{"id":108992,"date":"2025-02-05T17:54:59","date_gmt":"2025-02-06T00:54:59","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=108992"},"modified":"2025-02-05T23:18:45","modified_gmt":"2025-02-06T06:18:45","slug":"hurrah-for-excommunication-2","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/02\/hurrah-for-excommunication-2.html","title":{"rendered":"Hurrah for Excommunication!"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_31485\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-31485\" style=\"width: 596px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2016\/03\/oakland-california-temple-golden-sunset-1021130-gallery.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-31485\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2016\/03\/oakland-california-temple-golden-sunset-1021130-gallery.jpg\" alt=\"California's 2nd temple\" width=\"596\" height=\"397\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-31485\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Oakland California Temple (LDS Media Library)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Well, the click-bait headline worked, as they typically do. \u00a0Gotcha.<\/p>\n<p>First of all, let me make it plain that I\u2019m saddened by excommunications. \u00a0I don\u2019t, as one very small pod of my somewhat unhinged personal critics pretend to believe, rejoice when people are excommunicated. \u00a0More precisely, though, I\u2019m saddened by the acts of immorality, the abandonment of once-treasured covenants, the loss of spiritual confidence and trust, the angry rejection of Church leadership, the repudiation of central teachings of the Restoration, or whatever else it may be that has led to excommunication. \u00a0What saddens me isn\u2019t so much the excommunication itself, which, in important ways, merely acknowledges a defection from the Kingdom, as it is the original straying from \u00a0fellowship.<\/p>\n<p>Rumors of my glee over excommunications have not only been greatly exaggerated, they\u2019ve been invented out of whole cloth.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ll supply an unusually clear example, not entirely unrelated, of how such things are manufactured entirely <em>ex nihilo<\/em>. \u00a0I apologize for its somewhat gross character: \u00a0A couple of years ago, at the principal place where my most obsessive critics spin their fantasies about me, it was revealed that I believe that those who fail to gain the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom in the hereafter \u2014 the males, anyway \u2014 will be mutilated, that they will literally be anatomically emasculated, in the resurrection. \u00a0And I\u2019m supposed to relish this, and to find it enormously funny. \u00a0As it happens, I had never even <em>heard <\/em>the idea before. \u00a0I\u2019ve never thought any such thing, never imagined any such thing, never written about such a thing \u2014 not so much as a line, at least until I felt that I needed to deny holding such an opinion \u2014 and I absolutely don\u2019t believe it. \u00a0Period. \u00a0It is thoroughly unscriptural:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p id=\"p43\" class=\"verse\" data-aid=\"128350376\">The spirit and the body shall be reunited again in its perfect form; both limb and joint shall be restored to its proper frame, even as we now are at this time . . .<\/p>\n<p id=\"p44\" class=\"verse\" data-aid=\"128350377\">Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but every thing shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body. \u00a0(Alma 11:43-44)<\/p>\n<p data-aid=\"128350377\">The soul shall be restored to the body, and the body to the soul; yea, and every limb and joint shall be restored to its body; yea, even a hair of the head shall not be lost; but all things shall be restored to their proper and perfect frame. \u00a0(Alma 40:23)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Then, more recently, several in that exceedingly weird place took to using the \u201cfact\u201d of my gleeful anticipation of the neutering of unbelieving men, including several specific, prominent, agnostic scientists of the past generation or so, as a revealing window into my allegedly cruel and vengeful soul.<\/p>\n<p>Anyway, back to the idea of excommunication:<\/p>\n<p>Some time back, I read a denunciation of the practice of excommunication from a person who, I think, may still be at least a nominal member of the Church. \u00a0I\u2019ll respond, very briefly, to some of the points raised by this person:<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\u00a0Excommunication is \u201coutdated.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Truthfully, I don\u2019t even know what that claim <em>means<\/em>. \u00a0How does the mere passage of time, in and of itself, render a truth or a (divinely-commanded) practice obsolete? \u00a0Granted, conditions change. \u00a0But when did excommunication pass its sell-by date? \u00a0Was it on 12 May 2009, by any chance? \u00a0At 1:17 PM? \u00a0Or perhaps earlier, sometime in, say, the Fall of 1997?<\/p>\n<p>In the Latter-day Saint understanding, the Church as a whole, in its doctrines and its organizations and its practices, represents the restoration (indeed, <em>the<\/em> Restoration) of very old things. \u00a0We believe temples, apostles, priesthood, baptism, prophets, and other such matters to be exceedingly old, but faithful members of the Church certainly don\u2019t regard them as \u201coutdated.\u201d \u00a0Age isn\u2019t a very potent argument against orthodox Latter-day Saint doctrine.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\u00a0Excommunication is \u201cabusive.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Well, I suppose it could be. \u00a0And perhaps, in a few cases, it has been. \u00a0Church leaders are, after all, human, and subject to all of the limitations to which mortal flesh is heir. \u00a0(Although I would imagine that there are more excommunicants who feel that they\u2019ve been abused than there are actual cases of ecclesiastical abuse. \u00a0Just as there are more criminal defendants who claim to be innocent than there are actually-innocent defendants.) \u00a0But I\u2019ve been involved in enough ecclesiastical disciplinary councils to be quite confident that many and probably the vast majority of them, even when they involve quite grave offenses, are conducted with utmost seriousness, prayerful sensitivity, a profound desire to get things \u201cright,\u201d and a genuine concern for the wellbeing not only of the Church but of the individual whose fellowship is in question.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\u00a0Excommunication has the effect of ostracizing people, socially.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>Well, yes. \u00a0In several senses. \u00a0That\u2019s rather the point of the\u00a0term\u00a0\u00a0<span dir=\"rtl\" lang=\"he\">\u05db\u05e8\u05ea<\/span>\u200e (<i>karath<\/i>, to \u201ccut off\u201d), which occurs in various forms throughout the Hebrew Bible. \u00a0It\u2019s also certainly the point of such New Testament passages as<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p id=\"p15\" class=\"verse highlight\" data-aid=\"128396796\">Moreover if thy brother shall trespass\u00a0against thee, go and tell him\u00a0his fault\u00a0between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. \u00a0But if he will not hear\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">thee, then<\/span>\u00a0take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses\u00a0every word may be established. \u00a0And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">it<\/span>\u00a0unto the church: but if he neglect\u00a0to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. (Matthew 18:15-17)<\/p>\n<p id=\"p1\" class=\"verse\" data-aid=\"128385878\">It is reported commonly\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">that there is fornication<\/span>\u00a0among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father\u2019s wife. \u00a0And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you. \u00a0For I verily, as\u00a0absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present,\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">concerning<\/span>\u00a0him that hath so done this deed . . . \u00a0to deliver\u00a0such an one unto Satan for the destruction\u00a0of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day\u00a0of the Lord Jesus. \u00a0Your glorying\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">is<\/span>\u00a0not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? \u00a0Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even\u00a0Christ our passover\u00a0is sacrificed for us: \u00a0Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">bread<\/span>\u00a0of sincerity\u00a0and truth. \u00a0I wrote unto you in an epistle\u00a0not to company\u00a0with fornicators. . . . \u00a0But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. \u00a0(1 Corinthians 5:1-4, 6-9, 11)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">But, according to the New Testament, such \u201costracism\u201d isn\u2019t reserved only for cases of gross immorality:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">Now I beseech you, brethren, mark\u00a0them which cause divisions\u00a0and offences\u00a0contrary to the doctrine\u00a0which ye have learned; and avoid them. \u00a0(Romans 16:17)<\/p>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into\u00a0<span class=\"clarity-word\">your house<\/span>, neither bid him God speed: \u00a0For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker\u00a0of his evil deeds. \u00a0(2 John 1:10-11)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">And, needless to say, the practice of excommunication has continued by revelation in modern scripture, as well, and under the leadership of contemporary prophets and apostles.<\/p>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">Ostracism from Latter-day Saint society as such, however, seems to me to be, as often as not, substantially self-imposed. \u00a0Certainly the Church advocates nothing like formal \u201cshunning.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>I recall reading a letter, many years ago, from an elderly ex-LDS lady to a monthly Baptist tabloid that was focused on attacking the <a href='https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/library\/mormonism' target='_blank'>Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints<\/a>. \u00a0In her letter, she lamented how, supposedly urged on to it by Church leaders, her children had begun to avoid her, to fail to invite her to social events, and the like. \u00a0But then, seemingly without the slightest tincture of self-awareness, she also told how, at every family birthday party and picnic, she spent as much time as she could on denouncing Joseph Smith, attacking their faith, and trying to bring her grandchildren out of the cult of \u201cMormonism.\u201d \u00a0It didn\u2019t take much imagination to realize that no directive from any bishop or stake president to her kids was required for them to stop inviting such a tiresome anti-Mormon bore, Grandma though she was, to their family barbecues.<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<p id=\"p41\" class=\"verse highlight\" data-aid=\"128364076\">No power\u00a0or influence can or ought to be maintained by virtue of the priesthood, only by\u00a0persuasion, by\u00a0long-suffering, by gentleness and meekness, and by love unfeigned; by\u00a0kindness, and pure\u00a0knowledge, which shall greatly enlarge the\u00a0soul\u00a0without\u00a0hypocrisy, and without\u00a0guile\u2014reproving\u00a0betimes with\u00a0sharpness, when\u00a0moved\u00a0upon by the Holy Ghost; and then showing forth afterwards an increase of\u00a0love\u00a0toward him whom thou hast reproved, lest he esteem thee to be his enemy; that he may know that thy faithfulness is stronger than the cords of\u00a0death. \u00a0(Doctrine and Covenants 121:41-44)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n<ul>\n<li id=\"p15\" class=\"verse highlight\" data-aid=\"128396796\">\u00a0Excommunication is \u201cspiritual violence.\u201d<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">Again, I don\u2019t know exactly what this is supposed to mean, except that it\u2019s plainly designed to portray as evil those who advocate on behalf of the Church and the Restoration as the Church and Restoration have long been understood and taught.<\/p>\n<p data-aid=\"128385878\">Couldn\u2019t that be viewed as, itself, a form of \u201cspiritual violence\u201d and \u201cabuse\u201d? \u00a0It\u2019s certainly a case of attempted rhetorical manipulation. \u00a0However, I strongly prefer retaining the word <em>violence<\/em> for . . . well, you know, for actual cases of violence. \u00a0Excommunication isn\u2019t remotely comparable to the Nazi invasion of Poland in 1939, nor even to a brutal carjacking.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li data-aid=\"128385878\">\u00a0Excommunication is foreign to the beautiful, accepting, always-affirming message of the gentle Jesus.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>God is love. \u00a0Jesus is loving. \u00a0By this shall men know ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.<\/p>\n<p>Quite true.<\/p>\n<p>But let\u2019s not forget about the Jesus who carefully braided the whip and drove the moneychangers from the temple, who called the \u00a0Pharisees \u201cwhited sepulchers,\u201d who distinguished between \u201csheep\u201d and \u201cgoats,\u201d who spoke extensively of Hell, who warned\u00a0of \u201cfalse prophets\u201d who would appear \u201cin sheep\u2019s clothing\u201d while \u201cinwardly they are ravening wolves\u201d (Matthew 7:15).<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\u00a0The Church\u2019s message should always be \u201cCome unto Christ,\u201d never driving anybody away.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>That is its message, and it always has been. \u00a0But coming unto Christ means accepting him as lord and master, not as uncritical playmate and always-affirming pop psychologist: \u00a0He didn\u2019t say, \u201cI\u2019m OK, you\u2019re OK, and isn\u2019t it beautiful?\u201d \u00a0He said, \u201cIf ye love me, keep my commandments.\u201d \u00a0He commanded us to repent.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li>\u00a0The leaders of the Church have no authority to determine who gets to belong and who doesn\u2019t, no right to decide who fits and who doesn\u2019t fit in.<\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p>On the contrary, for believing members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, that is <em>precisely<\/em> their right and their authority and their responsibility. \u00a0The Kingdom isn\u2019t an open-ended debating society in which every doctrine is up for grabs, every commandment subject to focus groups and polling and negotiation, every policy a matter to be worked out by means of street demonstrations and town hall meetings but always subject to revision if even a single person objects.<\/p>\n<p>The Kingdom should, of course, always be led with compassion and love, and we can hope and pray and work to include as many within its boundaries as are willing to affiliate themselves with it on conditions of repentance. \u00a0But the Kingdom does have leaders, and it does have boundaries. \u00a0The Kingdom means something specific, and the very definition of <em>definition<\/em> is to set borders and limits \u2014 which is why the term is also used to refer to\u00a0the degree of distinctness in the outline of an object, an image, or a sound.<\/p>\n<p>Excommunication is one way in which those facts are made plain.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>For if the trumpet give an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself to the battle? \u00a0(1 Corinthians 14:8)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 Well, the click-bait headline worked, as they typically do. \u00a0Gotcha. First of all, let me make it plain that I\u2019m saddened by excommunications. \u00a0I don\u2019t, as one very small pod of my somewhat unhinged personal critics pretend to believe, rejoice when people are excommunicated. \u00a0More precisely, though, I\u2019m saddened by the acts of immorality, [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":18443,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[2493,2905,3139,788,10634,1366],"class_list":["post-108992","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-excommunication","tag-latter-day-saint","tag-love","tag-mormon","tag-physical","tag-resurrection"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Hurrah for Excommunication!<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"&nbsp; Well, the click-bait headline worked, as they typically do. \u00a0Gotcha. First of all, let me make it plain that I&#039;m saddened by excommunications. \u00a0I\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/02\/hurrah-for-excommunication-2.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Hurrah for Excommunication!\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"&nbsp; Well, the click-bait headline worked, as they typically do. \u00a0Gotcha. 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