel Warner<\/a>, whose friend recently walked away from his successful fashion design life to ordain as a Buddhist<\/a> monk:<\/p>\n I look at the things I have amassed over the years and surrounded myself with, and not just the material things (of which there are many) but also the relationships and friendships I\u2019ve nurtured or walked away from. I look to the rituals and \u2018quirks\u2019 I have that allow me to leave the house every morning and prepare me emotionally and physically every day, and I wonder if I could ever truly give them up? I try very hard to live a simple, uncomplicated life but when I think about the minor details that make my day run smoothly, things like a perfectly timed tube arrival and then actually getting a seat, or a deadline met with time to spare, or even down to just getting my favourite shower stall at the gym and I wonder, could I ever give up the inconsequential for a months worth of meditating and quiet reflection? Are any of us willing to let go of the things we can control to gain a little more insight into the things that make us \u2018tick\u2019?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n As a regular (though very lazy) meditator, I look upon both stories with a twinge of jealousy (and plenty of\u00a0mudita<\/em>, or sympathetic joy!). But I also share that same sense of uncertainty: could I do that? Would I? What would people think?<\/em><\/p>\n My questions to the retreatants reflected these concerns.<\/p>\n JW: Can\u00a0you talk a little bit about your emotions as you count down to the retreat?<\/strong><\/p>\n <\/strong>Going on the one-year retreat didn\u2019t seem real for quite a while. At times I even hoped\u00a0my teacher would not accept me on the retreat. A few months ago I woke up in the night\u00a0with panic attacks. However, the great support of the KCC community and my family has\u00a0been inspiring. Even tonight, the evening before I leave home for a year, I have some\u00a0nervousness, but also anticipation. We had a year to prepare for this and now it is here.\u00a0My husband and son have always been supportive. They are very adventurous. However,\u00a0my daughter and mother expressed some concern. We are very close and talk a lot. We will\u00a0miss that intimacy.\u00a0\u2013 Kay Hartsock<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW:\u00a0<\/strong>Do you have a greatest hope and\/or fear about the next 365 days that you would like to share?<\/strong><\/p>\n My greatest hope is that I will reach some stability in my meditation practice \u2014 a quiet\u00a0mind that can be open to seeing how things really are. My fears include losing faith in the\u00a0practice, getting homesick and lonely for my family, getting sick.\u00a0\u2013 Kay Hartsock<\/p>\n First, I need to say that I am so happy and amazed that conditions have come together for\u00a0me to engage in this extended retreat! It is a rare opportunity for growth-hopefully toward\u00a0more wisdom, compassion and kindness in my own heart and mind-and then my hope is to\u00a0act with that always. What I have heard about going into retreat is to have no expectations,\u00a0just to be happy and grateful to have the chance to improve the mind and heart. This has\u00a0been very good advice and has helped me calm down when I start getting nervous or upset\u00a0about the small issues that appear when getting ready. I think all of us going on this truly\u00a0hope to increase the peace in our minds, our families, with our friends, our work mates and\u00a0then extending out in ripples to all.<\/p>\n \u2013 Kathleen Herron, Karma Zopa<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW:\u00a0<\/strong>This tradition of long retreat is still extremely rare in the US. How have people you have talked<\/strong>\u00a0with about it reacted? Are friends, family, coworkers and broader community bewildered,<\/strong>\u00a0worried, supportive, etc?<\/strong><\/p>\n When a friend of mine went on a one-year retreat about a decade ago, I couldn\u2019t understand\u00a0why she would do such a thing, but I didn\u2019t say anything. I am assuming that people who\u00a0don\u2019t understand or think it\u2019s crazy keep those opinions to themselves. Most people are kind\u00a0that way. However, I am sure some are bewildered and definitely some are worried. The\u00a0most vocal people are very supportive.<\/p>\n My daughter, Genevieve, just called and we talked for over an hour (as usual). I wanted to\u00a0write what she said since it relates to the interview questions. Genevieve is 25 and we have\u00a0always been very close. \u201cMom,\u201d she said, \u201cI will miss you so much, but this is your next\u00a0step. You\u2019ve had an inner spiritual practice for over 40 years. As long as I\u2019ve known you,\u00a0you\u2019ve been doing this. When I tell the people I work with and my friends what you are\u00a0doing, they are amazed and think you are very brave. It\u2019s something very few people get to\u00a0do \u2014 and you\u2019re getting to do it with a group of wonderful people. I\u2019m happy for you. It\u2019s\u00a0going to be wonderful. I admire you so much for doing this.\u201d<\/p>\n Genevieve was not greatly enthusiastic about the retreat when I first told her. When she\u00a0found out there would be no email (to quote her, \u201cYou\u2019re kidding, right??!!\u201d), she was even\u00a0less enthusiastic. However, over the months of talking about it, she began to understand.\u00a0She came to the KCC Retreat Celebration and left feeling much more positive about the\u00a0coming year. \u201cThey are really wonderful people,\u201d she said about the KCC sangha. \u201cIt\u00a0seems so many people are inspired by this retreat. I know Dad is inspired by it and you\u2019ve\u00a0known him even longer than you\u2019ve known me \u2014 or maybe not. Maybe we\u2019ve known each\u00a0other forever.\u201d<\/p>\n \u2013 Kay Hartsock<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Responding to the same question,\u00a0Julie Hurlocker responded:<\/strong><\/p>\n There has been some of all those responses, but with much more emphasis on \u201csupport\u201d\u2013\u00a0especially from the \u2018least likely\u2019 people. (ie members of my family who are anti-religion and\u00a0not particularly spiritually inclined)<\/p>\n There appears to be a great yearning out there for experiencing something beyond this self-centered drama: for seeking a greater happiness than merely \u2018getting what I want\u2019. There is\u00a0a recognition of something basically \u2018unsatisfactory\u2019 about a lot of what we occupy ourselves\u00a0with and, therefore, I have experienced a \u2018cheering\u2019 from the crowd to continue the inward\u00a0journey. Even though many of the specific practices of our tradition are not familiar to\u00a0them, for many of my friends and family the common aspiration to be useful, to be of\u00a0service; to cause less harm and to find therein a deeper peace seems an almost universal\u00a0wish.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Similarly, when thinking of a big retreat, it is the people in charge that can make it \u2013 or break it \u2013 for everyone involved. With that in mind I wanted to ask some more specific questions of Lama Michael, especially in light of some recent problems \u2013 which he kindly obliged.<\/p>\n JW: Beyond your bio<\/a>, can you tell us about your \u00a0own journey into and<\/strong>\u00a0through Buddhism? What were some of the key turning points in your path,<\/strong>\u00a0insights, challenges, etc?<\/strong><\/p>\n Of course we could talk for 3 days about journeys into things, or longer! I will\u00a0summarize it. I had no intention of becoming Buddhist \u2013 no interest. It was an\u00a0accidental encounter with Buddhism back in 1974 that started me on this path. I went\u00a0with a friend to see a teaching given by Kagyu master Kalu Rinpoche. Even an hour\u00a0before seeing that talk, I probably would have said that it would be highly improbable\u00a0that I\u2019d have interest in Buddhism or any other religious tradition. It was therefore\u00a0kind of surprising how quickly it became clear that I was willing to set forth on this\u00a0path. It happened in almost a matter of minutes. We have in Buddhism \u201cthe truth of\u00a0interdependence.\u201d If I would have met him 2 yrs earlier, nothing would have gelled.\u00a0But at this time, there was a lot of suffering in my life, and Kalu Rinpoche, by his mere\u00a0presence, showed the possibility of change.<\/p>\n It was not necessarily a pleasant journey for the first dozen years because I still was\u00a0not interested on many levels. But I couldn\u2019t deny the connection with Kalu Rinpoche.\u00a0I knew he was the real thing \u2013 not one of the people I\u2019d judged as a hypocrite or\u00a0fundamentalist before. Everyone comes to Buddhism through different doors. I was\u00a0part of the 60s movement when people were cynical and questioning the traditions that\u00a0they had grown up in. I was in San Francisco, which Chogyam Trungpa called \u201cThe\u00a0Great Spiritual SuperMarket.\u201d There was suddenly lots of new age religion, variations\u00a0of Christianity, Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, etc. It wasn\u2019t necessarily healthy from a\u00a0spiritual standpoint, but it was exhilarating. That was the milieu.<\/p>\n When I met Kalu Rinpoche, it was a little like riding toward Niagara Falls: You don\u2019t see\u00a0the falls until you\u2019ve just gone over it. You HAD a choice at some point along the way, but, in the moment of going over the falls, you no longer do. In a way, I loved that there\u00a0was no choice, but it did reorient my life completely so I felt like I was starting again.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW: You have been at this for going on 40 years now. Did you have any visions or<\/strong>\u00a0ideas back in the 1970s about what Buddha-Dharma might look like in the US in the<\/strong>\u00a021st century? How has reality come to meet or fail to meet those ideas?<\/strong><\/p>\n I had no idea. I didn\u2019t really think about it. Of course, I did witness the Dharma growing.\u00a0In the early days, there were only two books on Buddhism in the Shambhala bookstore,\u00a0which has grown into the major publisher we now know. By the time I went on long\u00a0retreat, there were about 200 books. So I witnessed Buddhism growing very fast,\u00a0particularly in San Francisco and Berkeley. Most people came and went. They\u2019d try\u00a0it and quit, or they\u2019d try something else and come back. Not many people had a solid\u00a0connection at that time.<\/p>\n Trungpa Rinpoche visited KDK in San Francisco and said that Buddhism does not grow\u00a0because of institutions and dharma centers. He said it only grows through practice. So\u00a0one can be part of the growth, or they can be part of the end. I wanted to help, though at\u00a0that point I still wasn\u2019t totally interested in all of the practices of Buddhism. That took a\u00a0while to develop.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW: What are the prerequisites for a 1-year retreat in your tradition?<\/strong><\/p>\n When we started talking about one and 3 yr retreats, I asked myself whether I was\u00a0qualified to choose who goes into such a retreat. I realized quickly that I was not! I\u00a0felt totally incompetent. It was still a long ways away at that point, so I started talking\u00a0to some psychologists. Some told me that they\u2019d be able to tell who should obviously\u00a0not go into a long retreat \u2013 such as someone with paranoid schizophrenia \u2013 and that I\u2019d\u00a0be able to see that for myself. But no one felt confident that they\u2019d know who would\u00a0actually succeed in such an environment. I talked to a priest in charge of screening\u00a0applicants in the Archdiocese. He admitted the seminary is nothing like a long retreat,\u00a0and asked, \u201chave you tried talking to NASA?\u201d It\u2019s a rare person who can go on a mission\u00a0with NASA! Of course, as this priest pointed out, NASA has thousands of applicants and\u00a0it\u2019s easier to find a few stalwart people among them. We don\u2019t have that option. We will\u00a0never have that many applicants!<\/p>\n I have come to some conclusions. One needs to have an experiential \u2013 not just\u00a0conceptual \u2013 understanding of the causes of confusion in the world\u2014an understanding\u00a0of how our emotions and intellect lead us astray and cause suffering in the world.\u00a0Retreatants have to be familiar with the disease itself. And it is helpful to see it as a\u00a0disease, not a character defect. It\u2019s something that we have \u2013 that we\u2019re bewildered by.\u00a0This means, by extension that retreatants have done a fair amount of practice. Maybe\u00a01000 hours? Of course someone might be qualified with a 100 hours, or others will have\u00a0insights into our suffering more immediately. But 1000 hours is not a bad marker. On a\u00a01 yr retreat, they\u2019ll do about 4000 hours of practice.<\/p>\n For this retreat, it\u2019s good if they have the Milarepa empowerment for a ritual we\u00a0will do in the retreat, but they don\u2019t need to have \u00a0finished or done a lot of Ngondro (foundational) practice. Age is not a deciding factor. Ordinary psychological health\u00a0is important. There\u2019s no requirement to be free of suffering. The world contains a\u00a0high level of neurosis. As Alan Wallace has said, there is a very low bar of sanity in\u00a0this world. We should at least meet the low bar of normal psychological health in the\u00a0world before starting the retreat. Chogyam Trungpa would send people to psychologists\u00a0sometimes to deal with ordinary psychological troubles \u2013 even if those issues may have\u00a0just been things like being too controlling or blaming others too much. He\u2019d say, see\u00a0a therapist, and come back and then maybe you can then engage in certain practices or\u00a0enter retreat.<\/p>\n Not much of this is objective, measurable criteria, which is why I felt incompetent in the\u00a0beginning.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW: Many of us followed the news out of Bowie, Arizona last year quite closely,<\/strong>\u00a0where a Tibetan Buddhist retreat fell into troubles and the retreat leader and her<\/strong>\u00a0boyfriend were asked to leave (link<\/a>). The two wound up staying in a nearby cave until,<\/strong>\u00a0tragically, the boyfriend passed away from dehydration and exhaustion. While<\/strong>\u00a0tragedies like that are extremely rare, I understand you must have some \u2018fail-safes\u2019<\/strong>\u00a0in place to ensure the safety and health of the retreatants. Could you talk a bit about\u00a0<\/strong>that?<\/strong><\/p>\n This is a great question and this situation opens up a whole area that is and should be\u00a0of deep interest to everybody. A couple things need to be said first: 1) I feel certain I\u00a0don\u2019t have all the information about what happened there. There are some things that I\u00a0heard went on, which I don\u2019t like, but I am not totally comfortable in a judgmental mode.\u00a02) There has not been any major religious tradition free of these things. If I were to be\u00a0a Christian, I would be horrified by atrocities that happen related to other Christians.\u00a0Similarly, I feel that with what happened in Arizona. I feel sad about what happened to\u00a0the people and about its impact on the tradition. We are at a fragile time and long retreats\u00a0don\u2019t have public support. There is a lack of understanding about what retreat is about.\u00a0But, in this world of confusion, there will always be terrible things that happen. I could\u00a0go away for 2 weeks after having talked to each person in the retreat, and come back and\u00a0find that some terrible tragedy has occurred. And some would say that this means that\u00a0long retreats are evil, and we\u2019d be left with no way of knowing or testing whether this\u00a0tragedy would have occurred with or without the retreat in place.<\/p>\n What I\u2019ve read is that, in this situation, there were a lot of things that contributed to an\u00a0unhealthy level of isolation. Comments by Michael Roach appeared to set his approach\u00a0apart from the rest of the Buddhist community. The retreat center was quite remote and\u00a0the retreat cabins themselves were separate by significant distances \u2013 one couldn\u2019t see\u00a0any other cabin from one\u2019s own cabin. I\u2019ve read that people would spend months there\u00a0without coming out. That\u2019s pretty tough. We have a lot of evidence that would indicate\u00a0that there might be serious psychological problems resulting from such isolation.<\/p>\n So it sounds like that was a very high-risk situation. In Tibet, there weren\u2019t very many\u00a0people who lived alone in caves. It was unusual. We know about the great survivors\u00a0\u2013 the Milarepas \u2013 but others probably did not survive. It\u2019s a romantic idea. And very\u00a0high-risk. That is why we have 2 group practices each day \u2013 morning and evening. If\u00a0you are having a serious psychological problem, it will be difficult to hide it. Retreatants\u00a0will have access to several different teachers. We also have avenues for people to be in\u00a0contact with people outside of the retreat.<\/p>\n Experimenting is part of a spiritual path, but the leadership must be very careful to keep\u00a0its nose clean. I have to assume that Michael Roach likely wanted to help people, but\u00a0he had said and done some things that estranged him from individuals like the Dalai\u00a0Lama, and thus from much other leadership long ago. When criticisms and concerns were\u00a0raised, it seems like they were ignored. It\u2019s better to change the tire when you first hear it\u00a0flopping on the pavement outside of your window, rather than driving another 500 miles.\u00a0So now, though he may want to help others, it will be hard in this life to get his \u201cspiritual\u00a0currency\u201d back. I have no beef with Michael Roach, as I\u2019ve never met him. I do hope\u00a0something good comes of that situation.<\/p>\n The truth of interdependence means we cannot see all the variables functioning and\u00a0therefore cannot always avoid difficulty. But of course we make efforts to prevent\u00a0problems at our center. Rather than placing the teacher at the top of the organization,\u00a0our structure places the Board of Directors on a par with the Resident Lama. Also,\u00a0the Board and the sangha have the power to remove the Resident Lama. And we\u00a0have a grievance procedure. As Resident Lama, I often try to make suggestions to the\u00a0organization in the spirit of: \u201cjust consider this perspective.\u201d I specifically want to avoid\u00a0being taken to mean: \u201cwe have to do this.\u201d We have to empower people to stand up\u00a0and say what\u2019s on their mind, and have balanced, talented and qualified people to make\u00a0decisions. There is a problem when someone has too much authority; even the Dalai\u00a0Lama does not take absolute authority.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW: Along similar lines, there have been a number of <\/strong>sex scandals<\/a> and <\/strong>allegations<\/a>\u00a0in recent months regarding Buddhist teachers and their students. Again this is<\/strong>\u00a0relatively rare given the numbers of practicing Buddhists in the US, but hopefully<\/strong>\u00a0we can learn as much from groups like yours that have not had these problems, as<\/strong>\u00a0we can from those who have. Do you have a code of conduct or set procedures for<\/strong>\u00a0conflicts arising from sexuality in your center or broader lineage?<\/strong><\/p>\n We don\u2019t have as much in place as we would like to have or as we would have if our\u00a0organization had more resources. We follow the 5 basic precepts, which includes no\u00a0sexual misconduct. Of course, culturally, there are different definitions of such a thing.\u00a0At one point in the 70s, Kalu Rinpoche had expressed that, if you were in an intimate\u00a0relationship with someone currently, it should be for life. In San Francisco at that time,\u00a0this may have been a culturally unrealistic rule.<\/p>\n In any case I feel that one of the best antidotes to abuse of privilege is education. As\u00a0an organization, we need to talk about the dynamics that are at work. How, within the organization, the leaders wind up with more institutional currency\/power. People need to\u00a0know that they can say what they need to say if they disagree with the leadership.<\/p>\n Ultimately, having the conversation and continuing to have it throughout the organization\u00a0is the best way to create health. We need more on this score, and we need to further\u00a0develop our grievance procedures and make sure they are public and that everyone knows JW: Surely India or Nepal could provide amazing, well-established facilities for such a<\/strong>\u00a0retreat. Why do this in America, in rural Washington State, no less?<\/strong><\/p>\n We wanted a rural place where we were allowed to build. We looked \u2013 I mean really\u00a0looked \u2013 for about a year, and in all our searching, we found 2 parcels that would have\u00a0worked before deciding on the land outside of Goldendale. There are many reasons why it\u2019s difficult for individuals to do it in India. Cultural and language differences are of course a challenge. The food is not our food and the medical care situation is different. There, you need to be fluent in Tibetan \u2013 not just be able to order off a menu and very few practitioners have learned Tibetan at this level.<\/p>\n But for us it is not just a matter of the difficulties of training in Asia. As an organization,\u00a0KCC chose to make this effort because retreats of this nature have been essential to\u00a0keeping the dharma alive over the generations. If the Dharma is going to take root in this\u00a0country it is essential for retreats like this to become part of the natural fabric of Dharma\u00a0life, not just an exotic thing that happens far away. The members of our community are\u00a0stewards of the land where the retreat is, we built the facilities for this retreat and now community members are going onto retreat. So the retreat that is just starting really feels\u00a0like it is our retreat, it is very much a part of the life of our community.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n JW: Anything else?<\/strong><\/p>\n That is it. Thank you for this conversation!<\/p><\/blockquote>\n And thank you, Lama Michael, to the retreatants, Kay, Kathleen, and Julie, for your time and thoughtful responses, and to Bill Schneider for all of the help in connecting us.<\/p>\n My best wishes for a fruitful year to all, both in retreat and out.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" One year with no TV, no cell phones, no email. \u201cYou\u2019re kidding, right??!!\u201d That was the response from one retreatant\u2019s daughter, at least.\u00a0 But no, no kidding.\u00a0 March 31st marked the first day of a one-year retreat for around a dozen members of\u00a0Kagyu Changchub Chuling \u201cKCC\u201d, a center founded by the renowned Tibetan teacher Kalu […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":118,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[9,19],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2296","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-american-buddhism","category-meditation"],"yoast_head":"\n<\/a>
\nabout them.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n