{"id":3172,"date":"2014-11-07T08:00:08","date_gmt":"2014-11-07T13:00:08","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/crywoof\/?p=3172"},"modified":"2014-12-23T15:55:31","modified_gmt":"2014-12-23T20:55:31","slug":"more-thoughts-on-schism","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/crywoof\/2014\/11\/more-thoughts-on-schism\/","title":{"rendered":"More Thoughts on Schism"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>Yesterday I made the somewhat cryptic comment, \u201cBut if we set ourselves against the Pope and the bishops as a general thing, then we are in schism already; and if we remain there the Church will leave us behind.\u201d  When I said the \u201cChurch will leave us behind,\u201d here\u2019s what I was thinking.<\/p>\n<p>Consider the last two major schisms from the Catholic Church: the Society of St. Pius X, founded in 1970, and the Old Catholics, founded in (more or less) 1871.  It\u2019s too early to tell what will happen with the SSPX.  They might remain in schism; they might rejoin the larger Church.  They might remain frozen in time at the moment of schism, never changing, like a fly caught in amber.<\/p>\n<p>But the case of the Old Catholic Church is fascinating.  The proximate cause of the schism was the notion of Papal Infallibility, which was defined as doctrine at Vatican I.  The Catholics in the diocese of Utrecht who couldn\u2019t agree with the notion banded together, and eventually others joined them.  The result today is the Union of Utrecht, a collection of Old Catholic Churches (note the plural).  The Union of Utrecht is in formal communion with the Anglican Communion, and is similarly an inclusive body that allows a diversity of theological opinion.  Ordination of women is now standard.<\/p>\n<p>Schism can only be justified if the schismatic body can make the claim that it is, truly, the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church.  The Old Catholics are clearly not universal, going out and making disciples of all nations.  They are no longer clearly apostolic. That is, their bishops might still have the apostolic succession; but they are in full communion with the Anglicans, who do not uniformly have it (it\u2019s especially spotty in the Episcopal Church here in the United States, I\u2019m told) and have abandoned certain of the teachings of the apostles.  And since they are not united with the Church they broke from, they can certainly not claim to be \u201cone\u201d.  <\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s interesting to me that the SSPX and our latter-day would-be schismatics are foundering on the same point of doctrine: the infallibility of the pope.  The SSPX believes that in convening and countenancing the decrees of Vatican II that Pope Paul VI screwed up big time.  Our current schismatics are certain that Pope Francis either already has or is about to do the same.<\/p>\n<p>Let us remember what that infallibility comprises.  It isn\u2019t that the pope can\u2019t be mistaken, or misspeak, or commit sins.  It\u2019s the principle that the pope will not teach untruth about faith and morals authoritatively\u2014that the Holy Spirit will not allow him to teach untruth about faith and morals authoritatively.  That\u2019s a radical statement; and yet the history of the Church supports it.<\/p>\n<p>It\u2019s sometimes said that the center cannot hold; but certainly, the center does not hold when you explicitly choose to let go of it.  And then you drift out into the open seas of apostasy and become, like the Old Catholics, just another Protestant sect.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Yesterday I made the somewhat cryptic comment, \u201cBut if we set ourselves against the Pope and the bishops as a general thing, then we are in schism already; and if we remain there the Church will leave us behind.\u201d When I said the \u201cChurch will leave us behind,\u201d here\u2019s what I was thinking. Consider the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1131,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[43],"tags":[600,599],"class_list":["post-3172","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-deep-thoughts-from-the-doghouse","tag-old-catholics","tag-schism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>More Thoughts on Schism<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Yesterday I made the somewhat cryptic comment, &quot;But if we set ourselves against the Pope and the bishops as a general thing, then we are in schism\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/crywoof\/2014\/11\/more-thoughts-on-schism\/\" 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