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<\/p>\n
I received the following letter:<\/p>\n
We are Anglican, and looking very deeply into the Catholic church. There is one matter that troubles me which I hope you will be able to clarify for me.<\/p>\n
I ordered Knowing Mary Through the Bible<\/em>, a DVD series by Ted Sri, and have been watching it. At one point, Dr. Sri makes the point that Jesus will not refuse Mary\u2019s requests, and the text he uses to support this is 1 Kings 2: 17-20, in which Bathsheba makes a request of Solomon. Dr. Sri ends his reading of the passage with Solomon saying to his mother, the Queen, \u201cI will not refuse you.\u201d<\/p>\n
But that\u2019s not what Solomon does: in fact, he does<\/em><\/strong> refuse her the request; not only does he not give Adonijah the wife he desires, as Bathsheba has asked, but Solomon has Adonijah put to death! If you are going to use this text with regard to Jesus and Mary, you would conclude that He most certainly can refuse her requests, \u00adnot that He always fulfills them.<\/p>\n
What troubles me is that Dr. Sri (and also Scott Hahn, in Hail, Holy Queen<\/em>) does not tell the whole story with this text. They leave out the conclusion of the story, \u00adnamely, that the Queen Mother\u2019s request is denied. They end with verse 20, instead of reading through to verse 25 and dealing with the fact that Solomon does not fulfill Bathsheba\u2019s request. I sent an email to Dr. Hahn, but never received a reply. I was not sure how to contact Dr. Sri, and then I thought of you. Doesn\u2019t their use of this text to support Mary\u2019s influence over Christ seem rather disingenuous?<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
Here is my reply:<\/p>\n
I think this is a valid objection and concern on your part. Sri and Hahn would have been wise, I think, to have dealt with this additional factor. I took a look at the relevant passage in Scott Hahn\u2019s book via the Amazon Online Reader. I don\u2019t know why they did not, though I am very slow to accuse anyone of being disingenuous.<\/p>\n
My friend, Catholic apologist Steve Ray wrote a 30-page treatise on the Queen Mother<\/a> and he did<\/em> deal with this aspect of the story. Here\u2019s what he wrote. It is sufficient to answer the objection, I think:<\/p>\n
The Objection:<\/p>\n
\u201cOne did, and it was unusual, and she did not obtain from her son what she wished.\u201d<\/p>\n
My Response:<\/p>\n
. . . If the kings of Judah had wives for queens, like other nations, then we would have no analogy, but the fact that it might be so unusual, makes it all the more stunning. That the kings in the ancestral line of Jesus had mothers for queens is all the more appropriate that Jesus continue this \u201cunusual practice\u201d and make his mother the queen according to the same pattern of his predecessors.<\/p>\n
One cannot<\/em> <\/strong>deny that Solomon, the Son of David who sat on the throne of his father David \u2014 Solomon did<\/em><\/strong> have his mother for a queen. And he did<\/em><\/strong> set up the throne for her at his right hand. If it is unusual, it only makes my case all the stronger.<\/p>\n
One cannot<\/em> <\/strong> deny that Jesus sits on the throne of his father Solomon. Jesus is the ultimate Son of David who sits on the throne of David (and Solomon) and it would not be unbiblical or irrational or astounding to think that Jesus would do for his mother what Solomon did for his. . . .<\/p>\n
. . . He says \u201cshe did not obtain from her son what she wished\u201d as if that proved there could not be a Queen Mother. I remember my dad telling me that Mary could not be the queen of heaven \u2014 using the same argument \u2014 because Bathsheba did not get the request she asked for. I guess my question to that is \u201cSo what, what does that prove?\u201d<\/p>\n
Solomon was a type of Christ even though he was a sinner. Bathsheba was also a sinner. She asked for something unwise and Solomon refused. Just because Bathsheba asked for something unwise and it was not granted to her by her son Solomon, it does not mean she didn\u2019t have the office of Queen Mother. It simply means she was unwise and didn\u2019t receive her request.<\/p>\n
Mary is not unwise and would not ask for something inappropriate. But even if she did (for the sake of argument), it would not invalidate the position of Queen Mother, or prove that she was not in heaven as the queen.<\/p>\n
But didn\u2019t Solomon reject his mother\u2019s request? Yes, he did. But that in no way detracts from the fact that this office existed anymore than the presence of false prophets proves that prophets did not exist. It should be noted that all three parties, Adonijah (v. 17), Bathsheba (v. 18), and Solomon (v. 20), believed that because Bathsheba was the Queen Mother that she could intercede on others\u2019 behalf with the reasonable expectation of a favorable answer. No one\u2019s sensibilities are shocked by Bathsheba\u2019s actions. The negative answer does not invalidate the fact that Bathsheba could ask and that there was an expectation that whatever was asked would receive a favorable hearing.<\/p>\n
. . . For example, one may say that the Queen Mothers were terrible sinners and therefore how could Mary be seen as a Queen Mother? This is a terrible argument.<\/p>\n
First, whether or not office holders are sinners is irrelevant to whether an office exists. Indeed, an evil office holder may lower the prestige of an office, but it doesn\u2019t invalid[ate] it any more than a bad president proves that the office of president doesn\u2019t exist. We\u2019ve seen that in our lifetime, unfortunately.<\/p>\n
Second, the objector assumes that this argument is typological, which it is not. It is analogical. But even if it were a typological argument (which it is not), Mary would be the antitype to Bathsheba by opposition, which is one of the most common anti-typical fulfillments in the Bible. But since this is a[n] argument from the analogy of the institution, it doesn\u2019t matter who the particular office-holder was as long as it was the king\u2019s mother.<\/p>\n
God, in his providential care, guided the Old Covenant people to develop certain institutions so that when Christ came, we would, by analogy, have something to help understand Him and his Mission, his office and his Church. For example, the Old Covenant has the institution of the priesthood so that we may understand, by analogy, Christ\u2019s priesthood and how it relates to us and our redemption. Despite the fact that there were false prophets, sinful priests and evil kings in the Old Testament the institutions themselves aid us in understanding Christ, His relationship to God, and his relationship to everyone else since he is the true prophet, priest and king.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
In a nutshell, Steve is arguing for the office of the Queen Mother, which is firmly established in Scripture, as analogous to Mary as Queen of Heaven. It\u2019s an analogy, but (like many are) an imperfect one, because Bathsheba (being a sinner like the rest of us, and once an adulteress) would not always ask for the right thing, whereas Mary (being sinless and perfected in heaven and rather unique and exalted among creatures) would. The analogy is to the office, not every single jot and tittle.<\/p>\n
It\u2019s like arguing for the office of the papacy by the original example of Peter, and the prototype that he provided in the Bible. The office of the papacy is not at all \u2014 not in the slightest \u2014 undermined because Peter betrayed Jesus, or because he was once rebuked by Jesus, saying \u201cget behind me Satan,\u201d or because Paul rebuked him for hypocrisy. Nor does this undermine papal infallibility, which is a limited charism, and not directly connected with whether the particular pope involved is a sinner or not.<\/p>\n
Likewise, biblical inspiration is not undermined because God used sinners to write His inspired Bible (murderers like Moses, David, and Paul, and betrayers and wimps like Peter; former despised tax collectors like Matthew). The \u201coffice\u201d of Scripture writer, in other words, was not rendered null and void because sinners occupied it.<\/p>\n
Another similar imperfect analogy would be King David (the adulterer and murderer) as a type, shadow, or forerunner of the Messiah, Jesus. This is a clear Scriptural motif in the prophets (Is 9:6-7; Jer 23:5-6; 30:9; Ezek 34:23-24; 37:24-25; Zech 12:8; cf. Luke 1:31-33,68-69). I thought of this just now, but Steve also alluded to it on p. 24:<\/p>\n
The New Testament applies the institution of Davidic Kingship to Jesus. He is the true Son of David and one who is greater than Solomon. As I mentioned in point one, by this institution we can better understand Jesus, His mission and His relationship to others. Therefore, the Jewish understanding of the King, with his courts, officers and mission provides us with a biblical insight into how Jesus is as Messiah-King and what he might do as the Messiah-King.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n
I trust that this answers your objection. I think an open airing of such things is important and worthwhile for apologetic \/ educational purposes, so that a lot more people can see how the objection can be answered from the Catholic perspective (whether sufficiently or not is for the reader to judge).<\/p>\n
***<\/p>\n
(originally 9-5-08)<\/p>\n
Photo credit:<\/strong>\u00a0Coronation of the Virgin<\/i> (1504), by Raphael (1483-1520)<\/a> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n
***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Is 1 Kings 2:17-25 a Fatal Counter-Example? (with Steve Ray) I received the following letter: We are Anglican, and looking very deeply into the Catholic church. There is one matter that troubles me which I hope you will be able to clarify for me. I ordered Knowing Mary Through the Bible, a DVD series by […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":21349,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[45],"tags":[6004,2357,508,550,677,2356,680,2582,507,4491,2688,6001,5998,681,2385,504],"class_list":["post-21346","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-blessed-virgin-mary","tag-bathsheba","tag-blessed-virgin-mary","tag-catholic-mariology","tag-marian-devotion","tag-marian-doctrines","tag-mariology","tag-mary-mother-of-jesus","tag-mediatrix","tag-mother-of-god","tag-queen-mother","tag-queen-of-heaven","tag-solomon","tag-steve-ray","tag-theotokos","tag-veneration-of-mary","tag-virgin-mary"],"yoast_head":"\n
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Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Mary as the \"Queen Mother\" and \"Queen of Heaven\"","description":"An objection from Scripture to Mary as the Queen Mother \/ Queen of Heaven was raised, and I and (primarily) Steve Ray answered it. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21346","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=21346"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/21346\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/21349"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=21346"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=21346"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=21346"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}