{"id":30490,"date":"2019-03-07T17:38:14","date_gmt":"2019-03-07T21:38:14","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=30490"},"modified":"2019-03-07T17:38:14","modified_gmt":"2019-03-07T21:38:14","slug":"mini-debate-on-libertarianism-and-laws-about-sex","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/03\/mini-debate-on-libertarianism-and-laws-about-sex.html","title":{"rendered":"Mini-Debate on Libertarianism and Laws About Sex"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

This was with Tony Jiang: a non-Christian, and took place spontaneously on my Facebook page<\/a> today. His words will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n

*****<\/p>\n

It\u2019s anti-traditional secularism, sexual \u201cfreedom\u201d, and head-in-the-sand Marxist drivel that drives the Democrat Party.<\/p>\n

Yes, because Christian fundies think controlling people\u2019s most private affairs is freedom.<\/span><\/p>\n

Can you elaborate? I don\u2019t know how this applies to my point, and\/or the [linked] article<\/a>.<\/p>\n

I\u2019m not a \u201cfundamentalist\u201d; never have been. I\u2019m an orthodox Catholic and political conservative.<\/p>\n

You mentioned about sexual freedom, did you not?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yep: supposed<\/em> \u201cfreedom.\u201d Freedom to sin and ruin one\u2019s life is not truly freedom.<\/p>\n

Then religious freedom is not real \u201cfreedom\u201d; as well all alcohol and tobacco should be banned under this logic.<\/span><\/p>\n

How about banning rape and pedophilia and other sexual abuse? Do you think those are good<\/em> laws? Do they abridge the \u201cfreedom\u201d of the pedophiles and rapists? How about laws against suicide?<\/p>\n

That\u2019s a false equivalency. Laws against suicide are literally unenforceable unless you can bring the dead back to life.<\/span><\/p>\n

How about banning rape and pedophilia and other sexual abuse? Do you think those are good<\/em> laws? Do they abridge the \u201cfreedom\u201d of the pedophiles and rapists?<\/p>\n

To somehow equate homosexuality with rape or paedophilia is one of the most insane fundamentalist dribble on this earth.<\/span><\/p>\n

I didn\u2019t do that. Please answer my questions. Thanks.<\/p>\n

Rapists and paedophiles have no right to attack the freedom of others.<\/span><\/p>\n

Good. So you have acknowledged our underlying principle<\/em>. We go on to say that no woman has a \u201cright\u201d to kill the person in her womb and attack his or her freedom to have a life at all. We simply believe in more restrictions on behavior than liberals do. They believe the same thing: just in fewer cases<\/em>.<\/p>\n

You demand small government and then demand restrictions for behaviour. Can\u2019t have both.<\/span><\/p>\n

Government and laws have always restricted behavior. That is the very nature of law. Every law restricts someone from doing something.<\/p>\n

Except you are demanding small government and at the same time demanding more restrictions in behaviour.<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes; so what? As I said, every law there is restricts someone from doing what they would do if it weren\u2019t illegal. The only question is the extent and scope of such laws. You have agreed that at least some sexual activity ought to be forbidden by law.<\/p>\n

What you seem to be spouting is libertarianism, which I would argue is fundamentally contrary to Christianity<\/a>.<\/p>\n

Are you some kind of Christian? Do you vote for Democrats and thus give your approval to babykilling and the radical redefinition of marriage to include same-sex couples?<\/p>\n

What I am spouting is the rhetoric of the American Republican Party. Aren\u2019t they the conservative party? Always talking about how the government is restricting your freedom . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Almost all Republicans are pro-life and pro-traditional marriage, and 90% support President Trump. There are libertarian elements in it, too, unfortunately.<\/p>\n

You can\u2019t restrict behaviour while demanding small government because who is going to enforce those restrictions? Your local warlord militia?<\/span><\/p>\n

We\u2019re just going round and round now and you aren\u2019t grappling with the issues I have brought up. Are you a Christian? What kind?<\/p>\n

No. I [was] just reading your eternal back and forth with James White and his friends.<\/span><\/p>\n

You\u2019re not a Christian?<\/p>\n

No.<\/span><\/p>\n

Then you would likely vote liberal . . .<\/p>\n

Marriage once and still in certain places included polygamy or polyandry. But same sex marriage is some how too extreme?<\/span><\/p>\n

Yes, because, from the Catholic and traditional Christian understanding, it is anti-procreation, thus corrupting the most essential, fundamental purpose of marriage: producing children.<\/p>\n

But you are still cool with big government right?<\/span><\/p>\n

I think the size of federal government should be reduced as much as possible. I believe in subsidiarity and solidarity: Catholic social principles.<\/p>\n

Also from what I can tell the average Republican in places like New York or California simply doesn\u2019t care too much about homosexuality; yet you assert that almost all Republicans are pro traditional marriage.<\/span><\/p>\n

Of course: the east and western coasts of America are very liberal, so we would expect to see such moral degeneration. They\u2019re more secularized.<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Photo credit:<\/strong> Signal Corps,\u00a0US Army (June or July 1944): Ruins of the Marigny church during the battle of Normandy<\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

This was with Tony Jiang: a non-Christian, and took place spontaneously on my Facebook page today. His words will be in blue. ***** It\u2019s anti-traditional secularism, sexual \u201cfreedom\u201d, and head-in-the-sand Marxist drivel that drives the Democrat Party. Yes, because Christian fundies think controlling people\u2019s most private affairs is freedom. Can you elaborate? I don\u2019t know […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":30493,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[289,123],"tags":[1015,1021,7999,7993,8005,1022,1023,7996,8002,3051,3050],"class_list":["post-30490","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-political-ethical-moral-issues","category-sexuality-and-gender-issues","tag-catholic-social-teaching","tag-conservatism","tag-government","tag-law","tag-laws","tag-libertarian","tag-libertarianism","tag-purpose-of-laws","tag-size-of-government","tag-solidarity","tag-subsidiarity"],"yoast_head":"\nMini-Debate on Libertarianism and Laws About Sex<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"All laws restrict someone from doing certain things. The only question is the extent of such laws. 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Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. 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