{"id":2206,"date":"2015-08-14T19:02:43","date_gmt":"2015-08-14T23:02:43","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=2206"},"modified":"2017-05-21T17:52:50","modified_gmt":"2017-05-21T21:52:50","slug":"you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html","title":{"rendered":"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"color: #141823; text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/MassPontifical.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-2208 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/MassPontifical.jpg\" alt=\"MassPontifical\" width=\"450\" height=\"585\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823; text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #252525;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Pontifical Mass, from a Missal of the Fifteenth Century.<\/span> [<a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Pontifical_Mass_-_15th_Century_-_Project_Gutenberg_eText_16531.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">Don\u2019t look down on the one who prefers one way, or the one who prefers the other Mass. The Church sanctions both (Pope Benedict XVI: <em>Summorum Pontificum<\/em>\u00a0\u2013 2007). Isn\u2019t freedom of worship wonderful?<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">Veils are beautiful. Someone wants to wear one? Great! If not (like my wife and daughter), great! Don\u2019t look down on the one who does, or the one who doesn\u2019t. The Church permits both. Isn\u2019t true toleration (not mere fashionable lip service) wonderful?<\/p>\n<p>You receive Holy Communion on the tongue, kneeling (as I do?). Great! You receive it standing, in the hand? Great! The latter was the consensus practice in most of the early Church for some six centuries (as I have researched).<\/p>\n<p>Etc., etc.<\/p>\n<p>I\u2019m sort of in-between, as my (quite unique) parish offers Latin Mass in a very traditional way in all respects; yet it is <em>Novus Ordo<\/em> \/ ordinary form. \u00a0But that\u2019s beside my present point, which is about accepting the Mind of the Church: expressed through Pope Benedict and ceasing to play the \u201csuperiority game.\u201d\u00a0<span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$text0:0\">What I\u2019ve consistently said when these sorts of \u201cus vs. them\u201d issues come up, is that reverence and piety ultimately derive from God\u2019s grace and<em>\u00a0each person\u2019s heart and soul<\/em>, per the Sermon on the Mount.<\/span><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$text1:0\"><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$text3:0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$text4:0\">There are plenty of people who look down on the \u201cother\u201d Mass, from both directions. I\u2019ve seen it countless times. We ought to condemn all prejud<\/span><\/span><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273267:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text0:0\">ices of this sort.\u00a0<span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$text0:0\">The Church allows and sanctions both, so we can worship as we please. If someone prefers one over the other, then they go there, and vice versa. What good is accomplished by a sustained discussion of \u201cyour dad [e<\/span><\/span><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text0:0\">r Mass] is uglier than mine!\u201d? That establishes an unhelpful \u201ceither\/or\u201d outlook, whereas Catholicism is usually \u201cboth\/and\u201d in approach.<\/span><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text1:0\"><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text3:0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text4:0\">I myself have argued that it\u2019s quite possible to contend\u00a0that one seems to foster more reverence in particular places and times (I\u2019ve argued this way about kneeling for communion, but at the same time deny that standing is intrinsically less reverent).<\/span><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text5:0\"><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text7:0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273284:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text8:0\">But I don\u2019t analyze or assert alleged inherent or intrinsic qualities, as these folks are now, who are starting to say that the reform of the reform has failed. I think that is an alarming development that will bode ill for the future, because it\u2019ll cause division.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.0.$end:0:$text4:0\">What happens if we figure out (however it is done) that one form of the Latin Rite Mass is \u201cobjectively superior\u201d to the other? People still have the right to worship as they please. Why must we determine that,<\/span><\/span><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text0:0\">\u00a0as opposed to each person deciding for themselves which Mass to attend?<\/span><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text1:0\"><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text3:0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text4:0\">The only tangible difference would be to ban one form, or to reverse the ordinary \/ extraordinary classification. The latter idea is interesting, but at this point, it doesn\u2019t seem possible, given the relative numbers of preference.<\/span><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text5:0\"><br data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text7:0\"><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text8:0\">\u201cTraditionalists\u201d habitually talk about the superiority of the TLM \/ EF, but us regular old \u201cCatholics\u201d (i.e., non-trads) do not usually think in those terms, and we think this sort of reasoning fosters division in fact or potentially. Why? Well, because in human nature, if it is established that<em> x<\/em> is better than <em>y<\/em>, then those who like <em>x<\/em> are usually gonna tend to look down on the <em>y<\/em>-advocates as inferior or kind of dumb, because they don\u2019t get what is so \u201capparent\u201d or \u201cclear\u201d to the <em>x<\/em>-proponent.\u00a0<\/span><span data-reactid=\".51.1:5:1:$comment740251636009824_95273400:0.0.$right.0.$left.0.0.1.$comment-body.0.3.0.$end:0:$text12:0\">And the <em>y<\/em>-proponent will then tend to regard the <em>x<\/em>-proponent as spiritually prideful or condescending. I\u2019ve seen<em> lots<\/em>\u00a0of this in fact, from both directions.<\/span><\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p>Pope Benedict has already wisely given us (eight years ago now) the<em> solution<\/em> to these games and cliques and unCatholic \u201ceither\/or\u201d mentalities, if only we will <em>heed<\/em> his sage advice. This is why we have popes, and the loving guidance of Holy Mother Church. They <em>shepherd<\/em> us. I like to say: \u201clive and let live, and worship and let worship.\u201d Or there is the old Sly and the Family Stone song (now I reveal that I am a Baby Boomer): \u201cDifferent strokes for different folks . . . \u201d (<em>Everyday People<\/em>).<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pontifical Mass, from a Missal of the Fifteenth Century. [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] Don\u2019t look down on the one who prefers one way, or the one who prefers the other Mass. The Church sanctions both (Pope Benedict XVI: Summorum Pontificum\u00a0\u2013 2007). Isn\u2019t freedom of worship wonderful? Veils are beautiful. Someone wants to wear one? [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":2208,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[58],"tags":[68,70,66,67,74,72,69,71,73,65],"class_list":["post-2206","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-eucharist-liturgy","tag-extraordinary-form","tag-latin-mass","tag-latin-rite","tag-ordinary-form","tag-radical-catholic-reactionaries","tag-rigorism","tag-tlm","tag-traditional-liturgy","tag-traditionalism","tag-tridentine-mass"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"&quot;Live and let live, worship &amp; let worship.&quot; &quot;Different strokes for different folks&quot; The ordinary form &amp; extraordinary form of the Latin Mass are both great.\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"&quot;Live and let live, worship &amp; let worship.&quot; &quot;Different strokes for different folks&quot; The ordinary form &amp; extraordinary form of the Latin Mass are both great.\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2015-08-14T23:02:43+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:modified_time\" content=\"2017-05-21T21:52:50+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/MassPontifical.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"450\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"585\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"3 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html\",\"name\":\"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2015-08-14T23:02:43+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2017-05-21T21:52:50+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"\\\"Live and let live, worship & let worship.\\\" \\\"Different strokes for different folks\\\" The ordinary form & extraordinary form of the Latin Mass are both great.\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/\",\"name\":\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\",\"description\":\"Catholic biblical apologetics\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\",\"name\":\"Dave Armstrong\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dave Armstrong\"},\"description\":\"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!","description":"\"Live and let live, worship & let worship.\" \"Different strokes for different folks\" The ordinary form & extraordinary form of the Latin Mass are both great.","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!","og_description":"\"Live and let live, worship & let worship.\" \"Different strokes for different folks\" The ordinary form & extraordinary form of the Latin Mass are both great.","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2015-08-14T23:02:43+00:00","article_modified_time":"2017-05-21T21:52:50+00:00","og_image":[{"width":450,"height":585,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/08\/MassPontifical.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"3 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html","name":"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website"},"datePublished":"2015-08-14T23:02:43+00:00","dateModified":"2017-05-21T21:52:50+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e"},"description":"\"Live and let live, worship & let worship.\" \"Different strokes for different folks\" The ordinary form & extraordinary form of the Latin Mass are both great.","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/08\/you-prefer-the-tlm-ef-mass-great-you-prefer-novus-ordo-of-like-me-great.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"You Prefer the TLM \/ EF Mass? Great! Or, Ordinary Form (like me)? Great!"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/","name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","description":"Catholic biblical apologetics","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e","name":"Dave Armstrong","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dave Armstrong"},"description":"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2206","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2206"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2206\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2208"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2206"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2206"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2206"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}