{"id":12635,"date":"2017-07-22T19:23:27","date_gmt":"2017-07-22T23:23:27","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=12635"},"modified":"2017-07-24T01:04:17","modified_gmt":"2017-07-24T05:04:17","slug":"angry-atheists-online-judge","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/07\/angry-atheists-online-judge.html","title":{"rendered":"Not Many &#8220;Angry Atheists&#8221; Online? You be the Judge"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-12637 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2017\/07\/AngryMan14-1.jpg\" alt=\"AngryMan14\" width=\"640\" height=\"427\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">[<a href=\"https:\/\/www.pexels.com\/photo\/man-person-face-portrait-34667\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Pexels.com<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/pixabay.com\/en\/person-human-male-man-forest-males-804035\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Pixabay<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.pexels.com\/photo-license\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">CC0 license<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Recently, I had the distinct blessing\u00a0(Mt 5:11-12) of being the<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\/posts\/1641298032571842\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">target of 21 out of\u00a0[literally] 54 atheists<\/a> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">who appeared in a<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"> <a style=\"color: #0000ff;\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tippling\/2017\/07\/18\/patheos-catholic-atheist-war-respectfully-speaking\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">combox of a post<\/a><\/span> on the blog run by atheist Jonathan MS Pearce (and also<\/span><a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tippling\/2017\/07\/20\/ban-not-ban-question\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"> a second one<\/a>).<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> It started out on the topic of my critiques of deconversion stories, and then quickly descended into an avalanche of\u00a0complaining (and, well, <em>lying<\/em>) about my strict, zero-tolerance-of-insults<\/span> <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/my-comments-policy-thoughts-on-amiable-and-constructive-dialogue.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">moderation policy on my blog<\/a>: <span style=\"color: #000000;\">then to outright malice and vitriol. I explained till I was blue in the face why I have such a policy, but no matter. As I recently commented:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">People get mad when they are banned, just as we have disgruntled former employees, athletes angry when they are ejected from a game, etc. That\u2019s just how it is. But it ain\u2019t my problem. The umpire (or judge) is always unpopular with the ones he disagrees with.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This was a full-scale, old-fashioned \u201cfeeding frenzy.\u201d This is my term for when virtually everyone in a given online group decides to focus upon attacking and savaging one person with a dissenting view. Anything goes. Any insult is permissible. Nothing is forbidden. Ethics goes straight out the window. Atheists aren\u2019t the only ones who do it. Christians do it all the time, too (as I\u2019ve been decrying and condemning for many years). It\u2019s a general human failing, and one of the most despicable ongoing scandals of online behavior.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">And thus we are brought to Example #4,978,109 of notorious \u201cangry atheist\u201d online behavior: a huge problem (at least when <em>Christians<\/em> dare show up). More thoughtful atheists will decry this phenomenon along with me, and I have publicly stated several times that these types <em>do <strong>not<\/strong> represent atheism as a whole<\/em>, and that atheists I know in person are not like this.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">But, that said, it remains a gigantic scandal, and a \u201cPR\u201d problem for the atheist image. It certainly doesn\u2019t make for a very appealing face. Other atheists flat-out deny that it is <em>any<\/em> problem, and\/or say that Christians behave just as badly towards atheists. When Christians do that (and they do, far too often), I roundly condemn it. <em>I<\/em> don\u2019t do it. No one on my blog or Facebook page does it, because I have great people there, and they know I wouldn\u2019t allow it, in any event.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Jonathan MS Pearce<\/strong> <\/span>(as he <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/tippling\/2017\/07\/20\/ban-not-ban-question\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">wrote about<\/a>)<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> is perfectly content\u00a0to allow this sort of disgraceful behavior on his blog, not because he himself loves it, but rather, as a necessary evil, for the sake of the principle and value of free speech (as he sees it). I couldn\u2019t disagree with him more than I do. But to his credit, at least he was one of only two atheists who stood up for me at all during this debacle. He wrote in the same piece:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">With direct regard to Dave Armstrong, . . . well done to him for coming here and suffering the slings and arrows of atheists\u2019 wrath. It takes a lot of time to read and comment on such extensive and scattered threads as that one, and I commend him for getting involved and defending himself. Goodonya, mate.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The only other atheist to do so was <strong>\u201cSastra\u201d<\/strong>:<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I once knew [Dave] on a debate listserv many many years ago \u00a0. . .\u00a0That Dave Armstrong was both intelligent and likeable, by the way. WRONG \u2014 but still nice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I think Dave is generally an honorable person, . . .<\/span><\/p>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span class=\"post-byline\" style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\"><strong>\u201cComrade Carrot-Blog Vegetarian\u201d<\/strong>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">also noted that he had \u201c<\/span><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">had generally positive interactions\u201d with me in the past. In a comment in the combox for this post, he condemned the insults of the thread in no uncertain terms (what a breath of fresh air in this vile, foul environment!):<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\" style=\"padding-left: 30px;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I don\u2019t begruge you your own [moderation] policy. In my estimation, you\u2019re trying to accomplish something very specific with the forum that you\u2019ve created, and I trust your policies were designed with that end in mind. \u00a0. . .\u00a0I condemn, unequivocally, much of the behavior on display on the post in question. It would be utterly unacceptable, EVEN IF (for the atheists reading) retaliatory in nature.<\/span><\/header>\n<p>*<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">The rest is almost wholly insults. For those who think angry atheists aren\u2019t alive and well online and as hostile, malicious, and vitriolic as ever, take a look at what happened in just two comboxes. Imagine what the response would be if I literally wished that some atheist would \u201cdie\u201d (as \u201cRaging Bee\u201d [apt name!] did below)? We\u2019d never hear the end of how \u201chateful\u201d Christians are. All comments were directed personally to me [warning: some may not care for some of the \u201cPG-13\u201d language; I\u2019ve bleeped out the worst of it]:<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Ian Cooper<\/strong> . . .\u00a0you\u2019ve sallied out of your little walled castle (presumably because you\u2019re looking to increase your dwindling fanbase by grabbing a few of Jonathan\u2019s Christian readers) . . .<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s not our fault that you\u2019ve pissed off so many of us. And no one\u2019s asking you to argue with all of us. You could just take your knocks, or just go back to your safe space and post another anti-atheist hit piece \u2013 you won\u2019t find us there, snowflake.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">If he was sincere, he wouldn\u2019t stifle dissent. He would welcome it and address it. He doesn\u2019t do that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0what a ban really says, quite clearly, is \u201cI\u2019m not smart enough to take this guy on\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0when a blogger regularly attacks atheists, preventing them from defending themselves from such attacks is the act of a coward and a bully. A decent, fair and honest person does not pick a fight with someone he\u2019s bound and gagged first. If David Armstrong doesn\u2019t want atheists to respond, maybe he shouldn\u2019t be attacking us in the first place.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Have you read <em>1984<\/em>? \u201cWar is peace\u201d, \u201cFreedom is slavery\u201d, \u201cIgnorance is strength\u201d \u2013 and apparently \u201csuppression of dissent is true dialogue\u201d.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Armstrong allows a few atheists to post to his site \u2013 presumably to keep up the pretense that he welcomes critical voices, but it\u2019s just for show.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">All I\u2019m saying is that banning critical voices is intellectual cowardice.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Your problem is that you think disagreement is uncivil. [I replied: \u201cMy view is that uncivil disagreement is uncivil and not worth anyone\u2019s time\u201d]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0\u00a0one hardcore scumbag.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">If he was intelligent, likeable and nice, he wouldn\u2019t be banning people merely for disagreeing with him on his Patheos page.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[Ian Cooper added, when he discovered this post: \u201cHe quoted me, seemingly at some length. I skimmed it and didn\u2019t bother to read his responses, as I\u2019m well aware of the type of disingenuous scumbag he is, so doubtless he will have taken things out of context to make them look as unhinged as possible. Par for the course with a dirtbag like that. But hey, at least I got to get some of my thoughts onto his blog. Even though he\u2019s using them for his purposes, at least they\u2019ll show his readership that there are a bunch of people who think he\u2019s scum.\u201d]<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>josh<\/strong>\u00a0You cry and bitch about a comparison you don\u2019t like and then ban someone else, who didn\u2019t make it, for not agreeing with you sight unseen.<\/span><\/p>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Satanic_Panic<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>Dude, it\u2019s not our fault that you say so many stupid things.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0instead of providing an actual answer, you take the traditional christian route of obfuscation and appeals to authority.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[he \u201creplied\u201d on an atheist page that allows such mindless drivel: \u201cLove the new article, Dave. I am enjoying the fact that you quote my words but haven\u2019t unbanned me so I can respond. Go &amp;#%$ yourself, but in the nicest, non-angriest way possible!\u201d]<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> *<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> <span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Dangitbobby<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>But apologists can\u2019t be intellectually honest \u2013 they feel they have to rationalize their faith so they don\u2019t sound stupid.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong><span class=\"post-byline\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Pofarmer<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong>A dishonest apologist? I\u2019m shocked!<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Apologists aren\u2019t about having discussions. That should be clear.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Dave, you\u2019re a shallow, deluded, ignorant &amp;%$#%@&amp;. Accept it and move on.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s funny that the two groups that he bans immediately are those who don\u2019t take his fantasy seriously at all, and those who take his fantasy much more seriously than he does.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">One of the last things an apologist is interested in is truth, imho.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> *<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">HairyEyedWordBombThrower<\/span>\u00a0<\/strong>[my favorite: a real dimwit]. . .\u00a0<\/span>when proven to be a &amp;#%$ING LIAR, immediately moved to proposed legislation that has yet to be debated. You\u2019re a shameless hack, and it\u2019s becoming more and more evident with each of your sanctimonious posts.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> You sanctimonious asshat. Why don\u2019t you just remove yourself, however you can, and thereby improve humanity and the general quality of living matter?<br>\n*<br>\nYou made a &amp;#%$ing BLATANT Appeal to Authority, misplaced, as well, since Newton had no need for religion in explaining gravity, and now you have the GALL to deny it? Sanctimony, thy name is Dave Armstrong.<br>\n*<br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">OOOOooohhhh, brave man, acting all cocky from the other end of an internet link.\u00a0Have you the FIRST idea how pathetic you present yourself to be?<br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s more proven by all those you block for merely being inconveniently (as in, YOU\u2019RE &amp;#%$ING WRONG) right.<br>\n*<br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">So go the &amp;#%$ back under your bridge, troll.<br>\n*<br>\n<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">You\u2019re a weak &amp;#%$ing hypocrite, as evidenced by a number of people here who I trust FAR more than I\u2019m ever likely to trust you (in anything other than your guile and bile) saying that you\u2019ve been enforcing the typical religious thoughtcrime penalties on your blog.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">*<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">You don\u2019t want actual rigorous discussion of the matter. There are certain areas you declare off-limits, while projecting a facade of open dialog.<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">If you exclude all worthy challengers, you can give the appearance of robust debate while predetermining the outcome.<\/span>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">You are merely another smug deplorable.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">We can detect patterns, you hack.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u201cAnd they shall be called Liars for Jebus\u2122, and it shall be good, and they shall dishonestly attempt to steal power in their sanctimony\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Being recognized as enough of a threat to a self-consciously evil entity to be banned IS a badge of honor.<\/span><\/p>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Jim Jones<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>Armstrong is a Bill Donohue Catholic. He uses bloviating in place of argument.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">You have offered many examples here of your incompetence. You cannot answer the simplest of questions.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0you always run away from any arguments.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Armstrong can\u2019t deal with it. His usual response is silly platitudes or obfuscations, followed by banning when he can\u2019t handle the questions. In that, of course, he is a True Christian\u2122 like the rest.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\">There are no good Christian apologists. None.\u00a0There are no good Christian apologist books. None. I have sought them. They cannot be found.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Paul B. Lot<\/strong>\u00a0I expect nothing less from a weasel like you, a man of extremely weak moral character.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Clinton Max Walker<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0\u00a0<\/span>\u201cIf a man has sexual relations with a man as one does with a woman, both of them have done what is detestable. They are to be put to death; their blood will be on their own heads.\u201d<\/span><\/header>\n<div class=\"post-body-inner\">\n<div class=\"post-message-container\" data-role=\"message-container\">\n<div class=\"publisher-anchor-color\" data-role=\"message-content\">\n<div class=\"post-message \" dir=\"auto\" data-role=\"message\">\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Sticks and stones break homosexuals\u2019 bones, while mere words make you cry. Carry on defending this garbage. And if you believe you can, start in Uganda, you hate preaching sociopath.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Thank you for banning me. It is flattering to have a charlatan appreciate my heckling. I do not believe you are discussing anything at all. You have cleverly rehearsed arguments you like to shout from your golden soap box.<\/span><\/p>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Michael Neville<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>As I said, theologians, that\u2019s ALL theologians, not just the folks who theologize for your child-raping cult, make it up as they go along, trying to figure out what an imaginary critter is thinking.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<\/div>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Sophotroph<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>It\u2019s almost if you\u2019re somehow unable to comprehend when somebody has made a legitimate point against your argument; You \u201cknow\u201d you\u2019re right, so why waste any time thinking about it? Just fire off some links that don\u2019t actually support your argument and then sit there looking smug, hoping nobody realizes that you have no idea how an honest argument is conducted. That is, if you understand the difference between actual argument and stubborn contradiction.<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>RoverSerton\u00a0<\/strong>This site is an open forum and you are allowed to come here and troll but you won\u2019t allow it or any real discourse. Typical coward apologist, much like Longenecker. Writing things that neither of you can defend.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><br>\n<span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0go back to your echo chamber and preach to the choir. That is your goal, do it. Don\u2019t hang in here, wasting your time, with Atheists that will challenge your every dogmatic utterance. We appreciate dialog, you appreciate humbled silence.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">jamesparson<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>I am not surprised when Christians ban those who disagree with them. They have been doing it on one for or another for Centuries.. . . . They are in a weak position, and I think they know it.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong><span class=\"post-byline\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Brian Westley<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong>David Armstrong is an intellectual coward.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\"><strong>Geoff Benson<\/strong>\u00a0<\/span><\/span>If Bob was banned that really does suggest over sensitivity to the point of paranoia. The trouble is that there\u2019s only so much actual reason can be injected into religious discourse. Secular discussion has no such limit.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong><span class=\"post-byline\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Michael Newsham<\/span>\u00a0<\/span><\/strong>Figured he was just another Liar for Jesus.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Stev84<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>Catholicism has its fundies too. Especially on Patheos, where the Catholics are almost all bat#%$&amp; insane. Most ordinary Catholics are relatively laid back and don\u2019t take Vatican dogma all that seriously. But Catholic fundies are as crazy and hateful as Protestant ones \u2013 just in a slightly different a way.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Raging Bee<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0.\u00a0. .\u00a0<\/span>all I can say to you is \u201c&amp;#%$\u00a0off and die, you have nothing decent to offer here.\u201d<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Oh good lord, quit whining and pretending you\u2019re a victim of a gang-up. You chose to come here and spout nonsense on multiple subthreads, and now you\u2019re accusing US of \u201cthe 20-to-one scenario?\u201d Grow the &amp;#%$ up and take some responsibility for a change.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">You\u2019re bluffing, and you\u2019re being called out. Put up or shut up.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">. . .\u00a0how little credibility so many Christian preachers and apologists have.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\"><strong>3vil5triker<\/strong>\u00a0<\/span><\/span>I came to think that if he\u2019s been doing this for over thirty years, he\u2019s either a very bad apologist or a very good atheist troll; maybe even both: a good apologist that\u2019s good at trolling atheists, that is.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\"><strong>Matt Cavanaugh<\/strong>\u00a0<\/span><\/span>I and many others have not been banned for incivility \u2013 for we have been quite civil \u2014 but rather for wrongthink.<\/span><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">*<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span class=\"post-byline\"><strong><span class=\"author publisher-anchor-color\">Michael Weed<\/span><\/strong>\u00a0<\/span>Dave is about as thin skinned as they come and he just can\u2019t hack it. He can dish it out though, after he bans you. Meh.<\/span><br>\n*<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>zenlike<\/strong><\/span> <span style=\"color: #000000;\">[after the initial posting of this paper, that he saw]\u00a0First of all, if you did not agree with my comment you could have replied to it directly, you know, like it actually works on blogs. Instead you chose to copy paste it to your own blog and criticise it there, so I had to find it by accident. I find that quite dishonest. What is also dishonest is how you quote people but don\u2019t even bother to include a link to the originals, shielding the context of the quotes from your readers. And that would also show that my comment was NOT directed personally to you. A clear lie. <\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[Dave: I removed his comment, at his request, after reconsideration. Even after that, he chose to dig in even further, so that he is now back on the list]:<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">And yes, it is dishonest to not engage people\u2019s comments in the forum they were made, then copy paste them (without citation and out of context!) to your blog to use as propaganda material. It is doubly dishonest if you do this with people you have blocked, closing their avenue to engage your criticism of their comments.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">*<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[Dave: It\u2019s not dishonest at all to cite public information. As I said to another atheist (a non-angry one): \u201cPeople can and have responded: just not on my page. I\u2019ve already cited several of those responses; added \u2019em to the piece. And I removed one quote by request.\u201d As for context, I provided the two links where the quotations were found. Anyone can go consult those pages to see all the context they like (and my sympathies to them).]<br>\n*<br>\n<\/span><\/span><\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">[Undaunted, he continues]: Again, you remove what you and others say from their context, so a casual observer walks away with a very different idea. That is extremely dishonest and uncivil.<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I didn\u2019t throw in a gratuitous insult. I called your actions dishonest, and explained exactly why I thought they were. But because you have no recourse to my accusation, you just call it gratuitous (maybe look up that word in a dictionary) and handwave it away.\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I am glad my comment is added to your list, because it says more about you than about me. If you were honest, you would actually include the full context of it. I am not holding my breath.<\/span><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">Note<\/span>:<\/strong><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"> if anyone thinks better of their remark[s], and wishes to retract them, they can remove them from the combox where they appeared, let me know (no need for even a public apology; only for removal and expressed retraction to me) and I will be happy to remove it \/ them here, too.<\/span><\/span>\u00a0\n<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\">*****<\/header>\n<header class=\"comment__header\"><\/header>\n<\/header>\n<div class=\"post-body-inner\"><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>[Pexels.com \/ Pixabay \/ CC0 license] ***** Recently, I had the distinct blessing\u00a0(Mt 5:11-12) of being the target of 21 out of\u00a0[literally] 54 atheists who appeared in a combox of a post on the blog run by atheist Jonathan MS Pearce (and also a second one). It started out on the topic of my critiques [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":12636,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124],"tags":[2159,3804,626,855,2361,3808,627,1043,3807,745,3810,630,629,632,3805,784,3809,339,631,3812,2158,3806,98,3811],"class_list":["post-12635","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","tag-absurdity","tag-angry-atheist","tag-angry-atheists","tag-anti-catholic","tag-anti-catholicism","tag-anti-christian","tag-anti-christian-hostility","tag-anti-theism","tag-anti-theist","tag-anti-theists","tag-apostate-catholic","tag-atheist-bigotry","tag-atheist-prejudice","tag-civil-discussion","tag-foolishness","tag-fools","tag-former-catholic","tag-insults","tag-intolerance","tag-lack-of-charity","tag-ludicrosity","tag-silliness","tag-tolerance","tag-uncivil"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Not many &quot;Angry Atheists&quot; Online? You be the Judge<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Documentation of a remarkable display of malicious bilge spewed by 22 atheists in just two atheist comboxes: all directed towards yours truly.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/07\/angry-atheists-online-judge.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Not many &quot;Angry Atheists&quot; Online? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Not many \"Angry Atheists\" Online? 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You be the Judge","og_description":"Documentation of a remarkable display of malicious bilge spewed by 22 atheists in just two atheist comboxes: all directed towards yours truly.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/07\/angry-atheists-online-judge.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2017-07-22T23:23:27+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-07-24T05:04:17+00:00","og_image":[{"width":768,"height":512,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2017\/07\/AngryMan14.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"14 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/07\/angry-atheists-online-judge.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/07\/angry-atheists-online-judge.html","name":"Not many \"Angry Atheists\" Online? 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12635","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=12635"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/12635\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/12636"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=12635"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=12635"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=12635"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}