{"id":14473,"date":"2017-11-18T20:21:11","date_gmt":"2017-11-19T00:21:11","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=14473"},"modified":"2017-11-18T20:21:11","modified_gmt":"2017-11-19T00:21:11","slug":"catholic-ecumenism-apologetics-james-swans-cluelessness","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/11\/catholic-ecumenism-apologetics-james-swans-cluelessness.html","title":{"rendered":"Catholic Ecumenism + Apologetics (James Swan&#8217;s Cluelessness)"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-14474 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2017\/11\/VaticanStamp.jpg\" alt=\"VaticanStamp\" width=\"645\" height=\"486\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">[Anti-Catholic reformed Protestant polemicist James Swan <a href=\"https:\/\/beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com\/2017\/11\/vatican-issued-martin-luther.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">wrote about<\/a> the stamp put out by the Vatican with Luther and Melanchthon at the foot of the cross and crucified Jesus. His words will be in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.]<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">***<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">I do feel sorry for many of Rome\u2019s defenders. A lot of them \u201cconverted\u201d from Protestantism, and in their early zeal enjoyed throwing Luther and the Reformation under the bus.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">No need. I have said from the beginning that Luther has <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/the-catholic-sounding-luther-25-examples.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">a lot of true teachings <\/a>along with false ones. In fact, my first published article in January 1993 (in <em>The Catholic Answer<\/em>) was about that very thing: Luther\u2019s true beliefs and false analyzed together. I have continued ever since criticizing his false teaching and rejoicing in his true ones (I <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2014\/11\/books-by-dave-armstrong-catholic-luther.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">compiled a whole book of those<\/a>, in fact).<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">We can criticize falsehood, while rejoicing in the truths that our <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/11\/protestants-christians-heretics-or-both.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">Protestant brethren<\/a> share with us. There\u2019s no contradiction at all between apologetics (and\/or conversion) and <a href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/a-biblical-approach-to-other-religions\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">ecumenism<\/a>. They\u2019re perfectly compatible.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">This demonstrates one of the blatant follies of the entire Roman Catholic apologetic enterprise.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">Not at all. It demonstrates the blatant folly and befuddled illogic of the thought processes in the over-active brain of the polemicist and Catholic-basher James Swan.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">As a Protestant, there is no really eternal reason for \u201cconverting\u201d to Rome.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">Actually, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/10\/150-reasons-why-i-am-a-catholic.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">I\u2019ve provided 150<\/a> in one of my papers, for curious inquirers.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">If Rome holds Luther and Melanchthon are penitent at the foot of the cross, then by extension other Protestants are as well.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">Protestants worship Jesus as we do, and rejoice in His redeeming death on our behalf on the cross, and are saved (if they are, individually) by same. DUH!!!! Is this some big <em>revelation<\/em> or something? ZZZzzzzz (<span class=\"_47e3 _5mfr\" title=\"squint emoticon\"><span class=\"_7oe\">-_-<\/span><\/span>)<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">No analogy is perfect. Rome\u2019s apologists remind me of downloading freeware. Sure, the freeware works, but if you want more options, you have to pay some fee to get the expanded version with more features. The goal of Rome\u2019s apologists is to convince you to get the upgrade.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">It\u2019s true that Protestantism is a minimalistic, \u201cmere Christianity\u201d \/ bare bones \/ skeletal version of Christianity. Catholicism is the whole package, with deep spiritual riches and treasure waiting to be discovered by a Protestant who senses that he or she is lacking in some of these \u201cfuller\u201d features of historic, sacramental Christianity.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">When I look at the extra options Rome provides, I\u2019m not interested.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">You can lead a horse to water, but you can\u2019t make it drink.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">If the basic version provides Jesus Christ, you can keep the expanded version that includes saints, purgatory, indulgences, papal infallibility, transubstantiation, monkery, Mary\u2019s immaculate conception and assumption, etc. No thank you.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">Drats! I was waiting for \u201cpopery\u201d and \u201cMariolatry\u201d to appear on the list. If I believed in the caricatured, wacky, ultra-twisted version of \u201cCatholicism\u201d that Swan talks about, I wouldn\u2019t convert, either. The real thing is quite different. I wanted apostolic Christianity, with all its theological and moral teachings, and I sought a Christianity that incorporated\u00a0<strong><em>all<\/em><\/strong> of biblical teaching, not just carefully selected portions here and there, that happen to fit into a preconceived semi-heretical, endlessly self-contradictory theology.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">I got that in 1990 and have been totally fulfilled spiritually and theologically ever since. That said, <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/02\/gratefulness-for-my-evangelical-protestant-background.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">I do thank God for what I learned during my Protestant days<\/a>. It was 90% great stuff, and a wonderful foundation for my Christian walk and my apologetics, but in the final analysis, simply incomplete.<\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: justify;\">It\u2019s not a matter of good vs. evil or black and white, but rather, of \u201cvery good\u201d and \u201cbest.\u201d That\u2019s how and why the Vatican can have a stamp about Luther and Melanchthon. They are acknowledging some of the <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/11\/how-catholics-view-protestants.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">\u201cvery good\u201d that Protestantism contains<\/a>. I\u2019ve always done the same.<\/p>\n<p><strong>Related reading:<\/strong><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"http:\/\/jimmyakin.com\/2017\/09\/how-could-catholics-and-protestants-commemorate-the-reformation-together.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">How Could Catholics and Protestants Commemorate the Reformation\u2013Together? <\/a>(Jimmy Akin, 8 September 2017)<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.lifesitenews.com\/news\/vatican-announces-stamp-of-martin-luther-on-500th-anniversary-of-reformatio\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">source URL<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>[Anti-Catholic reformed Protestant polemicist James Swan wrote about the stamp put out by the Vatican with Luther and Melanchthon at the foot of the cross and crucified Jesus. His words will be in blue.] *** I do feel sorry for many of Rome\u2019s defenders. A lot of them \u201cconverted\u201d from Protestantism, and in their early [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":14474,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[231,64,51],"tags":[311,3121,310,2152,309,720,308,3122,4200,4198,2716,133],"class_list":["post-14473","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-anti-catholicism","category-conversion-and-converts","category-ecumenism-christian-unity","tag-catholics-protestants","tag-christian-relations","tag-christian-unity","tag-comparative-religion","tag-ecumenical","tag-ecumenical-movement","tag-ecumenism","tag-interreligious-discussion","tag-no-salvation-outside-the-church","tag-protestant-baptism","tag-salvation-outside-the-church","tag-vatican-ii"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Catholic Ecumenism + Apologetics (James Swan&#039;s Cluelessness)<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"James Swan seems to think that there is some inherent contradiction between Catholic apologetics and ecumenism. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Catholic Ecumenism + Apologetics (James Swan's Cluelessness)","description":"James Swan seems to think that there is some inherent contradiction between Catholic apologetics and ecumenism. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14473","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=14473"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/14473\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/14474"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=14473"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=14473"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=14473"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}