{"id":39384,"date":"2017-01-25T10:20:07","date_gmt":"2017-01-25T17:20:07","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=39384"},"modified":"2017-01-25T12:27:28","modified_gmt":"2017-01-25T19:27:28","slug":"cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html","title":{"rendered":"“Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory”"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\"Moroni<\/a>
No believing, orthodox Latter-day Saint that I can ever recall meeting or having read denies that Moroni buried the golden plates in a hill that lies in today\u2019s upstate New York.\u00a0(Image from LDS Media Library)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled \u201cA New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On\u201d:<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/new-york-cumorah-not-hill-die.html<\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

Among other things, Roper\u2019s article calls attention to what is often styled the \u201ctwo Cumorahs theory,\u201d which is a common correlate of Mesoamerican limited geographical models for the Book of Mormon.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

In response, a number of people have written to me saying that they believe that, excepting the early chapters of 1 Nephi, the story of the Book of Mormon took place in North America, not in South America \u2014 by which they typically mean that they follow a \u201cHeartland\u201d or \u201cGreat Lakes\u201d model of Book of Mormon geography.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

They\u2019re perfectly free to follow whatever geographical model they prefer, of course. \u00a0(As I like to point out, nobody\u2019s salvation hinges on knowing the precise GPS coordinates of the Jaredite city of Lib.) \u00a0But everybody should understand that adherents of a Mesoamerican setting for the Book of Mormon \u2014 such as I am, although the issue\u00a0doesn\u2019t rank especially high on my list of concerns \u2014 also<\/em> believe that the Book of Mormon narrative took place chiefly in North America. \u00a0Everything from Canada through the United States and Mexico down to and including Panama is typically reckoned by geographers as part of North America.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

Others have written to remind me that the Latter-day Saint visitors center at the Hill Cumorah just south of Palmyra, New York, identifies that hill as a historic site and as the place where the mortal Moroni buried the plates of the Book of Mormon in AD 421. \u00a0This, they seem to think, is a decisive statement by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints<\/a> proving the \u201ctwo Cumorahs theory\u201d wrong.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

Again, though, their argument seems to rest on an error. \u00a0Believers in the \u201ctwo Cumorahs theory\u201d \u2014 of whom I\u2019m one, although, yet again, the issue isn\u2019t of pivotal importance to me \u2014 contend that the location\u00a0of the final Jaredite and Nephite battles was far to the south, perhaps near Veracruz, and not in modern-day upstate New York. \u00a0However, they do not deny that the glacial drumlin between Palmyra and Manchester, New York, is where Moroni buried the golden plates roughly thirty-six years after the Lamanite destruction of the Nephites.<\/em><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

So acceptance of the proposition that Moroni buried the plates in the hill near the later Smith family farm is shared by both \u201cHeartland\u201d and Mesoamerican models, and can\u2019t be used to distinguish between them. \u00a0It also can\u2019t be used to argue that adherents of the \u201ctwo Cumorahs theory\u201d are in disagreement with official statements of the Church.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

While I\u2019m at it, too, here is an interesting exchange on the question of a New York or Mesoamerican Cumorah between Andrew Hedges and Matt Roper:<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u201cCumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u201cPlausibility, Probability, and the Cumorah Question\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u201cProblems with Probability: A Response\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

I like the irenic tone of the exchange. \u00a0This topic doesn\u2019t merit anger, irritation, or mutual excommunication. \u00a0It\u2019s very important, in my view, to believe that the story of the Book of Mormon peoples took place. \u00a0The question of where<\/em> that story took place, though, while interesting and far from trivial, is of considerably less<\/em> importance.<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

\u00a0 \u00a0 A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled \u201cA New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On\u201d: \u00a0 http:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/new-york-cumorah-not-hill-die.html \u00a0 Among other things, Roper\u2019s article calls attention to what is often styled the \u201ctwo Cumorahs theory,\u201d which is a common correlate of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-39384","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized"],"yoast_head":"\n"Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory"<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"    A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled "A New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On":  \" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\""Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory"\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"    A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled "A New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On":  \" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Sic et Non\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2017-01-25T17:20:07+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-01-25T19:27:28+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"http:\/\/wp.production.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/files\/2017\/01\/moroni-buries-plates-39672-gallery.jpg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dan Peterson\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dan Peterson\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html\",\"name\":\"\\\"Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory\\\"\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2017-01-25T17:20:07+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-01-25T19:27:28+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#\/schema\/person\/77113e9b09701bd1599fa272c4f65045\"},\"description\":\"    A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled \\\"A New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On\\\":  \",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"“Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory”\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/\",\"name\":\"Sic et Non\",\"description\":\"\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#\/schema\/person\/77113e9b09701bd1599fa272c4f65045\",\"name\":\"Dan Peterson\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/5ed1a72d26805e35a503e3167599df7c?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/5ed1a72d26805e35a503e3167599df7c?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dan Peterson\"},\"description\":\"\\\"Life was very unsatisfying until I discovered Dan's blog, which gave me a reason to live.\\\" (gemli, 7 November 2019)\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/author\/danpeterson\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"\"Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory\"","description":"    A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled \"A New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On\":  ","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"\"Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory\"","og_description":"    A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled \"A New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On\":  ","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html","og_site_name":"Sic et Non","article_published_time":"2017-01-25T17:20:07+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-01-25T19:27:28+00:00","og_image":[{"url":"http:\/\/wp.production.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/files\/2017\/01\/moroni-buries-plates-39672-gallery.jpg"}],"author":"Dan Peterson","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dan Peterson","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html","name":"\"Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory\"","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#website"},"datePublished":"2017-01-25T17:20:07+00:00","dateModified":"2017-01-25T19:27:28+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#\/schema\/person\/77113e9b09701bd1599fa272c4f65045"},"description":"    A couple of days ago, I posted a link to an item by Matt Roper titled \"A New York Cumorah? Not a Hill We Have to Die On\":  ","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2017\/01\/cumorah-limited-mesoamerican-theory.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"“Cumorah and the Limited Mesoamerican Theory”"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/","name":"Sic et Non","description":"","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#\/schema\/person\/77113e9b09701bd1599fa272c4f65045","name":"Dan Peterson","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/5ed1a72d26805e35a503e3167599df7c?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/5ed1a72d26805e35a503e3167599df7c?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dan Peterson"},"description":"\"Life was very unsatisfying until I discovered Dan's blog, which gave me a reason to live.\" (gemli, 7 November 2019)","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/author\/danpeterson"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39384","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1019"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=39384"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/39384\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=39384"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=39384"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=39384"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}