I haven\u2019t heard of priests having to marry gay couples against their wills.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\nI haven\u2019t made that argument. But it very well may soon be an issue of attempted coercion, the way things are rapidly going. And we Catholics (who actually accept Church teachings) will resist and will not<\/em><\/strong>\u00a0(in accordance with our deeply-held beliefs) call evil good.<\/span><\/p>\nThat\u2019s not going to happen, and I think you know that. I think it has been ruled time and time again, the only bastion for discrimination is within the Church, so I believe you are safe there.<\/span><\/p>\nI don\u2019t \u201cknow\u201d that at all. Many stranger things have happened. Christians used to be eaten by lions in Rome, for entertainment.<\/span><\/p>\nI don\u2019t expect that anytime soon, but I could see real pressure being put on Catholics as the retrograde Troglodytes, as proclaimed by the superior \u201cProgressive\u201d Society: the folks who have ushered in our manifest Utopia that we have now: as soon as this faction becomes powerful enough in numbers and influence to do it.<\/span><\/p>\nRepression and discrimination starts in prior attitudes and widespread feelings. We see how Christians are widely regarded by atheists now: even in my own threads at Patheos<\/em>. Many utterly despise us. That sort of derision can easily translate into discrimination, coercion, and possibly at some point, outright persecution.<\/span><\/p>\nHistory often repeats itself. Since it is getting to the point where we have fewer and fewer moral disagreements with pagan Rome, its entirely conceivable that we could be treated as they treated the early Christians for almost 300 years.<\/span><\/p>\nWho would have thought in the age of Goethe and Beethoven, that Germany would exterminate many millions of Jews, Poles, and others (many of them Catholics) a little over 100 years later? Things can change very quickly. And that whole mess started, of course, with a massive propaganda campaign: mocking and slandering Jewish people.<\/span><\/p>\nWe saw how quickly the \u201cenlightened\u201d fanatics in revolutionary France started killing people and attacking the Catholic Church (per my photo and caption above). Likewise, the Spanish revolutionaries in the 30s killed Catholics and attacked churches and statues of Christ, etc. Henry VIII switched on a dime in the 1530s and started wantonly slaughtering Catholics (often by hanging, drawing, and quartering). Christians (again, Catholics) are being slaughtered by the thousands right now in Syria, Iraq, the Sudan, and many other countries. The Russian Communists went right after the Orthodox priests, after 1917 (not far different from us in theology). We are often the target, because we don\u2019t change with the whims and fashions and fads of the zeitgeist<\/em>. That makes us become mightily unpopular.<\/span><\/p>\nSo if radical secularists keep gaining more power, it\u2019s quite likely that they\u2019ll be coming after us with force and coercion, in some way (possibly even to the shedding of blood, in due course). It\u2019s already starting.<\/span><\/p>\nWhat have you been forced to do? You can worship where you want. Pray where you want. You can not be imprisoned, taxed, or infringed on by the government.<\/span><\/p>\nThe places where you feel your rights are being violated is when you tried to push your beliefs on someone else. To tell them who they can or can not marry, to put your icons in public places where diversity should be respected (different religious beliefs), and to influence or control government to pass pro-Christian laws (In God We Trust\/Under God).<\/span><\/p>\nYou are right. Since the cold war, the advent of Internet technology allows people to not be so shut off from other beliefs and cultures. I would say there is more conversion now than there ever has been (in all directions, between religions and to and from Atheism). There is also an increase in those that do not identify with religion.<\/span><\/p>\nOur culture is changing. Christianity does not have a hold of the American heart and soul anymore. This does not make your belief irrelevant, you just don\u2019t have the leeway you may be used to in influencing public ethics.<\/span><\/p>\nAmerica has been a secular nation for at least 50 years. We live in a moral sewer now. Everything\u2019s going to hell in a handbasket, due to the wholesale rejection of legal and moral and religious tradition.<\/span><\/p>\nNo one need take my biased word for that. The sociological statistics (non-Christian studies) are clear, and polls show a high percentage who think the country has gone awry and is headed in a disastrous direction. Families and marriages are broken and lives destroyed due to liberal radicalism, the sexual revolution, and the failed Great Society policies.<\/span><\/p>\nIt\u2019s time to give moral tradition a try again.<\/span><\/p>\nWell, I disagree that it has been secular for only that long (legally), but that is for a different discussion.<\/span><\/p>\nIf you look back over the history of the US, we abolished slavery, we treat women as equals in the eyes of the law, and we are more diverse than we have ever been.<\/span><\/p>\n\u2026 and we are going the wrong direction? I can see your point if you are going by the Bible\u2019s standards. I mean, by the Bible\u2019s rights we should be able to own slaves, sell off our daughters, treat women like property, stone gays and unruly children to death and treat anything that isn\u2019t Hebrew like it is the plague.<\/span><\/p>\nYeah\u2026. I can see how \u201clow\u201d we have gotten.<\/span><\/p>\nI agree that treatment of black people and women has improved greatly. Christians were in the forefront of both those movements; whether you look at early women\u2019s rights advocates, like Susan B. Anthony, or the abolitionists or Lincoln, or Martin Luther King (Baptist pastor). So that ain\u2019t \u201csecular\u201d stuff. It was mostly Christian-inspired.<\/span><\/p>\nThey are treated much better (thank God). Meanwhile, 55 million babies have been murdered in their mother\u2019s wombs. So what good is it overall if we learn to treat two large groups better and mercilessly slaughter exponentially more human beings before they see the light of day?<\/span><\/p>\nYou say that is \u201cprogress\u201d and \u201cenlightenment\u201d and tolerance? I say it is a moral sewer, making us the most wicked nation in the history of the world (as I have argued for 14 years now).<\/span><\/p>\nNor is that merely \u201cBible standards.\u201d Opposition to abortion goes back at least as far as the Hippocratic Oath, in pagan Greece, before Christianity existed.<\/span><\/p>\nChristians can come up with \u201csecular stuff\u201d. Some things fall in line with religious thinking, some things don\u2019t, some things have nothing to do with religion.<\/span><\/p>\nI believe, based on the Bible, that someone could make a religious argument supporting the right to own slaves. Read up on the creation of the Southern Baptist Church.<\/span><\/p>\nI don\u2019t agree with the fallacy that \u201c55 million babies have been murdered..\u201d, as they have to be defined as a baby for that statistic to make any sense. Repeating it over and over doesn\u2019t change the definition.<\/span><\/p>\nWe have terms for the stages of pregnancy and the development towards what will someday be a baby. Words like embryo, and fetus. While I understand your position, the question of when life starts is a controversial one. So you can not make me feel guilty for abortions that 1. I did not take part in. 2. Is not my body. 3. Is not defined as a living person in my eyes (more like a growing organ\/attachment of the mother).<\/span><\/p>\nI only list that not to argue the position, but to show there is a obvious argument that opposes yours, so you can not make it a blanket statement that we live in an immoral society. There are TONS of things I would like to see better from my point of view and you can work towards making changes you feel are right, but you really shouldn\u2019t demonize everyone that disagrees with you.<\/span><\/p>\nStrange how 50 years ago the U.S. changed the country\u2019s motto to \u201cIn God We Trust\u201d, and added the words \u201cUnder God\u201d to the Pledge of Allegiance. According to you, ever since then, the country has gone downhill !!!<\/span><\/p>\nYes it has, by any conceivable moral or sociological standard. We live in a hellhole now. You want to go into inner-city Detroit, where I grew up (or any inner-city of a large city) and tell me that things aren\u2019t far<\/em>\u00a0worse than they were 50 years ago?<\/span><\/p>\nThese things are self-evident. You may defend abortion, but you won\u2019t defend a young black boy or girl being gunned down in broad daylight by some evil person passing by (almost always, statistically, another black person).<\/span><\/p>\n\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"\u00a018th century caricature-engraving of Robespierre guillotining the executioner after having guillotined everyone else in France. [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] The \u201cenlightened\u201d so-called\u201dprogressive\u201d folks\u00a0who supposedly worshiped the \u201cgoddess of reason\u201d executed many Catholics, including, e.g., Antoine Lavoisier, the father of chemistry\u00a0(no luxurious house arrest for him, as with\u00a0Galileo). Who\u2019s to say this couldn\u2019t happen again […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":2756,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124,289],"tags":[357,359,348,358,346,344,353,349,343,352,356,345,350,351,355,354,347],"class_list":["post-2755","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","category-political-ethical-moral-issues","tag-bill-of-rights","tag-conscience","tag-english-reformation","tag-freedom-of-conscience","tag-french-revolution","tag-government-coercion","tag-liberalism","tag-nazi-holocaust","tag-persecution","tag-progressivism","tag-religious-freedom","tag-secularism","tag-secularization","tag-sexual-revolution","tag-social-darwinism","tag-socialism","tag-spanish-civil-war"],"yoast_head":"\n
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Armstrong\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dave Armstrong\"},\"description\":\"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2755","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=2755"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/2755\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/2756"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=2755"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=2755"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=2755"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}
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