{"id":178,"date":"2013-11-20T12:25:00","date_gmt":"2013-11-20T12:25:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/11\/jeremiad-against-libertarianism-or-at-least-some-highly-secularized-extreme-versions-of-it.html"},"modified":"2017-05-25T18:45:05","modified_gmt":"2017-05-25T22:45:05","slug":"jeremiad-against-libertarianism-or-at-least-some-highly-secularized-extreme-versions-of-it","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/11\/jeremiad-against-libertarianism-or-at-least-some-highly-secularized-extreme-versions-of-it.html","title":{"rendered":"Jeremiad Against the Serious Error of Libertarianism"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both; text-align: center;\"><strong>. . .\u00a0 (or at least some highly secularized, extreme versions of it)<\/strong><\/div>\n<div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both; text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<div class=\"separator\" style=\"clear: both; text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2013\/11\/RandAyn.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-3764 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2013\/11\/RandAyn.jpg\" alt=\"RandAyn\" width=\"250\" height=\"375\"><\/a><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Ayn Rand (1905-1982), a pro-abortion atheist, was a big influence on libertarianism.<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/www.flickr.com\/photos\/48331433@N05\/7453053322\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Flickr<\/a> \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/creativecommons.org\/licenses\/by\/2.0\/\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">CC BY 2.0<\/a> license]\n<p>***<\/p><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><\/div>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\">\n<p>(11-20-13)<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>[from a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\/posts\/685952514773070\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Facebook thread <\/a>on my page]<\/p>\n<\/div>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">I\u2019ve been saying for years that libertarianism \u2014 at least in its extreme forms \u2014 has more difficulties being consistent with Christianity than even left-wing political views do. Mark Shea commented on <a href=\"http:\/\/www.catholicworldreport.com\/Item\/2721\/catholicism_and_libertarianism.aspx#.Uow_50m5RyF.facebook\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">this same article<\/a>: \u201d Libertarianism is a heresy. It focuses on subsidiarity while ignoring solidarity. It\u2019s a philosophy for people with no children.\u201d I agree.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">A libertarianism that entails legal drugs, moral \/ social neutrality regarding same-sex \u201cmarriage\u201d or things like cohabitation, etc. (all quite fashionable among many young people, even Catholics and other Christians and\/or \u201clibertarians\u201d), it falls short of Catholic social teaching and biblical teaching.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">Subsidiarity in libertarianism is not what Catholics object to, because it\u2019s a Catholic principle. It\u2019s the extreme emphasis of it to the exclusion of solidarity (as Mark Shea noted) which is the problem.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">I don\u2019t think government can or should do anything about cohabitation: but Christians certainly should. I was referring above mainly to the positions of those who are libertarians: it\u2019s this mentality of \u201cif it doesn\u2019t <i>harm<\/i> anyone, let folks do as they <i>wish<\/i>.\u201d That\u2019s the fundamental lie: <i>sin <b>does<\/b> harm society<\/i> because it harms <i>families and relationships<\/i>, which are the basis and foundation of society. To not understand this is to miss a very basic aspect of Christianity: the communitarian one (\u201cwe are our brothers\u2019 keepers,\u201d etc.).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\"> Libertarianism is a very mixed bag: many types, and sometimes people aren\u2019t even aware of the larger philosophical \/ social issues that lie behind a lot of this stuff. They just take in the philosophy from friends, etc.: which is the human tendency.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">Marijuana kills brain cells and memory. That\u2019s hardly good for society.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">Human laws ought to reflect natural laws. The law is supposed to sanction what is good and right, because that is best for society. Same-sex marriage will destroy society insofar as it is a perversion of the basic building-block of it and is also mortal sin in Catholic thinking. That\u2019s why it was unthinkable as a legality until very recently.\u00a0<\/span><span class=\"userContent\"> Sodomy ought to be illegal (and usually has been in most societies), and that is because it\u2019s against natural law, which good human law ought to reflect and mirror.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">Contraception was illegal until 1965 in the US, though obviously not enforced. The<a href=\"http:\/\/www.google.com\/url?sa=t&amp;rct=j&amp;q=&amp;esrc=s&amp;source=web&amp;cd=1&amp;cad=rja&amp;ved=0CCwQFjAA&amp;url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FGriswold_v._Connecticut&amp;ei=c--MUvTPGujcyQHc-4Bo&amp;usg=AFQjCNGHZ_J9RNZjJwcdpOdyIJYGpF_fDA&amp;sig2=bzX3cctPM3TiepawUAw6lA&amp;bvm=bv.56643336,d.aWc\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> Griswold v. Connecticut<\/a> case dealt with that and brought in the notorious \u201cright to privacy\u201d thing that was the groundwork for legal abortion. So philosophically and ethically, this sort of libertarian or \u201clet everyone do as they please\u201d thinking lies directly behind the abortion holocaust.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">The churches have to teach on the wrongness of fornication and masturbation. But few do at all, and those that do at all often do it in a dumb and insubstantial way. Thankfully, there is a growing and thriving abstinence movement now where young people can hear intelligent talks about these issues, so they can make sensible choices in their lives and avoid much misery and heartbreak that come from any sin. <\/span><\/p>\n<p><span class=\"userContent\">Homosexuality (i.e., male sexual acts) is so unhealthy because certain body parts weren\u2019t meant to be associated with certain other body parts (without getting graphic). So people get sick and die at a younger age as a result. The Bible makes the argument that it\u2019s against natural law (largely in St. Paul).<\/span><span class=\"userContent\">The whole notion that government couldn\u2019t say anything about contraception gave us abortion. That\u2019s the fruit. Now we\u2019re gonna get societally sanctioned homosexual \u201cmarriage\u201d leading to a perversion of the basis of society: the family.<\/span><\/p>\n<p>If people want to foolishly think like this, let them ponder the actual <i>results<\/i> of it. The government says lots of things about lots of private stuff: you can\u2019t rape in private, or abuse a child, or even kill yourself. The only dispute is over which things are moral or not, so it goes back to ethics and religion to make that determination.<\/p>\n<p>Thus, as society becomes more secularized, it becomes more immoral, to everyone\u2019s detriment. We see that tragically playing out now, all over the world.<\/p>\n<div style=\"text-align: center;\"><span class=\"userContent\">* * * * *<\/span><\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>. . .\u00a0 (or at least some highly secularized, extreme versions of it) Ayn Rand (1905-1982), a pro-abortion atheist, was a big influence on libertarianism. [Flickr \/ CC BY 2.0 license] *** (11-20-13) *** [from a Facebook thread on my page] I\u2019ve been saying for years that libertarianism \u2014 at least in its extreme forms [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":3764,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[289],"tags":[1015,1021,1022,1023],"class_list":["post-178","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-political-ethical-moral-issues","tag-catholic-social-teaching","tag-conservatism","tag-libertarian","tag-libertarianism"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Jeremiad Against the Serious Error of Libertarianism<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Subsidiarity in libertarianism is a Catholic principle. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Jeremiad Against the Serious Error of Libertarianism","description":"Subsidiarity in libertarianism is a Catholic principle. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/178","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=178"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/178\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3764"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=178"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=178"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=178"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}