{"id":3405,"date":"2015-09-21T23:45:42","date_gmt":"2015-09-22T03:45:42","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=3405"},"modified":"2017-05-20T14:37:30","modified_gmt":"2017-05-20T18:37:30","slug":"searching-for-the-perfect-beethovens-9th","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/09\/searching-for-the-perfect-beethovens-9th.html","title":{"rendered":"Searching for the Perfect Beethoven&#8217;s 9th Symphony"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"color: #141823; text-align: center;\"><a href=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/09\/BeethovenBust.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone wp-image-3406 size-full\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2015\/09\/BeethovenBust.jpg\" alt=\"BeethovenBust\" width=\"479\" height=\"599\"><\/a><\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823; text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #252525;\"><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Bust statue from death mask by Hagen, photographed in 1898 <\/span>[public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Beethoven_bust_statue_by_Hagen-crop.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823; text-align: center;\">[originally written in April 2015, with additional thoughts added on 9-21-15]<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823; text-align: center;\">* * * * *<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">This has been a fun pastime of mine, as of late. Beethoven symphony lovers basically fall into three camps: 1) the classical interpretation, 2) the Romantic interpretation, and 3) the \u201cperiod instruments\u201d preference. I am firmly in camp #2, as a Wagnerite and Mahlerite, brass lover (I played trombone in a great high school orchestra), and one who considers Beethoven as very much the First (and excepting Wagner, the best) Romantic composer: not the last of the classical composers (a la Mozart).<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">So the Romantics perhaps push Beethoven beyond what he himself would desire? Probably so, but I still like \u2019em played that way, whether Beethoven rolls over in his grave (like the rock song) or not! I think his music is quite forward-looking, not hearkening back to the 18th century. The period instruments movement is more so like the classical interpretation, and offers absurdly fast tempi (at least according to what might be called \u201cconductors\u2019 tradition\u201d). That might be fascinating musicology; not so pleasurable listening.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">Beethoven\u2019s contemporary Schubert was also clearly moving decisively to more Romantic styles in, e.g., his 8th and 9th symphonies. I think Beethoven was already doing that by the time of his Third (\u201cEroica\u201d) Symphony, way back in 1803; whereas the 9th was completed in 1824.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">This colors what I like and don\u2019t like in recordings. I have the concept in my head already, of \u201chow the 9th should be played.\u201d It should be thunderously dramatic, ponderous when it is supposed to be, sublime, majestic, dynamic in every sense, electric, solemn, and appropriately slow where it is \u201csupposed\u201d to be (mostly, the third movement), etc. The brass should be well-heard and dominant where it is featured.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">In my listening to various performances of the work, I ruled out BPO (Berlin Philharmonic) with Ferenc Fricsay (1958), but don\u2019t recall why. I\u2019ve also rejected VPO (Vienna Philharmonic) and Schmidt-Isserstedt (1966), which I thought was too perfunctory and lacking in spirit, dynamism, and punch (which is probably my opinion of the classical interpretation, whereas those who favor that would think of what I prefer as bombastic and overblown, etc.). The singing, however, was fabulous, with the magnificent Joan Sutherland (who was 6\u20192\u2033!) and Marilyn Horne acing the two female solo parts.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">I also listened to VPO with Karl Bohm (1971) a few years ago and rated it as 3 stars out of 5. That surprised me because his recordings of symphonies 3 and 6 with VPO are my very favorites. I don\u2019t think his #6 will ever be surpassed by anyone. I\u2019ve been enjoying it for 40 years.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">In the last week, I listened to two more. BPO\/Karajan, from 1976 I rated as three\u00a0stars. It had particularly good first and third movements, and is highly rated in many classical CD guides (of which I have seven in my library), but I couldn\u2019t get past what I felt were sound and balance (probably microphone placement) problems and a lousy choir. In my opinion, Deutsche Grammophon recordings rarely if ever equal the warm, golden, spacious sound of Decca \/ London classical recordings. I don\u2019t consider this as even arguable. Decca reigns supreme. Whatever they do or did, everyone else should copy. The closest is the old Columbia recordings of the late 50s through early 70s.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">Many critics are also very high on BPO\/Karajan from 1962. I listened to that and it got five stars! My comment on it: \u201cdramatic, dynamic, and heartfelt; great sound.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">Next on the docket was the critically highly regarded Cleveland Orchestra recording with George Szell (1963). It was pretty good (none of his recordings ever fail to be that), but again kept from a 5-star rating by the sound (slightly \u201ctinny\u201d and \u201clo-fi\u201d sounding, as if the microphones were too close, or clogged up with gum). And I listened to it on vinyl, so this wasn\u2019t merely CD transfer problems. I also thought the 3rd movement was played too fast and that is one of my \u201cnon-negotiables\u201d in terms of looking for the \u201cbest 9th.\u201d Very good, apart from sound difficulties, but no cigar . . . 3 stars\/<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">I then listened to\u00a0the Chicago Symphony (CSO) with Georg Solti (1972), which is regarded by not a few as the best (especially the singing). Going by my very high ratings of Solti in general: especially his Wagner, which is singular, I highly suspected that this might be \u201cthe one\u201d. But it wasn\u2019t. I gave it four stars, noting, \u201cbalance\u00a0problems,\u00a0lacks\u00a0intangible\u00a0elements\u00a0in\u00a0I,\u00a0III.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">More duds followed (all 2 stars or less): CSO\/Reiner: 1961 (\u201c<span style=\"color: #000000;\">weird sound &amp; balance; lacks spirit and energy\u201d),<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">PHO\/Klemperer: c. 1957 (\u201cII too slow, III too fast, IV perfunctory; lacks gravitas\u201d), NCC\/Toscanini: 1952 (\u201ctempi too fast; lousy sound\u201d), and LSO\/Stokowski: 1967 (\u201ctoo fast, lacks gravitas, sound problems\u201d).<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">I listened to VPO\/Bernstein (1979), and sure enough, ol\u2019 Lenny pulled off a five-star performance. The orchestral playing was impeccable: not surprising considering that the VPO is the best in the world. There is an intangible element here. Bernstein himself perhaps captured it in his notes for the album in 1980: \u201c. . . in Vienna, Beethoven\u2019s own city, and with that orchestra, his music suddenly acquired a place in the universe, and seemed to elicit from my mind ever new ideas about the composer\u2019s deepest intuitions.\u201d<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">I believe that one can hear that in this recording. The first movement is a dynamic powerhouse, the second a taut and dramatic rhythmic feast, while the third is a sublimely spiritual and sentimental fantasy-land for the heart and soul. The fourth movement is everything it should be, with fabulous singing. The Vienna strings steal the show throughout. This performance \/ recording captures the spirit (and above all the endless energy) of Beethoven, in my opinion. That is the simplest one-sentence summary.<\/p>\n<p style=\"color: #141823;\">I give Lenny the nod as the \u201cperfect\u201d performance and recording, but BPO\/Karajan (1962) is very close, and I managed to hear a third 5-star performance: Philharmonia\/Furtwangler from 8-22-54, which I described right after listening, as \u201coverpowering, majestic, inspired!\u201d<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I look forward to more recordings, since none of the above were later than 1979. There may be some new masterpieces awaiting . . . Any and all feedback welcomed!<\/span><\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Bust statue from death mask by Hagen, photographed in 1898 [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons] [originally written in April 2015, with additional thoughts added on 9-21-15] * * * * * This has been a fun pastime of mine, as of late. Beethoven symphony lovers basically fall into three camps: 1) the classical interpretation, 2) [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":3406,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[709,44],"tags":[706,704,705,702,708,703,707],"class_list":["post-3405","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-music","category-personal-page","tag-19th-century-romantic-music","tag-beethoven","tag-beethovens-9th-symphony","tag-classical-music","tag-orchestral-music","tag-reviews-of-classical-music","tag-symphonies"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Searching for the Perfect Beethoven&#039;s 9th Symphony<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Beethoven symphony lovers fall into three camps: 1) classical interpretation, 2) Romantic interpretation, &amp; 3) &quot;period instruments&quot;. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"Searching for the Perfect Beethoven's 9th Symphony","description":"Beethoven symphony lovers fall into three camps: 1) classical interpretation, 2) Romantic interpretation, & 3) \"period instruments\". 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3405","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=3405"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/3405\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/3406"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=3405"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=3405"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=3405"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}