{"id":113171,"date":"2025-10-08T18:55:39","date_gmt":"2025-10-09T00:55:39","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=113171"},"modified":"2025-10-09T13:55:46","modified_gmt":"2025-10-09T19:55:46","slug":"getting-it-wrong-again","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/10\/getting-it-wrong-again.html","title":{"rendered":"Getting It Wrong.  Again."},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_113174\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-113174\" style=\"width: 500px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2025\/10\/MassasoitStatueBYU.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-113174\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2025\/10\/MassasoitStatueBYU.jpg\" alt=\"BYU's sachem sldkfasalkfamsl\" width=\"500\" height=\"638\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-113174\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Chief Massasoit, at Brigham Young University (Wikimedia Commons public domain photograph)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>A pseudonymous online critic has launched an attack against my supposed view that irreligious people cannot be moral \u2014 a view that is obviously false and that I do not hold. \u00a0He also suggests that, in my opinion, people only rein in their impulses and restrain their actions because they\u2019re terrified of the wrath of God, and that I think that, if I were ever to cease to believe in God as a kind of crutch for morality, I would likely embark on a rampage of immorality and become another Jeffrey Dahmer.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019ve explained myself on these matters and specifically refuted such caricatures on numerous prior occasions, and I\u2019ll almost certainly do so again when and where I think it appropriate. \u00a0But not now. \u00a0I don\u2019t believe that it would help this critic and his small but astoundingly gullible audience. \u00a0I don\u2019t see any evidence that they really <em>care<\/em> to understand what I\u2019ve said on this topic. \u00a0And, in the words of Murphy\u2019s Second Corollary, which I recently quoted here in an analogous case, \u00a0<em>It is impossible to make anything foolproof because fools are so ingenious.<\/em><\/p>\n<p>But I do want to correct a historical error: \u00a0In support of his assertion that, contrary to my alleged view, irreligious people <em>can<\/em> be moral, my pseudonymous online critic cites a comment from one of the Pilgrims at Plymouth Plantation, Edward Winslow, about the indigenous Pokanoket (or Pakanokick, or Pauquunaukit) people of southern New England. \u00a0In a letter dated 11 December 1621, Winslow wrote that<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>They are a people without any religion, or knowledge of any God, yet very trusty, quick of apprehension, ripe-witted, just, the men and women go naked, only a skin about their middles . . .<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>It must be pointed out, though, that Mr. Winslow was a zealous Christian Separatist who was born in 1595, and that, <em>mutatis mutandis<\/em>, his attitude toward other faiths was probably closer to that of Henry Fielding\u2019s fictional Parson Thwackum than to that of a modern field anthropologist or a twenty-first-century scholar of comparative religions. \u00a0Said Parson Thwackum:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>When I mention religion I mean the Christian religion; and not only the Christian religion, but the Protestant religion; and not only the Protestant religion, but the Church of England. \u00a0(from Henry Fielding, <em class=\"eujQNb\" data-processed=\"true\">The History of Tom Jones, a Foundling<\/em>)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>It was unwise for my critic to rely so na\u00efvely upon Edward Winslow\u2019s account of Pokanoket spirituality (or the lack thereof). \u00a0I would be surprised if Mr. Winslow had even a rudimentary knowledge of the language of the Pauquunaukit. \u00a0How much did he understand about Pokanoket spirituality? \u00a0Probably little or nothing.<\/p>\n<p>So, out of curiosity, I did a very quick online search regarding the Pokanoket people, a powerful Wampanoag group who, during the critical period of their interaction with the Pilgrims, were led by a chief named Massasoit.<\/p>\n<p>An aside: Those who are familiar with the campus of Brigham Young University will recall the statue of Massasoit that is prominently placed directly west of the University\u2019s Harold B. Lee Library. \u00a0The sculptor was Cyrus Dallin, who also created the statue of the Angel Moroni that stands atop the Salt Lake Temple. \u00a0(President Dallin H. Oaks\u2019s first name was given to him in honor of Cyrus Dallin by his mother, Stella, for whom she had once served as a model.)<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_38266\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-38266\" style=\"width: 596px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2016\/11\/Brooklyn_Museum_-_Embarkation_of_the_Pilgrims_-_Robert_Walter_Weir_-_overall.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-38266\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2016\/11\/Brooklyn_Museum_-_Embarkation_of_the_Pilgrims_-_Robert_Walter_Weir_-_overall.jpg\" alt=\"Weir's Pilgrims\" width=\"596\" height=\"396\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-38266\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Robert Walter Weir (1803-1809), \u201cThe Embarkation of the Pilgrims\u201d<br>(Brooklyn Museum, public domain)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>So, is it true that the Pokanoket were wholly without a religion? \u00a0Unsurprisingly, No, it is not.<\/p>\n<p>Pokanoket spirituality, I found, was (and, to some extent, still is) rooted in a reverence for the Creator, Mother Earth, and the spirit world, in a cosmology that emphasizes interconnectedness, balance, and gratitude for all of creation.<\/p>\n<p>For the Pokanoket, the Creator, the source of all life, is the Supreme Being. \u00a0But everything \u2014 both plants and animals, as well as the land itself \u2014 is inhabited by spirits. \u00a0(<span class=\"T286Pc\" data-sfc-cp=\"\" data-processed=\"true\"> To illustrate, a Pokanoket seeking to make a canoe would thank the spirit of a tree before cutting it down.) \u00a0<\/span>Among these, <span class=\"T286Pc\" data-sfc-cp=\"\" data-processed=\"true\">Mother Earth is regarded with special reverence. \u00a0She is a divine entity who is particularly concerned with birth and rebirth. Living in peace and in harmony with her is central to their beliefs, and she should always be respected.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"T286Pc\" data-sfc-cp=\"\" data-processed=\"true\">In some accounts of Pokanoket religion, a figure known as Hobbamock serves as an intermediary between the people and the Creator God. \u00a0He is seen as a problem-solver for times when things are out of balance with Mother Earth.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>Pokanoket spirituality values certain particular locations \u2014 e.g., three sacred mountains, including Potumtuk, which was known to the colonists as Mount Hope \u2014 as places of unique spiritual significance where rituals and ceremonies (including prayers, thanksgivings, and the veneration of ancestors) were carried out. \u00a0(Potumtuk continues to be venerated among the Pokanoket even today.) \u00a0The religion of the Pokanoket also appears in the ceremonial reinterment of ancestors, which is designed to honor them.<\/p>\n<p>Gratitude is central to Pokanoket spirituality, expressed not only in annual ceremonies pegged to the lunar year but in ceremonies for the seasonal harvests (of, for example, strawberries and cranberries). \u00a0Prayers, sometimes accompanied by a ceremonial offering of tobacco, begin and end with thanks to the Creator and to Mother Earth.<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"T286Pc\" data-sfc-cp=\"\" data-processed=\"true\">Spiritual leaders called <em class=\"eujQNb\" data-processed=\"true\">powwas<\/em> played a central role in the Pokanoket community, presiding over councils \u2014 rather theocratically, it must be said, and especially so for a people allegedly lacking any religion! \u2014 with the <em>sachems<\/em> (political leaders or chiefs) and the <em>sagamores<\/em> (subordinate chiefs) to make decisions. \u00a0To this very day, the Pokanoket Nation has a spiritual leader who is known as the <em class=\"eujQNb\" data-processed=\"true\">Powwas.<\/em><\/span><\/p>\n<div class=\"mZJni Dn7Fzd\" dir=\"ltr\" data-container-id=\"main-col\" data-xid=\"VpUvz\" data-ved=\"2ahUKEwihzdyQ_5SQAxWyIkQIHRIKIEoQ3KYQegQIABAB\" data-processed=\"true\">\n<div data-container-id=\"5\" data-processed=\"true\">\n<div class=\"Y3BBE\" data-sfc-cp=\"\" data-hveid=\"CAEQAA\" data-processed=\"true\">\n<p>Edward Winslow probably wouldn\u2019t have recognized any of this as a real religion. \u00a0After all, it scarcely resembled his own Protestant Christianity. \u00a0It bore little similarity to Calvin\u2019s <em>Institutes<\/em>. \u00a0But he very likely didn\u2019t even <em>know<\/em> about it.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>So my critic mocks me for views that I don\u2019t hold, and he supports his mockery by deploying as his weapon a gross historical falsehood. \u00a0Which is pretty much par for the course at the place where he holds forth. \u00a0And then, by the way, another member of the choir there cites an evolutionary explanation of the origins of morality that, he apparently feels, is superior to <em>my<\/em> position \u2014 to which it isn\u2019t even germane. \u00a0Most impressive.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_42635\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-42635\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/06\/Va_State_Capitol.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-42635\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/06\/Va_State_Capitol.jpg\" alt=\"Virginia's capitol building\" width=\"597\" height=\"448\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-42635\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">The Virginia State Capitol, shown here in 2003, was designed by Thomas Jefferson.<br>(Wikimedia Commons public domain image)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>I don\u2019t know whether any of you are aware of the remarkable recent controversy involving the Democratic nominee to be the next attorney general of the Commonwealth of Virginia. \u00a0If not, and if you can access it, this article in <em>National Review<\/em> (where the precipitating story broke) should bring you up to speed: \u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.nationalreview.com\/carnival-of-fools\/jay-joness-texts-are-a-frightening-peek-into-a-bleak-moral-worldview\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cJay Jones\u2019s Texts Are a Frightening Peek into a Bleak Moral Worldview\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p>I can\u2019t help being reminded of a saying attributed to the late Mongolian statesman Mr.\u00a0Genghis Khan, who might have made an excellent Democratic candidate for statewide office in Virginia had he met the residency requirements and lived in the right century.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>\u201cThe greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p style=\"text-align: right;\">Posted from Newport Beach, California<\/p>\n<div class=\"pWvJNd\" data-processed=\"true\">\n<div class=\"AtG8Cb wtjSqe ggfide D8wisd iB4sTd TN5urf\" data-sfc-cp=\"\" data-processed=\"true\">\n<div data-container-id=\"10\" data-processed=\"true\"><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 A pseudonymous online critic has launched an attack against my supposed view that irreligious people cannot be moral \u2014 a view that is obviously false and that I do not hold. \u00a0He also suggests that, in my opinion, people only rein in their impulses and restrain their actions because they\u2019re terrified of the wrath [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":113174,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[39242,21150,39239,39236,39233,3589],"class_list":["post-113171","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-cyrus-dallin","tag-dallin-h-oaks","tag-jay-jones","tag-massasoit","tag-pokanoket","tag-virginia"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Getting It Wrong. 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