{"id":113927,"date":"2025-12-05T13:43:14","date_gmt":"2025-12-05T20:43:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=113927"},"modified":"2025-12-05T13:45:32","modified_gmt":"2025-12-05T20:45:32","slug":"113927","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2025\/12\/113927.html","title":{"rendered":"The Messiah, the Gentiles, and the Old Testament"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_64563\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-64563\" style=\"width: 378px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2018\/08\/Barsch_The_ascension_of_isaiah.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-64563\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2018\/08\/Barsch_The_ascension_of_isaiah.jpg\" alt=\"Barsch, Wulf. Painting.\" width=\"378\" height=\"600\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-64563\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Wulf Barsch, \u201cThe Ascension of Isaiah\u201d<br>(I have been unable to find copyright information regarding this image of a work by a prominent contemporary LDS artist whom I admire, so, if anybody who holds copyright on it wishes to contact me, that would please me and put my mind at ease.)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>A new article went up today in <em>Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship<\/em>, representing the Foundation\u2019s 698th consecutive Friday of publishing a journal article. \u00a0(The Foundation was launched 699.5 weeks ago.) \u00a0The new article is\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/journal\/upon-all-the-nations-the-goyim-in-nephis-rendition-of-isaiah-2-2-nephi-12-in-literary-context\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201c\u201cUpon All the Nations\u201d: The <em>g\u00f4yim<\/em> in Nephi\u2019s Rendition of Isaiah 2 (2 Nephi 12) in Literary Context,\u201d<\/a> written by <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/all\/author\/matthewb\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Matthew L. Bowen<\/a>:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Abstract: One of the most notable features of Nephi\u2019s small plates rendition of Isaiah chapter 2 (2 Nephi 12) is the prominent expansion of the <em>nations<\/em> theme with two additional clauses with the word <em>nations<\/em> (Hebrew <em>g\u00f4yim<\/em>) that are not found in the Masoretic text (from which the KJV has been translated). Nephi\u2019s text preserves the use of <em>nations<\/em> from Isaiah 2:2, 4 in 2 Nephi 12:2, 4, but also attests significant additional references to the nations in 2 Nephi 12:12, 14: \u201cFor the day of the Lord of Hosts soon cometh upon all nations, yea, upon every one . . .\u00a0 and upon all the nations which are lifted up, and upon every people.\u201d These variants are consistent with\u2014and may even be explained by\u2014Nephi\u2019s declaration of intent in 2 Nephi 25:3: \u201cWherefore, I write unto my people, unto all those that shall receive hereafter these things, which I write, that they may know the judgments of God, that they come upon all nations, according to the word which he hath spoken\u201d (2 Nephi 25:3). This purpose in writing might explain additional textual variants in 2 Nephi 12\u201324 that pertain to coming judgments upon the nations, which is a dominant theme of the writings of Isaiah, which Nephi incorporated into this part of his record.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Professor Bowen\u2019s article is accompanied on the Interpreter webpage by <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreting-interpreter-nephi-and-the-nations\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cInterpreting <em>Interpreter<\/em>: Nephi and the Nations,\u201d<\/a> which was written by <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/all\/author\/kylerr\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Kyler Rasmussen<\/a>:<\/p>\n<div>\n<blockquote><p>This post is a summary of the article \u201c<a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/journal\/upon-all-the-nations-the-goyim-in-nephis-rendition-of-isaiah-2-2-nephi-12-in-literary-context\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">\u201cUpon All the Nations\u201d: The g\u00f4yim in Nephi\u2019s Rendition of Isaiah 2 (2 Nephi 12) in Literary Context<\/a>\u201d by Matthew L. Bowen in Volume 67 of <em>Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship<\/em>. All of the Interpreting <em>Interpreter<\/em> articles may be seen at <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/category\/summaries\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/category\/summaries\/<\/a>. An introduction to the Interpreting <em>Interpreter<\/em> series is available at <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreting-interpreter-on-abstracting-thought\/\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">https:\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreting-interpreter-on-abstracting-thought\/<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p>A video introduction to this Interpreter article is now available on all of our social media channels, including on YouTube at <a href=\"https:\/\/youtube.com\/shorts\/rUoWbBFBhcI\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\" class=\" decorated-link\">https:\/\/youtube.com\/shorts\/rUoWbBFBhcI<\/a>.<\/p>\n<p><strong>The Takeaway:<\/strong> Bowen examines the Isaiah chapters in 2 Nephi, proposing that Nephi may have chosen and shaped those chapters as a way of promoting an expansive view of God\u2019s relationship with the Gentile nations, working to prepare them for and help them avoid the judgments prophesied to befall them.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<\/div>\n<figure id=\"attachment_18539\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-18539\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2015\/03\/800px-Acer_aspire_4930G.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-18539\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2015\/03\/800px-Acer_aspire_4930G.jpg\" alt=\"Laptop computer\" width=\"597\" height=\"448\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-18539\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">It is widely believed among some observers that accessing the Interpreter Foundation Podcast will likely prove, speaking historically, to have been the major purpose of the personal computer. (Wikimedia Commons public domain photograph)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>In the 4 December 2025 episode of the Interpreter Foundation Podcast, Martin Tanner discussed finding the Messiah in the Old Testament: <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/interpreter-podcast-december-4-2025\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cThe Interpreter Foundation Podcast \u2014 December 4, 2025: Finding the Messiah in the Old Testament\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p>By the way, as we proceed through the month of December \u2014 which, in the United States, is the most important month for charitable giving \u2014 I hope that you\u2019ll consider giving at least <a href=\"https:\/\/interpreterfoundation.org\/foundation\/donate\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">a small contribution to the Interpreter Foundation<\/a>.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_90608\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-90608\" style=\"width: 596px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2021\/03\/Vincenzo_Camuccini_The_Death_of_Julius_Caesar_detail.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-90608\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2021\/03\/Vincenzo_Camuccini_The_Death_of_Julius_Caesar_detail.jpg\" alt=\"Caesar's assassination\" width=\"596\" height=\"506\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-90608\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Vincenzo Camuccini, \u201cThe Death of Julius Caesar\u201d (Wikimedia Commons public domain image)<br>For the record: I wasn\u2019t involved in this particular crime.<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Some Roman tombs evidently bear the inscription <em>NFFNSNC<\/em>. \u00a0You might be pardoned for imagining that <em>NFFNSNC <\/em>is\u00a0the ancient equivalent of the QAnon motto <em>WWG1WGA<\/em>, but it isn\u2019t.\u00a0 Rather, it stands for the Latin phrase <em>Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo<\/em>, which means \u201cI was not, I was, I am not, I do not care.\u201d The point, derived from Epicureanism, is that the deceased individual whose tomb it is didn\u2019t exist prior to birth (which didn\u2019t matter to him, he being nonexistent) and that he doesn\u2019t exist after death (which doesn\u2019t matter to him, since he doesn\u2019t exist). \u00a0There is no eternal reward, but there is also no eternal punishment, so the faithful Epicurean can accept life and death with complete equanimity.<\/p>\n<div class=\"xdj266r x14z9mp xat24cr x1lziwak x1vvkbs x126k92a\">\n<div dir=\"auto\">\n<p>Perhaps you imagined such a view of life and death to be modern and, thus, uniquely enlightened. \u00a0Obviously, though, it\u2019s not. \u00a0But it is a self-consistent philosophy, in its way. \u00a0Is it true, though? \u00a0And, speaking of the general population as opposed to individual cases, will it provide sufficient incentive to motivate a moral life, let alone a life of sometimes self-sacrificial giving? \u00a0Is it a sufficient basis for society? \u00a0The late Rodney Stark\u2019s brilliant 1997 book <em>The Rise of Christianity: How the Obscure, Marginal Jesus Movement Became the Dominant Religious Force in the Western World in a Few Centuries<\/em> offers some very useful insights into the latter two questions. \u00a0I\u2019m thinking, particularly, of his discussion of the starkly different reactions of Christians and pagans to the virulent plagues that swept the ancient Mediterranean world, which Stark, an eminent sociologist, says led to widely different rates of survival and, not coincidentally, to large numbers of Christian converts.<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<figure id=\"attachment_39548\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-39548\" style=\"width: 597px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/02\/800px-Konstantin_Flavitsky_-_Christian_Martyrs_in_Colosseum.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-39548\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2017\/02\/800px-Konstantin_Flavitsky_-_Christian_Martyrs_in_Colosseum.jpg\" alt=\"Preparing to die for Christ\" width=\"597\" height=\"429\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-39548\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">Konstantin Flavitsky, \u201cChristian Martyrs in the Colosseum\u201d (1862)<br>Wikimedia Commons public domain<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>Now, <em>this<\/em> is refreshing: <a href=\"https:\/\/www.deseret.com\/faith\/2025\/12\/04\/robert-griffin-iii-byu-latter-day-saints-christian\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cA former NFL quarterback keeps defending the Christianity of Latter-day Saints:\u00a0Robert Griffin III keeps using that word \u2018Christian\u2019 to refer to BYU in his sports commentary, much to the chagrin of some respondents.\u201d<\/a> \u00a0Incidentally, Griffin, who played college football for Baylor University, was the 2011 winner of the Heisman Trophy.<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_81213\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-81213\" style=\"width: 596px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2019\/12\/1280px-Dawn_Charles_V_Palace_Alhambra_Granada_Andalusia_Spain.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\" wp-image-81213\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2019\/12\/1280px-Dawn_Charles_V_Palace_Alhambra_Granada_Andalusia_Spain.jpg\" alt=\"The Alhambra at sunrise.\" width=\"596\" height=\"397\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-81213\" class=\"wp-caption-text\"><em>Al-Qasr al-Hamra\u2019<\/em> (aka \u201cthe Alhambra,\u201d or \u201cthe Red Palace\u201d) at dawn <br>(Wikimedia Commons public domain photography)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>You\u2019ve probably heard this sixteenth-century Spanish Christmas carol before. \u00a0Maybe, though, you had no idea what the lyrics meant. \u00a0And, very possibly, you missed <a href=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/watch?v=riG85oA6Wy4\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">this unexpected version of it.<\/a>\u00a0 \u00a0My thanks to Eric Larson for calling the video to my attention.<\/p>\n<div class=\"WaaZC\">\n<div class=\"rPeykc uP58nb MNX06c\" data-hveid=\"CCYQAQ\" data-ved=\"2ahUKEwiIpNSzjaeRAxXdJ0QIHYoeOuQQo_EKegQIJhAB\"><span data-huuid=\"9211476959541360050\">The \u201cwords\u201d <em>riu riu chiu <\/em><\/span>likely represent the sound of a nightingale or a kingfisher \u2014 in other words, a case of onomatopoeia \u2014 <span data-huuid=\"9211476959541360050\">although some think that they are a Spanish shepherd\u2019s call to his flock. \u00a0(As far as I\u2019m concerned, they could be <em>both<\/em>.) \u00a0The word <em>riu<\/em> is Catalan for \u201criver\u201d (cf. Spanish <em>r\u00edo<\/em>), but that may be mere coincidence.<\/span><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<blockquote><p>Riu, riu, chiu<br>\nla guarda ribera<br>\nDios guard\u00f3 el lobo<br>\nde nuestra cordera<br>\nDios guard\u00f3 el lobo<br>\nde nuestra cordera.<\/p>\n<p>El lobo rabioso<br>\nla quiso morder<br>\nMas Dios Poderoso<br>\nla supo defender<br>\nQuizo la hacer que<br>\nno pudiese pecar<br>\nNi aun original<br>\nesta virgen no tuviera.<\/p>\n<p>Riu, riu, chiu\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Este que es nascido<br>\nes El Gran Monarca<br>\nCristo Patriarca<br>\nde carne vestido<br>\nHa nos redimido<br>\ncon se hacer chiquito<br>\nAunque era infinito<br>\nfinito se hiciera.<\/p>\n<p>Riu, riu, chiu \u2026<\/p>\n<p>Pues que ya tenemos<br>\nlo que deseamos<br>\nTodos juntos vamos<br>\npresentes llevemos<br>\nTodos le daremos<br>\nnuestra voluntad<br>\nPues a se igualar<br>\ncon nosotros viniera.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Here\u2019s an English version of the lyrics.<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>Riu, riu, chiu<br>\nThe river bank is protected<br>\nGod has kept the wolf<br>\nFrom our ewe lamb<br>\nGod has kept the wolf<br>\nFrom our ewe lamb<\/p>\n<p>The rabid wolf<br>\nWanted to bite her<br>\nBut Almighty God<br>\nKnew how to defend her<br>\nHe willed to make her<br>\nUnable to sin<br>\nEven original sin<br>\nThis virgin did not have<\/p>\n<p>Riu, riu, chiu\u2026<\/p>\n<p>The one who is born<br>\nIs the Great Monarch<br>\nChrist the Patriarch<br>\nClothed in flesh<br>\nHe has redeemed us<br>\nBy making himself small<br>\nThough he was infinite<br>\nHe became finite<\/p>\n<p class=\"ll-8-1\">Riu, riu, chiu\u2026<\/p>\n<p>Now we have<br>\nWhat we desire<br>\nLet us go together<br>\nTo present him gifts<br>\nLet us all give him<br>\nOur will<br>\nFor he came<br>\nAs our equal<\/p>\n<p>Riu, riu, chiu\u2026<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 A new article went up today in Interpreter: A Journal of Latter-day Saint Faith and Scholarship, representing the Foundation\u2019s 698th consecutive Friday of publishing a journal article. \u00a0(The Foundation was launched 699.5 weeks ago.) \u00a0The new article is\u00a0\u201c\u201cUpon All the Nations\u201d: The g\u00f4yim in Nephi\u2019s Rendition of Isaiah 2 (2 Nephi 12) in Literary [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":64563,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[2517,39437,201,2905,788,39434],"class_list":["post-113927","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-christmas","tag-epicureanism","tag-isaiah","tag-latter-day-saint","tag-mormon","tag-riu-riu-chiu"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Messiah, the Gentiles, and the Old Testament<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"&nbsp; 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