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<\/a><\/p>\nBEN: In your second chapter (p. 31) you seem to negate the Johannine contrast between John\u2019s baptizing with water and Jesus with the Spirit (John 1.33). You would prefer it to say \u2018I baptize with water , but I am unworthy to untie his shoelaces\u2019. But surely the text says that John said both\u2014 both that he was unworthy to untie Jesus\u2019 sandals and that Jesus will baptize with the Spirit. Explain why you don\u2019t want to take John 1.33 at face value especially since Mk. 1.7-8 has John make the same pronouncement. This is confusing.<\/p>\n
JACK: The typical \u201cnot water but Spirit\u201d that is familiar from Mark does not occur in the Gospel of John. Why? I wanted to know. The answer, I found, lay in the humility of John the Baptist, for whom even a contrast of his water baptism with Jesus\u2019 Spirit baptism drew too much attention to himself. So the typical water-Spirit contrast does not exist in the Fourth Gospel because John the Baptist is simply too humble to connect, even by way of contrast, his water baptism with Jesus\u2019 Spirit baptism. Would that all of us had that humility, which is perhaps more apparent in the Gospel of John than even in the Synoptic gospels. (I hope I have cleared up the confusion.)<\/p>\n
BEN: On p. 32-33 you want to take \u2018de\u2019 to mean and<\/em>, but of course the normal way to say \u2018and\u2019 is \u2018kai\u2019<\/em> in Greek. And I don\u2019t see any reason why Jesus\u2019 prophetic call couldn\u2019t involve repentance (\u2018repent for the kingdom of God is at hand\u2019) just as John\u2019s call does, even though there is the contrast between John\u2019s and Jesus\u2019 baptisms. It\u2019s not what accompanies the baptisms that is contrasted it\u2019s the baptisms themselves by the use of \u2018de\u2019 in the contrast. You add \u201cbaptism in the H.S. will complete the process of purification that John\u2019s water baptism, a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins, begins.\u201d (p. 33). There are various sayings of Jesus which suggest that this reading of continuity between the two baptisms doesn\u2019t work. For example, Jesus says that John is the greatest of the old era, indeed of the old line of prophets, but even the least person in the kingdom is greater than him. This implies a contrast. This doesn\u2019t in any way negate the notion that Jesus also expected repentance and turning to be his disciple and enter the Kingdom, but the contrast between Jesus and John\u2019s ministries in various respects should not be ignored or negated.<\/p>\nIt is interesting that in the Fourth Gospel we are told that Jesus baptized no one with water, and in no Gospel are we told that Jesus went through ritual purification rites in a mikveh<\/em>, unless of course you see Jesus\u2019 baptism that way, which I would not. Jesus in addition never reacts when an unclean person touches him, indeed Mark 7 tells us that he said it is not what enters a person or touches a person that defiles them but rather what comes out of their hearts. Hence the need for regular repentance for Jesus\u2019 followers. Why do you feel the need to stress continuity between the ministries of John and Jesus sometimes at the expense of the discontinuity, and not simply say there are elements of continuity and discontinuity between these two ministries? Even John asked from prison whether Jesus was the one to come because Jesus\u2019s ministry was so strikingly different from John\u2019s in various respects.<\/p>\nJACK:<\/p>\n
Contrast<\/p>\n
I heartily affirm (see prior question) the contrast prompted by John the Baptist\u2019s humility. In a sense, I see an ultra-contrast. John refuses to put himself in the same camp as Jesus when it comes to baptism in water (John) and baptism in the Spirit (Jesus). He is too humble for that, \u201cdrenched in humility but driven by hope\u201d (page 32). I go on to say, \u201cdrenched in humility but driven by hope, [John] draws a sharp contrast between his baptism in water and Jesus\u2019s baptism in the Holy Spirit.\u201d<\/p>\n
Continuity<\/p>\n
I see continuity in the need for repentance. I think this quote makes the case:<\/p>\n
\u201cA baptism of repentance, in other words, is not the antithesis of baptism with the Holy Spirit. It is not an act of the will as opposed to an act of grace. Repentance is the precursor to a baptism with the Holy Spirit. If there is evidence of baptism in the Holy Spirit, it is not so much, in John\u2019s words, spiritual gifts, not even speaking in tongues<\/a>. It is a life of repentance. Lifelong penitence. The discipline of constantly turning back\u2014which, of course, is precisely what the angel said the boy would do: \u201cHe will turn back many of the people of Israel to the Lord their God. With the spirit and power of Elijah he will go before him, to turn back the hearts of parents to their children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the righteous, to make ready a people prepared for the Lord\u201d (Luke 1:16-17, modified).\u201d<\/p>\nWhat I try to do with John the Baptist\u2019s saying about the Holy Spirit is to glimpse contrast (water versus Spirit), prompted by John\u2019s humility, and continuity, prompted by John\u2019s commitment to lifelong penitence.<\/p>\n
And now to the little matter of the de. You\u2019ll love this story, Ben. I was in the great W. D. Davies\u2019 final Duke seminar on Matthew\u2019s gospel. It was a marvel, as you can imagine. I wrote a paper, in which I argued for continuity rather than contrast in the \u201cYou have said \u2026 but I say\u201d sayings in Matthew 5:21-48. I argued that Jesus sees continuity between Torah and his own teachings: \u201cYou have heard \u2026 and I say.\u201d I figured Davies would tear it apart in his inimitable Welsh way. He didn\u2019t. He agreed! He said, the Greek particle, de, is like clearing your throat. Who could forget that? (He later called me into his office\u2014uh oh, I thought\u2014to express his agreement more personally.)<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
BEN: In your second chapter (p. 31) you seem to negate the Johannine contrast between John\u2019s baptizing with water and Jesus with the Spirit (John 1.33). You would prefer it to say \u2018I baptize with water , but I am unworthy to untie his shoelaces\u2019. But surely the text says that John said both\u2014 both […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":91,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-37858","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\n
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