{"id":199,"date":"2013-09-02T16:18:00","date_gmt":"2013-09-02T20:18:00","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/09\/how-much-money-should-apologists-make-our-societys-low-estimate-of-the-worth-of-spiritual-and-theological-work.html"},"modified":"2017-05-27T11:40:07","modified_gmt":"2017-05-27T15:40:07","slug":"thoughts-on-how-much-money-apologists","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2013\/09\/thoughts-on-how-much-money-apologists.html","title":{"rendered":"How Much Money Should Catholic Apologists Make?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>
<\/div>\n
. . . Our Society\u2019s Low Estimate of the Worth of Spiritual and Theological Work<\/strong><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
\"Dave0113-6\"<\/a><\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
[\u201cselfie\u201d from 1-23-13]<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
***<\/div>\n
<\/div>\n
(9-2-13)\n

***<\/p><\/div>\n

<\/div>\n

[Taken from an earlier discussion thread. Citations from others are from different commentators]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

What would be a very interesting discussion is \u201chow much is too much?\u201d How much money can the Catholic worker make before he is regarded as materialistic and greedy and jilting donors and contributors? Whatever that is deemed to be, I\u2019m quite sure I am well below it and likely will be indefinitely.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

How is a donation fundamentally different from a purchase? I take it that a contributor feels that he or she has personally benefited from the work of the group that they support (that seems generally true with regard to my own supporters). Whats the big dif? You support them because you agree with their \u201cproduct.\u201d<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

I wouldn\u2019t find it unseemly for an executive of a company to make this much\u2026 perhaps more<\/span><\/p>\n

Again, here <\/i>is the beginning of what I would find a tremendously stimulating discussion. Why is it that no one objects to someone who manufactures mufflers or aprons or gasoline or cupcakes, making fabulous amounts of money from good ol\u2019 capitalism, yet if someone in a Catholic apostolate makes what is deemed to be \u201ctoo much\u201d it is a huge scandal and people resent it and blast them?<\/p>\n

I\u2019ll answer my own question: I suspect it is because spiritual and theological teaching (\u201cproduct\u201d so to speak) is simply not valued as important<\/i>. Our society values material goods, so the ones who produce them are entitled to unlimited wealth, but if someone dares to devote themselves to Catholic education or outreach, we believe that they ought to live like paupers (as my own case abundantly illustrates!).<\/p>\n

Why<\/i>? What is the difference? Does anyone have a better theory than my own, above? It\u2019s not considered proper \u201cwork\u201d: it\u2019s always been that way: the priest or pastor was not considered to be a person who \u201cworked\u201d like most folks do. In my observation, they run rings around any other kind of worker, bar none. It\u2019s like the ridiculous canard that housewives don\u2019t \u201cwork.\u201d Right<\/i>!<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

\u201cDidn\u2019t the Pope reference exactly <\/i>this recently regarding priests, the cars they drive, and the lifestyles they live?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Priests are a special case: they voluntarily renounce much of that, along with marriage. That is a heroic call (the evangelical counsels). Lay Catholic workers are not bound to that. In my case, I have a wife and four children to support: five other human beings.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

\u201cEconomics: a free economy exchange is mutually beneficial. I am getting a product for my use, and they are receiving compensation for producing that product. An organization that asks for donations is something else entirely.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Ah, but you and others are getting a \u201cproduct\u201d from Catholic Answers and other similar apostolates (such as my own). It\u2019s just that it is not solely material; it\u2019s spiritual. My point was that the spiritual is undervalued. Your very analysis almost presupposes this.<\/p>\n

We are providing a service, like many other services. We just don\u2019t get much money for it. I\u2019ve written 40 books: several bestsellers in their (tiny) field. But I have to live like a pauper, because people don\u2019t value those things. Otherwise, I would make all kinds of money. If I wrote a sex novel or even a romantic novel and managed to get proper advertising; I could potentially make ten times or more what I make. Why? Because that is the \u201cdemand\u201d of our society. Supply and demand, right?<\/p>\n

It\u2019s fine to expect that someone who takes a vow of poverty should be poor (priests, religious), but the lay Catholic worker hasn\u2019t done that, and (usually) has a family to support, and is worthy of his or her wage, as the Bible says. My family lives very simply, by choice and philosophy and outlook on life and priorities, but we have bills to pay like anyone else.<\/p>\n

But how much is too <\/i>much? That is the interesting question. People assume and feel a lot of things, but is it really totally thought-through? Usually not . . .<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

I have no idea what a just wage is; I am questioning others who feel certain that they do <\/i>know; playing Socrates. I am sure, however, that the key thing is our interior attitude<\/i> towards wealth and materialism, and its relation<\/i> to other far more important things in life.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m also sure that people by the multiple thousands \u2014 well, millions \u2014 have made idols of money and materialism. That\u2019s patently obvious, but it\u2019s much more difficult to pinpoint individuals<\/i> who have done so, because we don\u2019t know all the facts and we can\u2019t read their hearts.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

How much money is too much and how is it determined? You have a perfect right to your opinion. I wanna know what lies behind<\/i> it and no one is giving me a reason except for one person who said that $45,000 was some kind of federal figure, so above that is too much.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

\u201cNow like or dislike Voris one has to admit the man does a lot of work.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

And Karl Keating doesn\u2019t<\/i>? He\u2019s only arguably the father of modern apologetics and built the largest apologetics organization in the world. You can still say it\u2019s too much money, but this<\/i> is not the way to do it . . . People don\u2019t know what Karl does with his time. Not all work is outwardly visible to the public. Even if he were semi-retired, why is it that originators of other corporations and enterprises who retire (Karl is over 60) or cut back on their own work are never raked over the coals with implications that they are lazy or didn\u2019t earn their money? They still began<\/i> the thing and that counts for something within the capitalistic system. It\u2019s still providing a \u201cproduct\u201d: just spiritual, but expressed in physical things: books, tapes, articles, talks, radio shows, a forum, question-answering from house apologists . . .<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

I don\u2019t think \u201cfederal standards\u201d cut it in terms of Catholic social teaching on just and equitable wages. I\u2019m just glad I live in Michigan, with my ridiculous income (to me $45K would be fabulously rich!). We manage. In California I\u2019d be be cleaning toilets every night, working 80 hours a week.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

The poorer person has less temptation to idolatry of materialism or greed, obviously, but then the devil introduces class envy and bitterness and felt injustice (not to mention sloth in some cases), and those are killers as well.<\/p>\n

I still think riches are more problematic, though. Jesus warned a lot more about that, than vice versa. But yes, the devil attacks every state of life; gets in there somehow: the tyranny of the \u201cgrass is greener\u201d and all that. We just can\u2019t live our lives either ignoring others totally or being jealous and envious of them. We gotta live for God and follow His calling on our lives.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

\u201cand [Catholic Answers] even [has] the nerve to put out a \u201cemergency\u201d call for donations,\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

That is standard practice in almost all fundraising appeals. It\u2019s done because it works, and the tendency (similar to sales pitches in general) is to exaggerate and make out like Chicken Little. People respond to that every time.<\/p>\n

My upcoming fundraiser (next Tuesday, until I raise what I need) is a bit funny and different in this respect. I will simply say that my funds are exhausted, because of my unique \/ odd \u201csituation\u201d of receiving most of my income just twice a year (in book royalties). That\u2019s the fact. It\u2019s gone right now, after I pay my house bill. I used to be able to get by, month by month. Since Obama and losing my part-time job at Coming Home Network as a result of his lamebrain policies (their donations drastically decreased), I cannot now, despite 40 (!) books and the endless work I have put into my apostolate, lo these 17 years (the last nearly 12, full-time).<\/p>\n

But at the same time I\u2019ll never say that \u201cif I don\u2019t get x<\/i> amount of dollars it\u2019s all over.\u201d I\u2019m a lifer. I ain\u2019t ever gonna retire unless I go into a coma. I do what I do because I am called to it, with 1000% commitment; it has proven to be fruitful, and God has provided. So yes, I need the money right now (primarily because of the devastation of the economy) but it won\u2019t be raised by appealing to the Almighty \u201ccrisis\u201d \/ impending doom routine. I agree about that; always have.<\/p>\n

It\u2019ll be raised on the basis of whether a person agrees that what I do is of value, and especially if they themselves have benefited from it. I gotta make a living like anyone else. My 2,492 blog papers are available for free, for anyone. Took a lot of time to write all those. Time is money, etc.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

People can have opinions about \u201chow much is too much\u201d but in this entire long thread I\u2019ve yet to see an argument that solidly proves beyond all dispute that a certain income is \u201ctoo much\u201d and amounts to \u201cmaterial greed.\u201d<\/p>\n

The problem I have is people saying, \u201cthat is too much!\u201d Then when I probe and ask for the reasoning as to why<\/i> they think so, I don\u2019t feel that I have received an adequate answer all day long, bouncing this topic back and forth. It\u2019s usually (in my opinion) a mere feeling, sometimes class envy, and sometimes a double standard, where any other profession can engage in unbridled free enterprise, entrepreneurial capitalism, but if a lay Catholic worker makes a little money, then that is a huge scandal, even though they have taken no vow of poverty, and usually have families to support.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/199","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=199"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/199\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3961"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=199"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=199"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=199"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}