{"id":3331,"date":"2015-09-17T18:28:37","date_gmt":"2015-09-17T22:28:37","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=3331"},"modified":"2017-05-20T15:14:31","modified_gmt":"2017-05-20T19:14:31","slug":"dialogue-w-an-atheist-on-evolution","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/09\/dialogue-w-an-atheist-on-evolution.html","title":{"rendered":"Amiable Dialogue with an Atheist on Materialist Evolution"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>

\"Darwin\"<\/a><\/p>\n

Charles Darwin in 1854, at the age of 45; five years before the publication of The Origin of Species<\/em>, which he wrote as a Christian<\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

This occurred in the combox of my post,\u00a0Clarifications\u00a0re:\u00a0Atheist\u00a0\u201cReductio\u201d\u00a0Paper<\/a>., in August 2015. Ben McGrew<\/a>\u2018s words will be in\u00a0blue<\/span>. He conducted himself admirably as a \u201cgentleman and a scholar\u201d the entire time.<\/span><\/p>\n

* * * * *<\/p>\n

Do you believe in evolution like many of your brothers and sisters?<\/span><\/p>\n

If not, then I don\u2019t think there is much more to say on this topic without opening a can of worms.<\/span><\/p>\n

However, if you do, then you have a foundation for seeing complexity arise. At which point we have three things:<\/span><\/p>\n

1) A set of poorly understood forces with testable qualities.<\/span>
\n2) A process by which complexity can develop.<\/span>
\n3) A condition which has been shown could be the direct or indirect result of such a process.<\/span><\/p>\n

The conclusions are either:<\/span><\/p>\n

a) This condition is purely the result of known processes<\/span>
\nb) This condition is purely the result of an unknown process<\/span>
\nc) This condition is the result of some combination of known and unknown processes.<\/span><\/p>\n

If you believe a foreign entity is responsible for everything we can see, that is not incompatible with the belief that everything we see, other than origins, *could reasonably be* the result of a natural process in another setting.<\/span><\/p>\n

For a functional world model to exist, it must be testable and demonstrable. The unique aspects of religious worldviews do not present any reliably predictive models.<\/span><\/p>\n

My possible prerequisites for existence include the possibility of your own axioms, but are not limited by it. Would that not make it definitively *less* faith based?<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019m ultimately agnostic on the whole question. What I do positively believe is that evolution of everything we see is not possible according to the laws of science as we know them. But if God put the potentiality of all this evolution and design into matter, then it would be possible, but still not necessarily understood by a purely [materialistic \/ naturalistic] scientific model. Only theistic evolution would be possible.<\/span><\/p>\n

I believe that God is necessary to explain both the laws of science and evolution and development of the universe and life.<\/span><\/p>\n

Gradual evolution makes more intuitive sense to me than instant special creation of various species, but again, only if God is somehow involved. Materialistic evolution has serious difficulties, either under a gradual, classical Darwinian model or a punctuated equilibrium understanding (per Stephen Jay Gould).<\/span><\/p>\n

In any event, my objection is infinitely more to materialism than to evolution. If the latter is true, it\u2019s a yawner; if it isn\u2019t, I don\u2019t lose any sleep over it. I just think that God (or, Intelligent Design) is a necessary component of the creation of the universe.<\/span><\/p>\n

Which parts of evolution do you feel is incompatible with the known laws of science? My fiance and I have combined degrees in Electrical Engineering and Vector-borne disease Ecology, so I might be able to address some of the common obstacles that arise in these kinds of conversations.<\/span><\/p>\n

The whole process by which new structures are \u201ccreated.\u201d I don\u2019t think random mutations are sufficient to explain that. I\u2019ve always accepted that microevolution is demonstrated. We develop resistance and immunity; animals adapting to their surroundings with various changes, etc. Macroevolution is a different story.<\/span><\/p>\n

Specifically, there are huge unknowns about all this at the cellular level, per the analyses of Michael Behe.<\/span><\/p>\n

To address Michael Behe in particular. He has made a number of claims that have since been satisfactorily refuted, though may not provide all of the answers we\u2019d like.<\/span><\/p>\n

Obviously there will always be aspects of evolution which will require additional study, such is the nature of inspection.<\/span><\/p>\n

Can you address a specific instance of macroevolution that you struggle with?<\/span><\/p>\n

It sounds like you don\u2019t believe \u2018Science is incompatible with Evolution\u2019, a la an apparent contradiction, so much as simply can\u2019t see a complete picture from the pieces, thus conclude there isn\u2019t a picture to be made.<\/span><\/p>\n

Argument from Ignorance, so to speak.<\/span><\/p>\n

If present laws of science can\u2019t explain something, then one should admit that and remain agnostic.<\/span><\/p>\n

I do that regarding macroevolution. It\u2019s no different than what you guys do regarding the origin of the Big Bang and the universe. I\u2019m just being more skeptical and demanding than you are. :-)<\/span><\/p>\n

We just don\u2019t know all the particulars, according to naturalistic science, in very important areas.<\/span><\/p>\n

But the Christian refuses to exclude God from the whole equation.<\/span><\/p>\n

So I say, \u201csure, evolution may very well be true, but at the present state of knowledge, I say that it is only possible through some supra-empirical intervention or initial impetus from God.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

Well, no. That is not really comparable. The \u201claws of science\u201d are thus far entirely compatible with Evolution, we simply don\u2019t have every single detail about our particular path. Thus why Evolution is a \u2018Scientific Theory\u2019.<\/span><\/p>\n

The Big Bang and the universe are explicitly outside<\/em>\u00a0of our scientific laws, thus can not<\/em>\u00a0be determined at this point. That is freely admitted.<\/span><\/p>\n

Saying that anything which we don\u2019t understand must<\/em>\u00a0be due to a deity rather than may<\/em>\u00a0is precisely an argument from ignorance and would prevent us from actually finding any answers.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s not merely a lack of \u201cevery single detail about our particular path.\u201d That\u2019s true of any<\/em>\u00a0scientific theory or hypothesis. It\u2019s the fact that the knowledge is missing at key<\/em> and fundamental<\/em> points.<\/span><\/p>\n

Random mutations are not sufficient to explain the creation<\/em>\u00a0of entirely new structures. And how do they come about in the first place? Like Gould famously stated, \u201cwhat good is half a wing?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

I understand that you will always think any belief in God is \u201cargument from ignorance\u201d and \u201cGod of the gaps.\u201d You guys have plenty of gaps, too. You just pretend that you don\u2019t<\/em>, whereas you say that only Christians<\/em> do, and that we arbitrarily invoke \u201cGod\u201d as a desperate last-ditch attempt to explain the unknown.<\/span><\/p>\n

It\u2019s a lot more involved than that caricature! :-)<\/span><\/p>\n

This gets back to my reductio<\/em>. I say in reply that the atheist (here\u2019s more satirical reductio: *****WARNING!*******) simply replaces \u201catom of the gaps\u201d or \u201ccell of the gaps\u201d or \u201ctime of the gaps.\u201d In a materialistic outlook, those things create absolutely everything there is.<\/span><\/p>\n

If something is not yet understood, the atheist scientist in effect says, \u201cgiven enough time, it\u2019s entirely possible\u201d: as if time itself is a creative agent. It\u2019s not at all.<\/span><\/p>\n

You place your faith in the inherent abilities of atoms to do all that we see; yet cannot explain how they do<\/em> this, at the place of origins.<\/span><\/p>\n

This is Behe\u2019s ongoing argument. He explains the amazing subcellular processes and structures and then challenges scientists to tell us how these came about.<\/span><\/p>\n

Since they come up with zero, he proposes (which is now philosophy \/ religion and not strictly science, because science isn\u2019t the sum of all knowledge) that a higher intelligence did it.<\/span><\/p>\n

Feel free to generalize my position all you\u2019d like, but I\u2019m here to actually address those key \u2018gaps in knowledge\u2019, if you care to personally explore them. There are definitely points of missing knowledge, which I can point you toward, but it sounds like you\u2019re stuck on the layman\u2019s traps, not the one\u2019s actually being worked on by the scientific community.<\/span><\/p>\n

And please note, that I\u2019ve already addressed Michael Behe earlier. He has had a number of his claims already refuted. He isn\u2019t the hero you seem to be portraying him as for your cause.<\/span><\/p>\n

Don\u2019t get caught up in old arguments.<\/span><\/p>\n

Freebie:<\/span><\/p>\n

If you\u2019d like to talk to someone who has personally reviewed more Intelligent Design and Creationism articles than you\u2019ve probably ever seen or ever will see, please check out the work of a friend of mine<\/span> [link<\/a>].<\/span><\/p>\n

You might be amazed to find how few qualified people actually support the position.<\/span><\/p>\n

What Christians believe is not \u201cGod of the gaps\u201d: which is an atheist caricature. According to that, whenever we don\u2019t know something or can\u2019t figure it out, we shout \u201cGod\u201d and think that solves the problem.<\/span><\/p>\n

Less educated Christians do that, of course, but the educated ones know that belief in God can be rationally defended in many ways. There are 22 or so major theistic arguments.<\/span><\/p>\n

So the accurate way to describe this is that we can defend God through reason and accept His existence on that basis (and in faith). That being the case, when we are talking about the universe, it is relevant to believe that God (already having been accepted on other grounds) comes into play.<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s permitted because the Christians doesn\u2019t assume that all knowledge is empirical. We don\u2019t exclude God, as you do by your arbitrary, stunted categories of knowledge<\/span><\/p>\n

But under an empirical-only model, obviously mentioning God is impermissible. That has nothing to do with science<\/span>
\n(so we are told), which is rigidly defined as matter-only, excluding any non-material thing. Therefore, if we dare to mention Him in a creative capacity, you complain that this is anti-knowledge, anti-scientific, and \u201cGod of the gaps.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

That\u2019s where you need to be more acquainted with the history of science, which was overwhelmingly theistic and Christian. Modern science, of course, began in a heavily Christian culture: the Middle Ages in Europe.<\/span><\/p>\n

See my book on this topic<\/a>.<\/span><\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

God of the Gaps was was actually brought up by someone else who jumped into our conversation, though the topic would be related.<\/span><\/p>\n

My issue if your line of thought there was that you said \u201cEvolution wouldn\u2019t work with the Scientific Laws as know them.\u201d which is incorrect and not reflective of what you actually meant.<\/span><\/p>\n

To say they wouldn\u2019t work together implies a contradiction. (I was expecting you to mention the laws of thermodynamics or something equivalent.)<\/span><\/p>\n

To simply say there are missing pieces within the Theory of Evolution has nothing to do with \u2018Scientific Laws\u2019. We would also need to discuss where you stand on the Theory of Gravity, which has just as many \u2018holes\u2019.<\/span><\/p>\n

Nope. I\u2019m not talking about missing links, but as I already said, key processes concerning how new structures can come into existence. I don\u2019t think \u201crandom mutations\u201d sufficiently explain that (nor the origins of DNA and life), and I\u2019m not alone (not even among evolutionists).<\/span><\/p>\n

I\u2019d be delighted to discuss it more sometime.<\/span><\/p>\n

-Majorly bites tongue-<\/span><\/p>\n

Whenever you\u2019re interested in having that discussion, please reach out to me if possible. It sounds like there is a lot to shed light on.<\/span><\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

Many of you have been saying you don\u2019t know how matter could create itself and organize itself \/ evolve into what we have today. But you believe it did (because everything is here).<\/span><\/p>\n

You don\u2019t have the slightest idea how<\/em>\u00a0it happened. But you believe it did.<\/span><\/p>\n

Therefore, you have faith, according to what you said, yourself: \u201c\u2018Faith\u2019 is the belief in something which is not known or can not be known.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

What is the specific thing that is believed to be true despite a lack of evidence? Existence? That would seem to be self evident.<\/span><\/p>\n

The mysterious process that brought everything in the universe about, from nothing (!!!).<\/span><\/p>\n

Sure, if someone claims that there is a mysterious process from which the universe sprang, you\u2019d be right.<\/span><\/p>\n

That isn\u2019t the default claim of atheism, nor is it mine.<\/span><\/p>\n

Mine is that, \u201cThere are, minimally, equally viable alternatives to a deity, therefor I can not presume a deity to be the correct answer.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

~\u201dSome atheists have faith, Atheism is not based on faith.\u201d~<\/span><\/p>\n

I would say that atheists view themselves as singularly guided by reason (usually with the implication that others are quite deficient in that regard).<\/span><\/p>\n

When I look at them I say, \u201csure, they like reason and science, but neglect to see that science is a brand of philosophy, which reduces at bottom to unproven axioms and assumptions, like every other field of knowledge; therefore, the atheist must exercise \u2018faith\u2019 of this sort, which is not essentially<\/em>\u00a0different (though very different in many ways) from faith in God.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n

This is an excellent discussion with you, Ben. I\u2019m really enjoying it. It\u2019s what I hoped to achieve in the other thread, but never did. But I \u2018fess up to my share of the blame for that.<\/span><\/p>\n

That has definitely become the mantra of mainstream \u2018Atheism\u2019, regrettably\u2026<\/span><\/p>\n

At the beginning of the \u2018movement\u2019 for atheism to become more prominent, it was far more common to find the intellectuals who defended reason above faith with civility and properly upholding some number of virtues. It would seem any any ideology that becomes large enough suffers from a parasitic crowd that attaches itself for the free ride without actually holding on to the core principles.<\/span><\/p>\n

As much as I wish atheism could become a prominent player in the future, I think its inevitable role will simply be to serve as a balance for the current religious majority. Deflating its ego whenever gnosticism gets out of hand.<\/span><\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n

\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Charles Darwin in 1854, at the age of 45; five years before the publication of The Origin of Species, which he wrote as a Christian [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] This occurred in the combox of my post,\u00a0Clarifications\u00a0re:\u00a0Atheist\u00a0\u201cReductio\u201d\u00a0Paper., in August 2015. Ben McGrew\u2018s words will be in\u00a0blue. He conducted himself admirably as a \u201cgentleman and […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":3335,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124,112],"tags":[660,173,433,662,663],"class_list":["post-3331","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","category-philosophy-science","tag-cosmology","tag-creation","tag-evolution","tag-intelligent-design","tag-origins"],"yoast_head":"\nAmiable Dialogue with an Atheist on Materialist Evolution<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I'm agnostic on this question, but I believe that evolution of everything is not possible according to the laws of science as we know them (without God).\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3331","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3331"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3331\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3335"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3331"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3331"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3331"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}