{"id":20081,"date":"2018-06-15T15:33:06","date_gmt":"2018-06-15T19:33:06","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=20081"},"modified":"2018-06-15T15:33:06","modified_gmt":"2018-06-15T19:33:06","slug":"catholic-church-vs-the-bible-exchange-w-protestant","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/06\/catholic-church-vs-the-bible-exchange-w-protestant.html","title":{"rendered":"Catholic Church vs. the Bible? Exchange w Protestant"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

This comment from \u201cAsh\u201d was underneath my National Catholic Register<\/em> article, \u201cDid Luther Rescue the Bible in German from Utter Obscurity?\u201d<\/a>:<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

The historical record is very clear on the fact that the Catholic Church very pointedly did not want people to read the Bible in the vernacular. Before the printing press, this was not a huge problem, as it was the work of years to make a copy of the Bible. However, even then the church was opposed to people learning about the Bible in their own language.<\/p>\n

In 1079, Vratislaus, the Duke of Bohemia, wanted to use Slavonic in local church services. He petitioned Pope Gregory VII on this. The response from the pope? \u201cWe cannot in any way grant this petition. It is evident to those who consider the matter carefully, that it has pleased God to make Holy Scripture obscure in certain places lest, if it were perfectly clear to all, it might be vulgarized and subjected to disrespect or be so misunderstood by people of limited intelligence as to lead them into error.\u201d In other words, if people read the Bible they\u2019d misunderstand it. In point of fact, though, we see that when people read the Bible for themselves, that they found out that the Church had been blatantly lying to them for centuries.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

You managed to completely avoid all of the evidence I gave to the contrary, and put the usual cynical slant on it. But let\u2019s look at what you bring up (I won\u2019t treat your comment as you treated my article). A comment on a Catholic Answers forum thread from three years ago noted:<\/p>\n

His actual reason for trying to stop it is clear within the statement. Lay people were often quite uneducated at the time. There was a legitimate concern that some of these people would have significant trouble interpreting the Scriptures for themselves. Even today the same concern was addressed in the document Dei Verbum<\/em> [Vatican II]:<\/p>\n

It devolves on sacred bishops who have the apostolic teaching (7) to give the faithful entrusted to them suitable instruction in the right use of the divine books, especially the New Testament and above all the Gospels. This can be done through translations of the sacred texts, which are to be provided with the necessary and really adequate explanations so that the children of the Church may safely and profitably become conversant with the Sacred Scriptures and be penetrated with their spirit.<\/p>\n

Notice the emphasis on instruction and explanations. And the reason: So that the children of the Lord may SAFELY and PROFITABLY come to know the scripture.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

But there were different historical trends at different times, too, as we would expect. Thus, the great Protestant biblical scholar F. F. Bruce observed, in his book, The Origin of the Bible<\/em><\/a>:\u00a0\u201cEven as late as the birth of the Slavonic version in the mid-ninth century, popes Adrian II (867-872) and John VIII (872-882) endorsed the project.\u201d<\/p>\n

And of course, as soon as Protestants gained power in any given locality, Catholic works and Bibles were usually banned. So even insofar as this is a legitimate criticism of the Catholic Church, it applies, as usual, to Protestants, too, with even more hypocrisy, since they were the ones saying the Bible is clear and perspicuous to one and all, even the plowboy, and that only Scripture was infallible.\u00a0I recently provided an overview of massive early Protestant censorship and double standards<\/a>.<\/p>\n

It\u2019s also true that for several centuries in Europe (including, I believe, the 11th century), Latin was virtually a universal language, so that everyone who could read at all, read Latin. Thus, there was less practical need for vernacular versions. As diverse languages developed in Europe, in the High Middle Ages, there was more need for different translations, and these were provided, with Church approval: which was the central point of my article: showing how Luther flat-out lied about the history of the previous 60 or so years since the printing press made it a lot easier (and cheaper) to produce Bibles, or any literature at all for the masses.<\/p>\n

We can say these things till we are blue in the face, but if a person is determined at all costs to be prejudiced against the Catholic Church, mere reason can\u2019t break through that shell. My writings are only effective with folks who have an open mind and are willing to go wherever the evidence leads.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

(10-31-17 [500th anniversary of the start of the so-called \u201cReformation\u201d!])<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong> uploaded by Paul K on 11-27-11.\u00a0The 14th century Anjou Bible, was produced at the court of Robert I of Anjou, King of Naples. It eventually fell into oblivion until 2008<\/span> [Flickr<\/a> \/ CC BY 2.0<\/a> license]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This comment from \u201cAsh\u201d was underneath my National Catholic Register article, \u201cDid Luther Rescue the Bible in German from Utter Obscurity?\u201d: \u00a0 The historical record is very clear on the fact that the Catholic Church very pointedly did not want people to read the Bible in the vernacular. Before the printing press, this was not […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":20084,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[31],"tags":[537,534,542,540,539,535,536,538,541],"class_list":["post-20081","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-bible-and-tradition","tag-catholic-church-and-scripture","tag-catholic-church-and-the-bible","tag-chained-bibles","tag-english-bible","tag-german-bible","tag-holy-bible","tag-sacred-scripture","tag-vernacular-bible-translations","tag-vulgate"],"yoast_head":"\nCatholic Church vs. the Bible? Exchange w Protestant<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"As soon as Protestants controlled any area, they would usually ban any Catholic Bible. 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Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Catholic Church vs. the Bible? Exchange w Protestant","description":"As soon as Protestants controlled any area, they would usually ban any Catholic Bible. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. 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