{"id":2026,"date":"2013-03-07T20:15:00","date_gmt":"2013-03-07T20:15:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/daffeythoughts\/2013\/03\/catholics-where-the-hell-is-hell.html"},"modified":"2013-03-07T20:15:00","modified_gmt":"2013-03-07T20:15:00","slug":"catholics-where-the-hell-is-hell","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/daffeythoughts\/2013\/03\/catholics-where-the-hell-is-hell.html","title":{"rendered":"Catholics where the hell is Hell?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>A month or so ago, a\u00a0conservation\u00a0swept across the\u00a0internet\u00a0involving speculation about the hereafter. \u00a0The main crux of the issue was hoping all humanity is saved vs. the possibility that some will not be saved. \u00a0That is, some will spend an eternity\u00a0separated\u00a0from God in a place we commonly translate with the word <i>Hell<\/i>. \u00a0It was an interesting conversation. \u00a0It touched on many different points. \u00a0What shocked me, however, was the number of Catholics who have already dismissed the doctrine of Hell as passe; at least, Hell as anything real. \u00a0Two individuals had \u201cFr.\u201d before their names, though on the Internet, that might not mean much. \u00a0Several\u00a0spoke of Hell existing, for Satan and the fallen angels, but in a Barth-like turn of doctrine, all humanity will be saved. \u00a0From St. Peter to Hitler and Mao, it\u2019s going to be the great banquet feast!<\/p>\n<p>I realize this is not a new idea. \u00a0In fact, for most of the Faith\u2019s history, there have been those who have questioned the idea that God would allow people to suffer for all\u00a0eternity, to be cast into the outer darkness for all that is\u00a0outside of time and space. \u00a0That\u2019s even worse than the Sarlacc! \u00a0How could God do it? \u00a0Especially\u00a0when there is already so much suffering, and our only hope is through mere faith, not by God actually\u00a0appearing\u00a0in front of us in human shape to tell each generation here He is. <\/p>\n<p>Nonetheless, the Church\u2019s historic answer has been: tough. \u00a0Basically, it\u2019s said whether we like it or not, that\u2019s the makeup of eternity. \u00a0That\u2019s why we needed saved. \u00a0That\u2019s what makes the Good News so damn good. That\u2019s why God sent a savior. \u00a0To save us from the penalty of our sins. \u00a0Sure, salvation is more than just an insurance policy that eliminates the need for 900000 point sun blocker. \u00a0But the escape from an eternity\u00a0separated\u00a0from God was certainly one of the main selling points of the Gospel. <\/p>\n<p>Plus, to be honest, it\u00a0incorporated\u00a0a concept I\u2019m hearing less, and less, and less of in the Church, and that\u2019s the concept of Justice. \u00a0That idea that\u00a0God\u00a0is a merciful God. \u00a0God is a loving God. \u00a0But God is also a just God. \u00a0The idea that justice is real, and not only when it comes to bending governments and\u00a0societies\u00a0to taking care of the widow and the orphan\u2019s healthcare and nutritional needs. \u00a0There is a sort of \u2018all accounts are\u00a0reconciled\u00a0in the end\u2019, an\u00a0opening\u00a0of the books and judging the dead based on what they had done. \u00a0I realize that the\u00a0thief\u00a0on the cross had his famous 11th hour and 59th minute conversion. \u00a0I know the biblical passages of 1 Timothy and 2 Peter. \u00a0I got that.<\/p>\n<p>But this has always \u2013 and I mean always \u2013 been balanced with the sheer fact that despite God\u2019s wishes, not all will be saved. \u00a0God doesn\u2019t desire sin, but yet we sin. \u00a0God doesn\u2019t desire the little ones to suffer. \u00a0And yet they suffer. \u00a0The promise of Justice has always been that those who call upon the Lord will be saved, they will be redeemed, they will have their rewards who may have had nothing in this world due to the evil that men (and women) do. \u00a0And this is more than a promise of justice. \u00a0It\u2019s a reality. A notion that this whole world isn\u2019t just one big test drive for eternity, where nothing really matters, where everything is just a temp tag for what\u2019s real in the netherworld. \u00a0Justice says that this created order is as integral a part of reality as the next. \u00a0What we do here does have ramifications, because the one small moment of a baby\u2019s precious breath is a part of the whole fabric, one that ultimately includes an eternity in heaven before the throne of the Almighty \u2013 or not, as the case may be. \u00a0It\u2019s why we\u2019re judged. \u00a0And it\u2019s why, if we follow the wide path that leadeth unto\u00a0destruction, well, you know.<\/p>\n<p>Now, I\u2019ll admit that ditching the idea of Hell goes a long way toward opening up to other things. \u00a0It\u2019s not some cosmic coincidence that mainline Protestant denominations that have ditched Hell tend to be more focused on the individuals, disdaining the death penalty and all armed conflicts, focusing less on authority and more on the right of each person to define his or her own reality. \u00a0Things like war, punishment, negative reinforcement \u2013 they just crush the individual\u2019s right to be an individual. As for the ramifications? Well, in the end, we all end up in heaven anyway. \u00a0It\u2019s just not worth it down here, and if an innocent\u00a0suffers\u00a0 well, there\u2019s automatic salvation, however\u00a0vaguely\u00a0or new-agely that salvation is defined.<\/p>\n<p>How the Church will continue to hold onto its historic teachings if it begins to jettison key doctrines like Hell, I don\u2019t know. \u00a0But then again, I\u2019m not sure I\u2019m\u00a0convinced\u00a0on it\u2019s\u00a0jettisoning\u00a0of teachings like Capital Punishment or Just War (which seems to be going the same direction that Capital Punishment was going a couple decades ago). \u00a0Maybe it isn\u2019t. \u00a0Maybe it is. Will it hold firm? \u00a0Will it toss it and other doctrines out with the bathwater? \u00a0Will it look back and say \u2018we used to believe silly things like\u00a0that\u00a0 but we\u2019re much better now\u2019? \u00a0I don\u2019t know. \u00a0I just found the discussion interesting. \u00a0And yet, not altogether shocking.<\/p>\n<p>I leave you with a couple of verses from a lyric we used to sing in Seminary. \u00a0It was a\u00a0humorous\u00a0tribute to Rudolf Bultmann\u00a0 the famous German Protestant Theologian who popularized the idea of demythologizing\u00a0the New Testament. \u00a0That is, admitting that the New \u2013 as well as the Old \u2013 was just a collection of myths, fables, and fairy tales. \u00a0Bultmann promoted a sort of\u00a0existentialist\u00a0spin on Christian doctrine, though some of my professors who actually heard him said that he could preach the old time religion as well as Billy Graham. \u00a0For him, it was not a contradiction to say \u2018The Christ who died for your sins\u2019 and elsewhere say \u2018it was all a made up legend to put a philosophical and spiritual spin on events that may not have happened.\u2019 \u00a0So out of humor, an individual rewrote the words to the Protestant\u00a0hymn\u00a0\u201c<i>Jesus, Jesus How I love You.<\/i>\u201d \u00a0I can\u2019t\u00a0remember\u00a0the whole song, but I remember these two verses, one of which is quite pertinent to my musings:<\/p>\n<p>Rudolf, Rudolf we\u2019ve been thinking<br>What a pity it would be<br>If our faith were transformed into<br>Existentiality.<\/p>\n<p>Rudolf, Rudolf<br>You have shown us<br>Heaven here on earth must dwell<br>Purgatory\u2019s gone to Limbo<br>Rudolf where the hell is Hell?<\/p>\n<p>I wonder if there will be a similar cant directed at the Church someday. \u00a0Time will tell I guess.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>A month or so ago, a\u00a0conservation\u00a0swept across the\u00a0internet\u00a0involving speculation about the hereafter. \u00a0The main crux of the issue was hoping all humanity is saved vs. the possibility that some will not be saved. \u00a0That is, some will spend an eternity\u00a0separated\u00a0from God in a place we commonly translate with the word Hell. \u00a0It was an interesting [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2805,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-2026","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Catholics where the hell is Hell?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"A month or so ago, a&nbsp;conservation&nbsp;swept across the&nbsp;internet&nbsp;involving speculation about the hereafter. &nbsp;The main crux of the\" 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