{"id":110855,"date":"2025-06-24T20:05:01","date_gmt":"2025-06-25T02:05:01","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=110855"},"modified":"2025-06-24T20:05:01","modified_gmt":"2025-06-25T02:05:01","slug":"having-fun-with-two-ex-mormons-and-the-history-of-astronomy","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/06\/having-fun-with-two-ex-mormons-and-the-history-of-astronomy.html","title":{"rendered":"Having fun with two ex-Mormons and the history of astronomy"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_45513\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-45513\" style=\"width: 596px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2018\/01\/Bronnikov_gimnpifagoreizev.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-45513\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2018\/01\/Bronnikov_gimnpifagoreizev.jpg\" alt=\"Bronnikov's Pythagoreans\" width=\"596\" height=\"367\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-45513\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Fans of the former Interpreter Radio Show greet the Foundation\u2019s launch of a new podcast as the dawning of a brighter day. \u00a0(This 1869 painting, by Fyodor Bronnikov, is sometimes misidentified in conventional histories of art as \u201cPythagoreans Celebrating the Sunrise.\u201d Wikimedia Commons public domain image)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>After considerable discussion that began several months ago and grew more intense within recent weeks, we at the Interpreter Foundation have decided to move on from our long-running radio program and to turn, in its place, to a video and audio podcast. \u00a0Our inaugural effort, in two parts, can be accessed through the following links. \u00a0We appreciate constructive feedback, and we hope that you\u2019ll find these both enjoyable and useful:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreter-podcast-june-23-2025\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">The Interpreter Foundation Podcast \u2014 June 23, 2025<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>In the 23 June 2025 episode of The Interpreter Foundation Podcast, Martin Tanner and Hales Swift discuss the <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> Doctrine &amp; Covenants lesson for June 23 \u2013 June 29 and the 1886 John Taylor revelation that was recently released. \u00a0The Come, Follow Me segment of the episode is published separately. (See below.) The audio track is also included in our podcast feed (<a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/feeds\/podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/feeds\/podcast<\/a>).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreter-come-follow-me-podcast-doctrine-covenants-67-to-70-for-june-23-june-29\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Interpreter Foundation Come, Follow Me Podcast: June 23\u2013 June 29: \u201cWorth \u2026 the Riches of the Whole Earth\u201d Doctrine &amp; Covenants 67 to 70<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>In the 23 June 2025 <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> segment of the Interpreter Foundation Podcast, Martin Tanner and Hales Swift discuss the <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> Doctrine &amp; Covenants lesson for June 23 \u2013 June 29 covering D&amp;C 67 to 70.<\/p>\n<p>You can watch the Come, Follow Me segment of the June 23rd episode of the Interpreter Foundation Podcast via the link given immediately above. You can also listen to or download the audio recording. The audio recording will also be included in our podcast feed (<a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/feeds\/podcast\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/feeds\/podcast<\/a>). The Discussion segment of the 23 June 2025 radio show can be accessed at <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreter-podcast-june-23-2025\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreter-podcast-june-23-2025<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>The Interpreter Foundation Podcast is a weekly discussion of matters of interest to the hosts, guests, and callers of the show. The views expressed on the Interpreter Radio Show are those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Interpreter Foundation, nor should statements made on the show be construed as official doctrinal statements of the Church.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Moreover, two other new items were also posted today on the Interpreter Foundation\u2019s notoriously somnolent website:<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/nibley-lectures-come-follow-me-doctrine-and-covenants-lesson-27-2025-dc-71-75\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Nibley Lectures: <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> Doctrine and Covenants Lesson 27: <em>\u201cNo Weapon That Is Formed against You Shall Prosper\u201d <\/em>Doctrine and Covenants 71\u201375<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>During 1978, 1979, and 1980, Hugh Nibley taught a Doctrine and Covenants Sunday School class. Cassette recordings were made of these classes and some have survived and were digitized by Steve Whitlock and recently enhanced by Nick Galieti. Most of the tapes were in pretty bad condition. The original recordings usually don\u2019t stop or start at the beginning of the class and there is some background noise. Volumes vary, probably depending upon where the recorder was placed in the room. Many are very low volume but in most cases it\u2019s possible to understand the words. In a couple of cases the ends of one class were put on some space left over from a different class. There\u2019s some mixup around D&amp;C 90-100 that couldn\u2019t be figured out so those recordings are as they were on the tapes. Even with these flaws and missing classes, we believe these these will be interesting to listen to and valuable to your <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> study program.<\/p>\n<p>This week we have one lecture relevant to the June 30 \u2013 July 6 <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> lesson, \u201cNo Weapon That Is Formed against You Shall Prosper\u201d covering D&amp;C 71\u201375.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/cfm-study-and-teaching-helps-dc-2025-lesson-27\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> \u2014 D&amp;C Study and Teaching Helps (2025): Doctrine and Covenants 71\u201375: June 30 \u2013 July 6: \u201cNo Weapon That Is Formed against You Shall Prosper\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Once again, Jonn Claybaugh has provided a concise set of notes for students and teachers of the <em>Come, Follow Me<\/em> curriculum of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>As you can easily see from the items listed above, the Interpreter Foundation is <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/06\/from-jackson-county.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">absolutely obsessed with Brigham Young<\/a>. \u00a0In fact, we pay little or no attention to anything else!<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_25085\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-25085\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2015\/07\/800px-Admiring_the_Galaxy.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-25085\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2015\/07\/800px-Admiring_the_Galaxy.jpg\" alt=\"European Southern Observatory photo\" width=\"597\" height=\"398\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-25085\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Astronomer Alan Fitzsimmons takes a break between sessions at the La Silla Observatory in Chile to admire the Milky Way. \u00a0(Wikimedia Commons public domain image). \u00a0The Rubin telescope offers certain advantages over observation with the naked human eye.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>An exciting new scientific instrument has come online: \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.deseret.com\/u-s-world\/2025\/06\/24\/largest-digital-camera-photos-of-the-universe\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cWorld\u2019s largest digital camera captures stunning photos of the universe:\u00a0The Vera C. Rubin Observatory, located on a mountaintop in the Chilean Andes, released its first photos of the universe\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p>Here\u2019s a piece that\u2019s worth some consideration: \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.breakpoint.org\/the-moral-nightmare-of-losing-our-religion\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cThe Moral Nightmare of Losing Our Religion:\u00a0<span class=\"TextRun SCXW243530377 BCX4\" lang=\"EN-US\" xml:lang=\"EN-US\" data-contrast=\"auto\"><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW243530377 BCX4\">If nothing is evil, then murder, racism, abuse<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW243530377 BCX4\">, and everything<\/span> <span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW243530377 BCX4\">else <\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW243530377 BCX4\">is go<\/span><span class=\"NormalTextRun SCXW243530377 BCX4\">od!\u201d<\/span><\/span><\/a><\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_21661\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-21661\" style=\"width: 512px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2015\/06\/512px-%D0%A6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B6_%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8_%D1%85%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-21661\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2015\/06\/512px-%D0%A6%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%D0%B1%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B4%D0%B6_%D0%9C%D0%BB%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B3%D0%BE_%D0%BF%D1%83%D1%82%D0%B8_%D0%B3%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%B8_%D1%85%D1%83%D0%B4%D0%BE%D0%B6%D0%BD%D0%B8%D0%BA%D0%B0.jpg\" alt=\"Milky Way Galaxy painting\" width=\"512\" height=\"320\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-21661\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">An artist\u2019s conception of the Milky Way Galaxy as seen edge-on, from a distance<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>\u201cZwei Dinge,\u201d wrote the great German philosopher Immanuel Kant, \u201cerf\u00fcllen das Gem\u00fct mit immer neuer und zunehmender Bewunderung und Ehrfurcht, je \u00f6fter und anhaltender sich das Nachdenken damit besch\u00e4ftigt: der gestirnte Himmel \u00fcber mir und das moralische Gesetz in mir.\u201d \u00a0\u201cTwo things fill the mind with ever new and increasing admiration and reverence, the more often and the more steadily reflection is occupied with them: the starry heaven above me and the moral law within me.\u201d<\/p>\n<p>The passage comes from the conclusion of his 1788 <i lang=\"de\">Kritik der praktischen Vernunft <\/i>(the\u00a0<em class=\"eujQNb\" data-complete=\"true\" data-processed=\"true\">Critique of Practical Reason<\/em>), one of Kant\u2019s most important works, which focused on one of his central interests, moral philosophy. \u00a0And, unsurprisingly, most of those who cite the passage proceed thereupon to discuss Kant as a moral philosopher. \u00a0But he also paid serious attention to astronomy; he wasn\u2019t merely writing an eloquent sentence with a nice parallelism between the deliverances of the conscience and the objective reality of the night sky.<\/p>\n<p>Immanuel Kant did far more than merely passively admire the heavens: \u00a0He made several notable contributions to astronomy and cosmology before coming to concentrate on philosophy. In the 1750s, Kant read a review in a German journal of a book by Thomas Wright, An<em> Original Theory or New Hypothesis of the Universe<\/em> (1750). The reviewer said that Wright asserted that the Milky Way was a clue to the distribution of stars in space. \u00a0This idea evidently caught Kant\u2019s attention, and he soon concluded that, since we often see a clear and distinct band of stars across the heavens \u2014 the Milky Way \u2014 it must be because our star system is shaped like a broad thin disk and because we are looking at it edgewise \u00a0In other words, Kant proposed not only the existence of our galaxy, but its proper shape.<\/p>\n<p>Kant announced his conclusion in a 1755 book entitled <em>Allgemeine Naturgeschichte und Theorie des Himmels<\/em> (<em>A Universal Natural History and Theory of the Heavens<\/em>). \u00a0In this book, he also suggested that some of the lens-shaped nebulae in the sky, such as the nebula in Andromeda, might be galaxies of stars just like our own Milky Way galaxy. However, Kant\u2019s innovative ideas remained unnoticed for a long time. His publisher went bankrupt just as the book was printed; copies were confiscated by the courts and most of them disappeared. Even later printings of the book are very rare (and, accordingly, quite valuable).<\/p>\n<p>The existence of separate galaxies was only<span data-huuid=\"12601266196555465637\"> definitively recognized in the early 1920s, after considerable debate, primarily through the work of Edwin Hubble. \u00a0Before this, the theorizing of Immanuel Kant notwithstanding, <\/span><span data-huuid=\"12601266196555465242\">many astronomers believed that the universe consisted only of our Milky Way galaxy. \u00a0The so-called \u201cspiral nebulae\u201d were thought to be nothing more than clouds within it. \u00a0<\/span>Hubble\u2019s 1923 observations of Cepheid variable stars in the Andromeda \u201cnebula\u201d \u2014 which, of course, we now recognize as a galaxy in its own right \u2014 proved that these nebulae were actually distant, separate galaxies, and vastly larger than anybody had previously imagined.<span class=\"pjBG2e\" data-cid=\"33911029-d163-4684-8a0f-1aaaad2f6695\"><span class=\"UV3uM\">\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Over thirty years ago now \u2014 sigh! \u2014 my late, gifted, and much lamented friend Bill Hamblin and I used the publication history of Br\u2019er Kant\u2019s astronomical book to have some good, clean fun at the expense of a pair of critics of the Restoration. \u00a0These are Bill\u2019s words:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Going a step further, they seem to maintain that Joseph may have had a predilection for reading Kant in the original German. \u201cImmanuel Kant claimed that the moral perfection of each planet\u2019s inhabitants increased \u201caccording to the proportion of [its] distance from the sun.\u2019 Certainly in such an intellectual climate, Joseph Smith\u2019s ideas about pluralism and astronomical hierarchy were not unusual.\u201d \u00a0The passage they cite as illustrative of Joseph\u2019s \u201cintellectual climate\u201d is from Kant\u2019s 1755 work,\u00a0<em>Allgemeine Naturgeschichte und Theorie des Himmels, oder Versuch von der Verfassung und dem mechanischen Ursprunge des ganzen Weltgeb\u00e4udes nach Newtonischen Grunds\u00e4tzen abgehandelt<\/em>. But their choice of a work to illustrate Joseph\u2019s \u201cintellectual climate\u201d is particularly unfortunate. \u201cThe book\u2019s publisher . . . went bankrupt just at the time Kant\u2019s work was to have been published. His stock was impounded, and as a result copies of the book were for a long time simply unavailable.\u201d Even after being reprinted, \u201clike some other memorable cases of books that came \u201cstillborn from the press,\u2019 Kant\u2019s [work] . . . was virtually unknown in its own day; indeed, it had to wait for more than a century [i.e., until after 1855] for its true greatness to be appreciated.\u201d For example, \u201cIn England, Herschel [1738-1822, a native German living in England, and the greatest astronomer of his day], for all his ties with Hannover, did not learn about Kant\u2019s cosmology.\u201d The work was first translated into English in 1900, nearly six decades after Joseph Smith\u2019s death.<\/p>\n<p>Vogel and Metcalfe\u2019s argument that Kant\u2019s work was somehow part of the \u201cintellectual climate\u201d of early nineteenth-century frontier New York is laughable, and is perhaps the most patently absurd of the many environmentalist claims which I have read. I can just imagine the sturdy country yeomen of the Palmyra region gathering in a local tavern for their weekly discussions of the \u201ccategorical imperative\u201d over a tankard of ale. Meanwhile, they spend their free moments between milking the cows, splitting rails, and plowing, in brushing up on their philosophical German so they can devour the latest of Kant\u2019s untranslated works late at night by candlelight. It seems to me that Metcalfe will go to absurd lengths to find the most obscure possible parallels between Joseph and his environment in order to undermine the antiquity of the Book of Mormon. \u00a0[William J. Hamblin, \u201cAn Apologist for the Critics: Brent Lee Metcalfe\u2019s Assumptions and Methodologies,\u201d\u00a0Review of Brent Lee Metcalfe, \u201cApologetic and Critical Assumptions about Book of Mormon Historicity,\u201d <em>Dialogue<\/em> 26\/3 (Fall 1993): 154-84, in <em>FARMS Review<\/em> 6 (1994): 434-523.]<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 After considerable discussion that began several months ago and grew more intense within recent weeks, we at the Interpreter Foundation have decided to move on from our long-running radio program and to turn, in its place, to a video and audio podcast. \u00a0Our inaugural effort, in two parts, can be accessed through the following [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":45513,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[344,71,31390,11410,38888,38891],"class_list":["post-110855","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-astronomy","tag-cosmology","tag-kant","tag-moral-law","tag-starry-heaven","tag-vera-c-rubin-observatory"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Having fun with two ex-Mormons and the history of astronomy<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"&nbsp; 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