{"id":91361,"date":"2021-05-27T15:48:17","date_gmt":"2021-05-27T21:48:17","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/?p=91361"},"modified":"2021-05-27T16:56:05","modified_gmt":"2021-05-27T22:56:05","slug":"a-note-from-one-of-the-principal-conspirators","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/danpeterson\/2021\/05\/a-note-from-one-of-the-principal-conspirators.html","title":{"rendered":"A note from one of the principal conspirators"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<figure id=\"attachment_91364\" aria-describedby=\"caption-attachment-91364\" style=\"width: 387px\" class=\"wp-caption aligncenter\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2021\/05\/Seer_stone_Latter_Day_Saints.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"size-full wp-image-91364\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/186\/2021\/05\/Seer_stone_Latter_Day_Saints.jpg\" alt=\"LDS Historical Department seer stone\" width=\"387\" height=\"258\"><\/a><figcaption id=\"caption-attachment-91364\" class=\"wp-caption-text\">This may be the very seer stone used by the Prophet Joseph Smith for the translation of the Book of Mormon.<br>(Courtesy of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints)<\/figcaption><\/figure>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #800000;\">***<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m amused to report that the first \u201creview\u201d of the Interpreter Foundation\u2019s theatrical film <a href=\"https:\/\/witnessesfilm.com\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"><em>Witnesses<\/em> <\/a>has been posted.\u00a0 (I\u2019m quite sure that other, similarly negative, reviews have already been written \u2014 it saves time! \u2014 and that their authors are simply waiting for the movie to actually appear.). \u201cPeter Pan,\u201d the principal figure behind the valuable <em>Neville-Neville Land<\/em> blog \u2014 whose identity I do not know, although I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if s\/he were someone with whom I\u2019m acquainted \u2014 contacted me by email late last night to tell me that Mr. Jonathan Neville has posted an entry about the film on one of his approximately 3,437 blogs.\u00a0 I\u2019ve now had a look at what Mr. Neville has written.\u00a0 Here are some selections:<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>Such a film could have presented a complete, historically accurate account of the witnesses and what they said, which would be awesome.\u00a0<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>I haven\u2019t seen the film yet, but people who have tell me it\u2019s another affirmation of the latest intellectual fads from the M2C and SITH citation cartels, which means important testimony from the Three Witnesses is omitted because it contradicts M2C, while statements about SITH are emphasized.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>I\u2019m withholding judgment until I see the film.\u00a0<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>For the uninitiated, the phrase <em>M2C citation cartel<\/em> refers, in Nevillese, to a conspiracy made up of those inclined toward a Mesoamerican geographical model for the Book of Mormon.\u00a0 It includes such people as John Sorenson, Brant Gardner, John Clark, and (although I\u2019ve personally published next to nothing on Book of Mormon geographical issues) me.\u00a0 We are alleged to be misleading Church historians and curriculum writers, as well as the Lord\u2019s chosen prophets and apostles and the Latter-day Saints generally, by suppressing information that would reveal the Truth that is known to Mr. Neville and several of his associates.\u00a0 The formula <em>M2C<\/em> \u2014 not to be confused with Albert Einstein\u2019s more famous <em>E = mc<sup>2<\/sup><\/em>\u00a0\u2014 refers to a thesis of ours about the hill known as \u201cCumorah.\u201d\u00a0 Our suggestion is that the site of the final Jaredite and Nephite battles was located in Mesoamerica, and that it is thus distinct from the hill in which Moroni buried the plates and from which Joseph Smith received them.\u00a0 Thus, there are, in a sense, two Cumorahs.\u00a0 <em>M2C.<\/em>\u00a0 Get it?\u00a0 According to Nevillism, it is one of the most fundamental principles of orthodox faith in the Restoration that the final Jaredite and Nephite battles occurred in upstate New York, near Palmyra. And the Nevillese acronym <em>SITH<\/em> refers to the \u201cstone in the hat\u201d \u2014 the notion, firmly rooted in multiple primary historical sources from friendly associates of Joseph Smith, accepted by <a href=\"https:\/\/abn.churchofjesuschrist.org\/study\/ensign\/2015\/10\/joseph-the-seer?lang=eng\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">every serious historian who has written on the subject<\/a>, and publicly shared by <a href=\"https:\/\/abn.churchofjesuschrist.org\/study\/ensign\/1993\/07\/a-treasured-testament?lang=eng\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">President Russell M. Nelson<\/a>, among others, that at least part of the translation of the Book of Mormon was accomplished by means of a seer stone placed in a hat rather than via the Urim and Thummim.\u00a0 Mr. Neville regards this idea as a terrible and even heretical falsehood.\u00a0 Hence, his adoption of a term from the universe of <em>Star Wars<\/em> to refer to it:\u00a0 \u201cThe\u00a0Sith, also referred to as the\u00a0Sith Order, was an ancient\u00a0religious\u00a0order of\u00a0Force-wielders\u00a0devoted to the\u00a0dark side of the Force. Driven by their emotions, including hate, anger, and greed, the Sith were deceptive and obsessed with gaining power no matter the cost.\u201d\u00a0 (See\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/starwars.fandom.com\/wiki\/Sith\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">https:\/\/starwars.fandom.com\/wiki\/Sith<\/a>.)<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>But back to Mr. Neville:<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>One of the things to look for is the treatment of the encounter David Whitmer had with the messenger who was taking the abridged plates from Harmony (where he had received them from Joseph) to Cumorah.\u00a0<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>Surely the filmmakers will not omit this event, which involved David, Oliver and Joseph.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>As a matter of fact, though, we <em>did<\/em> omit that event.\u00a0 In a film with four protagonists, covering a complex story that extends over a decade, not everything can be included.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Mr. Neville then shifts his criticism to our alleged treatment of the experience with the plates that Mary Whitmer had in her barn.\u00a0 That story is also not depicted in the dramatic film, though it will appear in the accompanying docudrama that we\u2019re finishing up now and that will appear, we anticipate, a few months after the theatrical premiere of <em>Witnesses.<\/em>\u00a0 He faults our new website, <em>Witnesses<\/em> of the Book of Mormon, for supposedly privileging David Whitmer\u2019s \u201cdirect testimony\u201d account of her experience over the \u201chearsay\u201d account given by her grandson John C. Whitmer.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>This, by the way, is an odd error for Mr. Neville to have made, since he is reputedly a lawyer by training:\u00a0 David Whitmer heard about the experience directly from his mother, true.\u00a0 But John C. Whitmer himself <em>also<\/em> heard it directly from her.\u00a0 Mr. Neville\u2019s own little article \u2014 this very <em>one<\/em> \u2014 cites John C. Whitmer as saying \u201cI have heard my grandmother say on several occasions that she was shown the plates of the Book of Mormon by a holy angel.\u201d\u00a0 If John C. Whitmer\u2019s testimony is \u201chearsay,\u201d so is David Whitmer\u2019s.\u00a0 If David Whitmer\u2019s testimony isn\u2019t \u201chearsay,\u201d neither is John\u2019s.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>But why, exactly, do we conspirators promote John C. Whitmer\u2019s testimony and try to suppress David\u2019s?<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>My primary answer would be that we <em>don\u2019t<\/em>.\u00a0 And that we\u2019re not conspirators.\u00a0 But Mr. Neville has an explanation ready to hand.\u00a0 He feels that it is important to his argument for a single Cumorah, located in New York, that the person who showed the plates to Mary Whitmer was not Moroni but, rather, some other person (probably one of the Three Nephites).\u00a0 And the M2C citation cartel simply cannot permit that:<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>Why does <\/strong>[sic]<strong> the M2C citation cartel members continue to promote the fake Moroni\/Mary Whitmer story?<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>It\u2019s simple.\u00a0<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>M2C trumps everything else.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>They absolutely cannot allow Church members to learn that . . .<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>M2C (the Mesoamerican\/two-Cumorahs theory) is a hoax perpetrated by a handful of LDS scholars who stole the idea . . .<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #993300;\"><strong>It\u2019s a lot of fun to see the way our famous LDS intellectuals manipulate historical evidence. . . .\u00a0 \u00a0[T]he M2C citation cartel has not only repudiated the teachings of the prophets but has misled generations of LDS students.<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>Curiously, though,\u00a0 since I\u2019m one of the wicked leaders of the M2C citation cartel, I feel no urgency whatever over the identity of the person who showed the plates to Mary Whitmer.\u00a0 Indeed, I\u2019ve long been inclined to the view that it <em>wasn\u2019t<\/em> Moroni.\u00a0 (Sorry to disappoint!)<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And <em>Witnesses<\/em> has nothing whatsoever to do with the question of geographical models for the Book of Mormon.<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>For some recent entries on the <em>Neville-Neville Land<\/em> blog, see these links:<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nevillenevilleland.com\/2021\/05\/excellent-response-to-jonathan-neville-youtube-interview.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cAn excellent response to Jonathan Neville\u2019s YouTube interview\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nevillenevilleland.com\/2021\/05\/follow-up-spencer-kraus-response-jonathan-neville.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cFollow-up to Spencer Kraus\u2019s response to Jonathan Neville\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nevillenevilleland.com\/2021\/05\/jonathan-neville-abuses-oliver-cowdery-once-again.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cJonathan Neville abuses Oliver Cowdery once again\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.nevillenevilleland.com\/2021\/05\/rod-meldrum-church-history-department.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cRod Meldrum: The Church History Department is an \u201cantagonist\u201d that \u201cattacks\u201d Heartlanders\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>And, finally and on a more positive note, here are three new entries on the Book of Mormon Central site that are directly relevant to the <em>Witnesses<\/em> film, which opens in theaters next week:<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org\/knowhy\/why-was-oliver-cowdery-excommunicated-from-the-church\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cWhy Was Oliver Cowdery Excommunicated from the Church?\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org\/knowhy\/why-did-oliver-cowdery-come-back-to-the-church\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cWhy Did Oliver Cowdery Come Back to the Church?\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/knowhy.bookofmormoncentral.org\/knowhy\/why-did-the-kirtland-safety-society-fail\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201cWhy Did the Kirtland Safety Society Fail?\u201d<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>\u00a0 \u00a0 *** \u00a0 I\u2019m amused to report that the first \u201creview\u201d of the Interpreter Foundation\u2019s theatrical film Witnesses has been posted.\u00a0 (I\u2019m quite sure that other, similarly negative, reviews have already been written \u2014 it saves time! \u2014 and that their authors are simply waiting for the movie to actually appear.). \u201cPeter Pan,\u201d the [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1019,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[1],"tags":[6312,259,1809,22150,2262,918,1941,5183,21866,22147,15978,975,22853,114,22856,23375,3454,2905,1812,1815,6780,11039,1218,788,55,1667,1221,6117,6783,11645,16759,21685,11651,11648,11635,5054,5688,21646,7917,4003,921,6384,21713],"class_list":["post-91361","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-uncategorized","tag-book-of-mormon-geography","tag-book-of-mormon-witnesses","tag-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints","tag-citation-cartel","tag-cumorah","tag-david-whitmer","tag-hat","tag-heartland","tag-heartlander","tag-heartlanders","tag-hill-cumorah","tag-interpreter","tag-interpreter-film","tag-interpreter-foundation","tag-interpreter-movie","tag-john-c-whitmer","tag-jonathan-neville","tag-latter-day-saint","tag-latter-day-saints","tag-lds","tag-m2c","tag-mary-musselman-whitmer","tag-mary-whitmer","tag-mormon","tag-mormonism","tag-mormons","tag-moroni","tag-neville","tag-neville-neville-land","tag-seer","tag-seer-stone","tag-seers","tag-seership","tag-seerstone","tag-sith","tag-stone","tag-three-witnesses","tag-undaunted-witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon","tag-whitmer","tag-witness","tag-witnesses","tag-witnesses-film","tag-witnesses-of-the-book-of-mormon"],"yoast_head":"<!-- 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