{"id":32414,"date":"2019-05-03T13:47:09","date_gmt":"2019-05-03T17:47:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=32414"},"modified":"2019-05-05T18:38:37","modified_gmt":"2019-05-05T22:38:37","slug":"bible-men-angels-forgive-sins-as-representatives-of-god","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/05\/bible-men-angels-forgive-sins-as-representatives-of-god.html","title":{"rendered":"Bible: Men & Angels Forgive Sins as Representatives of God"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"\"<\/p>\n

Men<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Leviticus 4:35<\/strong> (RSV) . . .\u00a0and the priest shall burn it on the altar, upon the offerings by fire to the LORD; and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be\u00a0<\/b>forgiven. (cf. 4:20, 26, 31)<\/span><\/p>\n

Leviticus 5:5-6<\/strong>\u00a0When a man is guilty in any of these, he shall confess the sin he has committed, [6] and he shall bring his guilt offering to the LORD for the sin which he has committed, a female from the flock, a lamb or a goat, for a sin offering; and the priest shall make atonement for him for his sin. (cf. 5:10, 13, 16, 18; 6:7)<\/span><\/p>\n

Leviticus 19:22<\/strong> And the priest shall make atonement for him with the ram of the guilt offering before the LORD for his sin which he has committed; and the sin which he has committed shall be forgiven him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Numbers 14:19-20<\/strong>\u00a0[Moses] Pardon the iniquity of this people, I pray thee, according to the greatness of thy steadfast love, and according as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.\u201d\u00a0[20] Then the LORD said, \u201cI have pardoned, according to your word;\u00a0 (cf. Num 15:25, 28)<\/span><\/p>\n

Deuteronomy 21:8<\/strong>\u00a0Forgive, O LORD, thy people Israel, whom thou hast redeemed, and set not the guilt of innocent blood in the midst of thy people Israel; but let the guilt of blood be\u00a0forgiven\u00a0them.\u2019<\/span><\/p>\n

Matthew 18:18<\/strong> Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (cf. 16:19)<\/span><\/p>\n

John 20:23<\/strong> If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.<\/span><\/p>\n

James 5:15<\/strong> and the prayer of faith [by \u201celders\u201d: 5:14] will save the sick man, and the Lord will raise him up; and if he has committed sins, he will be forgiven.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Men Representing Other Men, Who Represent Christ<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

2 Corinthians 2:10<\/strong> Any one whom you forgive, I also forgive. What I have forgiven, if I have forgiven anything, has been for your sake in the presence of Christ,<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

Angels<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Exodus 23:20-21<\/strong> Behold, I send an angel before you, to guard you on the way and to bring you to the place which I have prepared. [21] Give heed to him and hearken to his voice, do not rebel against him, for he will not pardon your transgression; for my name is in him.<\/span><\/p>\n

Isaiah 6:5-7\u00a0<\/strong>And I said: \u201cWoe is me! For I am lost; for I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips; for my eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts!\u201d\u00a0[6]\u00a0Then flew one of the seraphim to me, having in his hand a burning coal which he had taken with tongs from the altar.\u00a0[7] And he touched my mouth, and said: \u201cBehold, this has touched your lips; your guilt is taken away, and your sin forgiven.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n

***<\/p>\n

[Facebook Discussion]<\/span><\/p>\n

Does this stuff harmonize with Lutheran theology, [Lutheran Pastor] Ken [Howes]? Especially the angel passage? I just discovered that one last night, to my delight, in writing one of my magazine articles.\u00a0The \u201cangel of the Lord\u201d is one of the most fascinating things in Scripture. I wrote a lot about that in my next article. It\u2019s always intrigued me, going back more than 30 years.<\/span><\/p>\n

Ken Howes:<\/strong><\/span>\u00a0It certainly does. We have retained auricular confession (it is specifically mentioned in the Augsburg Confession). I\u2019m not sure that our exegesis of these would be identical to yours, but it wouldn\u2019t be too terribly different. Yes, the \u201cangel of the Lord\u201d can be different things in different passages. Sometimes it\u2019s exactly what an angel means in the New Testament; sometimes it\u2019s the Lord Himself; sometimes it\u2019s a prophet.<\/span><\/p>\n

To a considerable extent, Catholics and Protestants talk past each other because the same words can have different meanings. Even between Catholics and Lutherans, who are the Protestants closest to the Catholic tradition doctrinally, these stumbles exist, so it would be a greater problem between Catholics and those Protestants who are farther removed from Catholicism.<\/span><\/p>\n

Absolutely (Reformed being the most difficult to dialogue with, and anti-Catholic Reformed the absolute worst).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n

Many Protestants do not grasp the nature of several common Catholic modes of argumentation (because they don\u2019t use them much; aren\u2019t taught them); particularly analogical arguments and arguments from plausibility or \u201cfittingness\u201d rather than absolute, \u201cdirect\u201d biblical proof. It\u2019s a constant frustration of mine.<\/span><\/p>\n

Analogical arguments can be very helpful. Jesus used them Himself constantly. Arguments from plausibility are a matter of reading Scripture intelligently rather than in a vacuum, and are, as long as the reasoning is sound, legitimate. \u201cFittingness\u201d\u00a0is a less certain basis for doctrine, because not everyone, not all Christians, not always all Catholics, agree what is fitting except as it can show reasonable Biblical support.<\/span><\/p>\n

The specific authority of the Church to forgive sins was given the evening after the Resurrection, John 20:21-23. The Church has conferred that authority on those in the office of ministry, together with the authority to preach and teach in the Church\u2019s name and to administer the Sacraments. Some of those duties can be delegated further, as in the case of emergency baptism and emergency absolution (Augustine: \u201ctwo men in a boat adrift at sea are each other\u2019s confessors\u201d). Others have been held to be reserved to those in the ministry\u2013the celebration of the Communion, the ordination of new pastors, etc.<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

Related Reading:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n

Fictional Dialogue on Penance<\/a>\u00a0[1995]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
\n
\u201cCatholicism Refuted\u201d (?): \u201cFather\u201d \/ Purgatory \/ Statues \/ Confession<\/a>\u00a0(Pt. III) [12-11-04]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Formal Human Forgiveness of Sins in the Bible<\/a>\u00a0[6-10-07]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Vulgate\u2019s \u201cDo Penance\u201d: Exchange w Reformed Protestants<\/a>\u00a0[2-2-08]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Martin Luther on Absolution & Private Confession<\/a>\u00a0[4-14-08]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Examination of Conscience: Biblical (Pauline) Evidence<\/a>\u00a0[7-14-08]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
\n
Sacrament of Penance: Man-Made Tradition? (vs. Calvin #51)<\/a>\u00a0[12-21-09]
\n*<\/div>\n
Temporal Punishment After Forgiveness: Catholicism<\/a>\u00a0(vs. John Calvin)\u00a0[10-18-12]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
The Bible on Confession & Absolution<\/a>\u00a0[2013]<\/div>\n
*<\/div>\n
Confession and Absolution Are Biblical<\/a>\u00a0[National Catholic Register<\/em>, 7-31-17]<\/span>
\n*<\/div>\n
Absolution, Sanctification, & Forgiveness: Reply to Calvin #7<\/a>\u00a0[12-19-18]
\n*<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n

***<\/span><\/p>\n

(originally 7-18-14 on Facebook)<\/span><\/p>\n

Photo credit:\u00a0<\/strong>Jacob Wrestling with the Angel<\/i>, c. 1659, by Rembrandt (1606-1669)<\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Men Leviticus 4:35 (RSV) . . .\u00a0and the priest shall burn it on the altar, upon the offerings by fire to the LORD; and the priest shall make atonement for him for the sin which he has committed, and he shall be\u00a0forgiven. (cf. 4:20, 26, 31) Leviticus 5:5-6\u00a0When a man is guilty in any of […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":32417,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[206],"tags":[1484,8522,1483,8528,1485,3139,8525,200,592,8519,1486,1487],"class_list":["post-32414","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-saints-purgatory-penance","tag-absolution","tag-angels-absolution","tag-confession","tag-forgive-sins","tag-forgiveness","tag-forgiveness-of-sins","tag-men-forgiving-sins-against-others","tag-penance","tag-priests","tag-priests-absolution","tag-repentance","tag-sacrament-of-reconciliation"],"yoast_head":"\nBible: Men & Angels Forgive Sins as Representatives of God<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"The Bible doesn't teach that only God can forgive sins. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32414","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=32414"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/32414\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/32417"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=32414"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=32414"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=32414"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}