{"id":111116,"date":"2025-07-16T13:59:40","date_gmt":"2025-07-16T19:59:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=111116"},"modified":"2025-07-16T15:04:45","modified_gmt":"2025-07-16T21:04:45","slug":"dang-it-we-ran-out-of-time","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/07\/dang-it-we-ran-out-of-time.html","title":{"rendered":"Dang it, we ran out of time"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_111119\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-111119\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2025\/07\/Old_Faithful_Geyser_from_Observation_Point_48793693053.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-111119\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2025\/07\/Old_Faithful_Geyser_from_Observation_Point_48793693053.jpg\" alt=\"Old Faithful lksdjflslfjlsjmds\" width=\"597\" height=\"398\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-111119\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wikimedia Commons public domain image of Old Faithful Geyser in Yellowstone National Park. I came from California with my parents to visit Old Faithful from California when I was a very little boy. It\u2019s one of my earliest memories. I\u2019ve come many times since, though still not often enough. \u00a0We\u2019ll have to come at least once more, with progeny in tow.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>So near and yet so far. \u00a0We didn\u2019t have enough minutes to do Yellowstone even approximate justice today; this has been, for at least two of us, a working vacation, one of whom has fixed hours of employment geared to a different time zone. \u00a0So the eventual choice today wasn\u2019t to go into the National Park but to take the grandchild who is with us here to the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.grizzlydiscoveryctr.org\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Grizzly and Wolf Discovery Center<\/a> right near our lodging. \u00a0It was a real hit with the Third-Generation Unit. \u00a0(I obscure the gender so as to render him\/her\/it a more difficult target for the tender mercies of my obsessive anonymous internet critics; to choose an example of past behavior, one of them, a still-active stalker, once found my then-very-young son\u2019s Christmas wishlist on an online site and used its contents to frame an attack on my parenting.) \u00a0Now, though, we have an excuse to come back to Yellowstone.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_39541\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-39541\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/02\/Berkeley_glade_afternoon.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-39541\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/02\/Berkeley_glade_afternoon.jpg\" alt=\"UC Berkeley campus, with Sather Tower\" width=\"597\" height=\"448\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-39541\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">On the campus at the University of California at Berkeley, where Dr. Elizabeth Lloyd Meyer taught until her unexpected death. \u00a0(Wikimedia Commons public domain photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>I\u2019ve shared some material here in the past from Elizabeth Lloyd Mayer\u2019s posthumously-published 2008 book <em><span id=\"productTitle\" class=\"a-size-extra-large celwidget\" data-csa-c-id=\"j0xse4-o46z2-j222dq-uckfmb\" data-cel-widget=\"productTitle\">Extraordinary Knowing: Science, Skepticism, and the Inexplicable Powers of the Human <\/span><\/em><span id=\"productTitle\" class=\"a-size-extra-large celwidget\" data-csa-c-id=\"j0xse4-o46z2-j222dq-uckfmb\" data-cel-widget=\"productTitle\"><em>Mind<\/em>, which impressed me very much. \u00a0To refresh memories, I share the biography for her that appears at the end of the book:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Known as Lisby by her many friends and colleagues, Elizabeth Lloyd Mayer was an internationally known psychoanalyst, researcher, and clinician, the author of groundbreaking papers on female development, clinical technique, the nature of science, and intuition. A graduate of Radcliffe College, she received her doctorate from Stanford University and graduated from the San Francisco Psychoanalytic Institute, where she later became a training and supervising analyst. She was associate clinical professor of psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, and in the psychiatry department at the University of California Medical Center, San Francisco. She was also a fellow of the International Consciousness Research Laboratories at Princeton and on the research faculty of the Institute for Health and Healing at California Pacific Medical Center. She maintained a private practice in Berkeley for thirty years. Dr. Mayer served on the editorial boards of many of the major journals in her field, including the <em>Journal of the American Psychoanalytic Association<\/em>, <em>International Journal of Psychoanalysis<\/em>, <em>Gender and Psychoanalysis<\/em>, <em>The Psychoanalytic Quarterly<\/em>, and <em>Contemporary Psychoanalysis<\/em>. She was the first winner of the American Psychoanalytic Association\u2019s prestigious Menninger Award. A contralto with a long-standing interest in traditional folk and classical music, she was a founder of the California Revels and its artistic director for many years. The mother of two daughters, she was also the producer of an award-winning video series on music education for children and was named Alameda County\u2019s Woman of the Year for Arts and Culture in 1995. Dr. Mayer died on New Year\u2019s Day, 2005, shortly after completing <em>Extraordinary Knowing<\/em>. \u00a0(263)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>I\u2019ll be on the road for pretty much the rest of the day, heading home, so here are today\u2019s passages:<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<div class=\"noteText\">I claim that paranormal phenomena may really exist. . . . \u00a0The hypothesis that paranormal phenomena are real but lie outside the limits of science is supported by a great mass of evidence. . . . \u00a0I find it plausible that a world of mental phenomena should exist, too fluid and evanescent to be grasped with the cumbersome tools of science. . . . \u00a0One of my grandmothers was a notorious and successful faith healer. One of my cousins was for many years the editor of the <em>Journal of the Society for Psychical Research<\/em>. Both these ladies were well educated, highly intelligent, and fervent believers in paranormal phenomena. They may have been deluded, but neither of them was a fool. Their beliefs were based on personal experience and careful scrutiny of evidence. Nothing that they believed was incompatible with science. Whether paranormal phenomena exist or not, the evidence for their existence is corrupted by a vast amount of nonsense and outright fraud. Before we can begin to evaluate the evidence, we must get rid of the hucksters and charlatans who have turned unsolved mysteries into a profitable business. (238)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<p>Clearly, Professor Mayer herself was not obviously and na\u00efvely gullible. \u00a0But, as she puts it, \u201cI had to doubt my existing models of reality or I had to doubt myself\u201d (214). \u00a0In the \u201cEpilogue\u201d to <em>Extraordinary Knowing<\/em>, she refers back to the surprising personal story with which her book opens (and which I very briefly summarized <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/02\/finding-a-lost-harp.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">here<\/a>):<\/p>\n<blockquote>\n<div class=\"noteText\">It\u2019s been fifteen years since my daughter\u2019s harp came back. I\u2019ve opened the door to questions about reality that shake the foundations of the world as I\u2019ve known it. The real cost of the journey has been to give up one variety of certainty. This means the loss of a familiar world that plays by the rules, in which cause leads reliably to effects we can specify, rationality triumphs in predictable ways, and we have some sense that we can gain control over our experience. Worse, the world opening up to me is too often inhabited by ideas I deeply mistrust and people who swallow every New Age fad, people whose credulity horrifies me. (263)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div class=\"noteText\">Here is the first of a couple of examples that I\u2019ll pass on from among the many that she cites and describes:<\/div>\n<div>\n<blockquote>\n<div class=\"noteText\">Under highly controlled, double-blind conditions, these experiments suggest that human beings have a nervous system wired to perceive events three to five seconds into the future.<\/div>\n<div class=\"noteText\">Reacting in advance to a loud noise? To a calming versus emotionally stimulating picture? Seeing three seconds into the future, maybe five? Such a response may not seem like much. But if it\u2019s true, it changes everything. (229)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div>And here is the second:<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote>\n<div class=\"noteText\">Consider, for example, experiments testing what are known as Bell\u2019s theorem and the EPR (Einstein-Podolsky-Rosen) paradox. These experiments have definitively demonstrated that, under certain conditions, particles that have been in close association with each other as a two-particle system will defy familiar constraints of time and space in relation to each other. They\u2019ll each instantly compensate for a change in the state of the other, no matter how distant they happen to be and without any identifiable channel for communication between them. \u00a0This quantum physics equivalent of human entrainment is called entanglement. In \u201cEntanglement: The Weirdest Link,\u201d scientist reporter Michael Brooks discusses the latest developments concerning what Einstein once dubbed <em>spukhafte Fernwirkungen<\/em>, \u201cspooky action at a distance.\u201d Thomas Durt of Vrije University in Brussels also believes entanglement is everywhere. He has recently shown, from the basic equations that Schr\u00f6dinger considered, that almost all quantum interactions produce entanglement, whatever the conditions. \u201cWhen you see light coming from a faraway star, the photon is almost certainly entangled with the atoms of the star and the atoms encountered along the way,\u201d he says. And the constant interactions between electrons in the atoms that make up your body are no exception. According to Durt, we are a mass of entanglements. (257)<\/div>\n<\/blockquote>\n<div>\n<figure id=\"attachment_39581\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-39581\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/02\/Yaxchilan_1.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-39581\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/02\/Yaxchilan_1.jpg\" alt=\"I've been there.\" width=\"597\" height=\"448\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-39581\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">A scene in the ancient Maya city of Yaxchilan, located beside the Usumacinta River in what is today the Mexican state of Chiapas \u00a0(Wikimedia Commons public domain photo)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<\/div>\n<div>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Elsewhere on the web, my claim here (in a comment responding to a comment) that the development of limited geographical models for the Book of Mormon was primarily driven by close reading of the book\u2019s text is being mocked. \u00a0I said that panicked recognition of a lack of archaeological and DNA evidence for a hemispheric model wasn\u2019t a motivator.\u00a0 It was, one of the mockers says, just pure <em>coincidence<\/em> that such models were developed. \u00a0The lack of evidence wasn\u2019t a factor at <em>all<\/em>.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Well, I stand corrected.\u00a0 Crick and Watson arrived at their double helix model for DNA in February of 1953, and the study of DNA took off thereafter.\u00a0 Within mere <em>decades<\/em> of February 1953, DNA analysis began to be applied to the Pre-Columbian Americas.<\/p>\n<p style=\"font-weight: 400;\">Which \u2013 coupled with a remarkable display of clairvoyance \u2014 explains why John Sorenson was down in Chiapas, in the very south of Mexico, on a dig with BYU\u2019s New World Archaeological Foundation that began in January 1953.\u00a0 The DNA data from decades later that would ultimately force creation of a limited Tehuantepec model <em>drove<\/em> him to it. \u00a0Obviously. \u00a0Only small minds believe that historical causation works in just one direction. \u00a0Sophisticated minds, at least when they badly need to do so, can believe that the Second World War was one of the causes of the Versailles Treaty and that Reconstruction caused the American Civil War.<\/p>\n<p>And, of course, the origins of the limited-geographical Mesoamerican model for the Book of Mormon go back well before John Sorenson (who, however, remains its best-known advocate) to people like M. Wells Jakeman and, before him, to Janne M. Sj\u00f6dahl at the start of the 1920s and, if we cast the net a bit further, to Louis Edward Hills (a member of what was then known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints) in about 1917 \u2014 which makes the cause-and-effect relationship between post-1953 DNA discoveries and the idea of a limited geography even <em>more<\/em> remarkable. \u00a0(For an extended discussion of the subject, see Matthew Roper, \u201cLimited Geography and the Book of Mormon: Historical Antecedents and Early Interpretations,\u201d <em>The FARMS Review<\/em> 16\/2 (2004): 225-275.)<\/p>\n<p>And yes, it\u2019s true that Latter-day Saint scholars seeking to identify a geographical setting for the Book of Mormon have tended to go where they reasoned that relevant evidence would be found rather than to places where they had decided that it <em>wouldn\u2019t<\/em> be found. \u00a0Is that really surprising? \u00a0Researchers looking for genetic links to cancer don\u2019t typically focus first on the Huntington Library\u2019s holdings of Western Americana. \u00a0Historians looking for the causes of the decline and fall of the Roman Empire probably don\u2019t start their work with a census of elk herds in the Canadian Rockies. \u00a0Similarly, those looking for evidence of the large cities described in the Book of Mormon for the Pre-Classic period are likely to search first in places where large cities were built in the Americas during the Pre-Classic period.<\/p>\n<p>Another critic demands, with a straight face, that believers in the Book of Mormon prove it authentically ancient prior to trying to figure out where its narrative might have occurred and, therefore, prior to looking for supporting evidence in that location. \u00a0Otherwise, he says, with every appearance of being serious, we\u2019re putting the cart before the horse. \u00a0Oy veh.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"noteText\" style=\"text-align: right;\">Posted from West Yellowstone, Montana<\/div>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 So near and yet so far. \u00a0We didn\u2019t have enough minutes to do Yellowstone even approximate justice today; this has been, for at least two of us, a working vacation, one of whom has fixed hours of employment geared to a different time zone. \u00a0So the eventual choice today wasn\u2019t to go into the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":111119,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[56,28190,28214,28211,2058,28217],"class_list":["post-111116","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-book-of-mormon","tag-elizabeth-lloyd-mayer","tag-esp","tag-extraordinary-knowing","tag-geography","tag-psi"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Dang it, we ran out of time<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"&nbsp; So near and yet so far. \u00a0We didn&#039;t have enough minutes to do Yellowstone even approximate justice today; 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