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Libby Anne<\/a> was raised (like so many atheists I have encountered) as a fundamentalist Protestant and later became an atheist. Her blog on Patheos is called Love, Joy, Feminism<\/em><\/a>. Today I am responding to her piece, \u201cJesus, the Trinity, and Subterfuge\u201d<\/a>\u00a0(7-29-19). I want to focus on her specific claim as to whether Jesus claimed to be God or not. Her words will be in blue<\/span>.<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n I spent my evangelical childhood and adolescence studying apologetics; as a young adult, . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n I don\u2019t know how she missed all the biblical passages I shall bring to bear, then . . . As I mentioned in a recent reply to another atheist<\/a>:<\/p>\n It\u2019s one thing to simply state, \u201cI don\u2019t believe or accept what the Bible \/ Christianity teaches.\u201d We understand that this is (broadly speaking) the position of the atheist.<\/p>\n It\u2019s quite another, on the other hand, to state, \u201cThe Bible teaches\u00a0particulars<\/em>\u00a0x, y, and z\u201d . . . which opens one up to the possibility of being shown that the claims made are demonstrably false statements as to fact.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Thus, in the present instance, Libby is making assertions about what Jesus did or did not claim. Thus, it is a discussion of biblical interpretation (hermeneutics) and exegesis). And that is my area. I\u2019ve been doing apologetics for 38 years, with special emphasis on the Bible, both as an evangelical and as a Catholic.<\/p>\n Early Christians argued over who Jesus was precisely\u00a0because<\/em>\u00a0he never directly claimed to be God. He was\u00a0vague<\/em>.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n This is absolutely false, and I will thoroughly refute it below (as the bulk of this reply). But first let me briefly tackle a few other claims she makes.<\/p>\n Seeking to understand the relationship between Jesus and God the Father, early Christians came up with varying ideas\u2014some argued that he was an ordinary person whom God raised up and elevated to some semi-divine level, effectively adopting as his son; others argued that Jesus\u00a0was<\/em>\u00a0God\u2019s son, preceding from him and subject to him.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n This completely ignores the distinction between heresy and orthodoxy. Christianity was clear from the beginning that Jesus was divine, and that the Holy Trinity (albeit less developed than it was later: like all doctrines) was true. Whoever denied these things were heretics (not<\/em> Christians), and recognized as such by the early Church.<\/p>\n These early Christians, remember, did not have a settled canon of the Bible, and relied instead on a broad array of writings, some of which are now lost.<\/span><\/p>\n That\u2019s correct. But the Gospels and several of Paul\u2019s epistles were accepted as canonical fairly early on. And there was a robust apostolic tradition: as can be seen in the writings of early figures like St. Ignatius and St. Polycarp.<\/p>\n The doctrine of the Trinity took hundreds of years and multiple church councils to create. You would think that if it were all that important, Jesus would have been clear about it\u2014what better time for a deity to speak directly to complicated doctrinal issues than when they\u2019re literally\u00a0here,<\/em>\u00a0in person! . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n When it comes to the Trinity, the New Testament is confusing at best. If the Bible were\u00a0at all<\/em>\u00a0clear about this, it wouldn\u2019t have taken hundreds of years and multiple church councils to work out the relationship between God and Jesus (don\u2019t even get me started on the Holy Spirit).<\/span><\/p>\n All Christian doctrines develop over time, just as, for example, science or philosophy are constantly developing as time goes on. We would fully expect<\/em> this. Christians (despite constant atheist charges to the contrary) think just like everyone else does. And with thinking comes further understanding \u2014 more in-depth knowledge and comprehension \u2014 over time. Development of doctrine is my favorite topic in theology and one of my specialties. I have a web page about it<\/a> and a book<\/a> as well.<\/p>\n The Holy Trinity is fairly apparent in Holy Scripture itself, as I have contended<\/a>: though not utterly obvious<\/em>. It takes a little work and study\u00a0 to see the whole \u201cbiblical picture. I also compiled, as one of my earliest apologetics projects, very lengthy collections of the hundreds of biblical indication for the deity of Jesus<\/a> and the Holy Trinity<\/a>. I shall draw from those today.<\/p>\n And that brings us back to our main topic: a reply to Libby\u2019s contention: that Jesus \u201cnever directly claimed to be God. He was\u00a0vague<\/em>.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n I feel like a mosquito on a nude beach: where to begin<\/em>? To read the New Testament and miss all these is like looking up in the sky on a clear summer day at noon and not being able to locate the sun. I don\u2019t mean to be crass or insulting, but it\u2019s really just about that bad.<\/p>\n All passages will be from RSV. Jesus\u2019 own words will be in green<\/span>:<\/p>\n *****<\/p>\n Direct Statements of Jesus\u2019 Equality with God the Father<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n John 5:17-18, 21-22\u00a0<\/i><\/b>But Jesus answered them, \u201cMy Father is working still, and I am working.\u201d<\/span> [18] This was why the Jews sought all the more to kill him, because he not only broke the sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.\u2026 [21] For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. [22] The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,\u201d<\/span> (cf. 16:14-15; 17:10)<\/p>\n Matthew 16:27\u00a0<\/b>For the Son of man\u2026 will repay every man for what he has done.<\/span> (cf. Rev 22:12;\u00a0Ps 62:12; Is 40:10)<\/p>\n John 14:7-9\u00a0<\/i><\/b>\u201cIf you had known me, you would have known my Father also; henceforth you know him and have seen him.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0[8] Philip said to him, \u201cLord, show us the Father, and we shall be satisfied.\u201d [9] Jesus said to him, \u201cHave I been with you so long, and yet you do not know me, Philip? He who has seen me has seen the Father; how can you say, \u2018Show us the Father\u2019?\u201d<\/span> (cf. 12:45)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n [The Old Testament plainly taught that God<\/em> was the judge of men:<\/p>\n 1 Samuel 2:10\u00a0<\/b>\u2026The LORD will judge the ends of the earth\u2026 (cf. Gen 18:25; 1 Chr 16:33; Ps 7:11; 9:8; 96:10; Is 2:4; 33:22)<\/p>\n Psalm 50:6\u00a0<\/b>The heavens declare his righteousness, for God himself is judge! (cf. 58:11; 67:4; 82:8; 94:2; Jer 11:20)<\/p>\n Ecclesiastes 12:14\u00a0<\/b>For God will bring every deed into judgment, with every secret thing, whether good or evil. (cf. 3:17; Ezek 18:30; 33:20; Joel 3:12)]<\/p>\n John 10:30, 33\u00a0<\/i><\/b>\u201cI and the Father are one.\u201d<\/span>\u2026 [33] The Jews answered him, \u201cIt is not for a good work that we stone you but for blasphemy; because you, being a man, make yourself God.\u201d<\/p><\/blockquote>\n Eternal and Uncreated<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n John 8:24\u00a0<\/i><\/b>I told you that you would die in your sins, for you will die in your sins unless you believe that I am he.<\/span> (cf. 8:28; 13:19; Ex 3:13-15)<\/p>\n John 8:58\u00a0<\/b>Jesus said to them, \u201cTruly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n Revelation 1:17\u00a0<\/b>\u2026Fear not, I am the first and the last,<\/span> (cf. 2:8; 22:13, 16;\u00a0Is 44:6; 48:12)<\/p>\n Revelation 22:13\u00a0<\/b>I am the Alpha and the Omega,\u2026<\/span> [identified as Jesus in 22:16] (cf.\u00a0Rev 1:8; 21:6)<\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n [God alone is eternal and uncreated:<\/p>\n Genesis 21:33\u00a0<\/b>\u2026the LORD, the Everlasting God. (cf. Ex 3:14; Ps 90:2; 93:2; Is 40:28; Hab 1:12)<\/p>\n Romans 16:26\u00a0<\/b>\u2026the eternal God\u2026. (cf. Dt 33:27; Is 57:15; 1 Tim 1:17) ]<\/p>\n Divine \u201cI\u201d\u00a0<\/b><\/span><\/p>\n Jesus teaches in His own authority (\u201cI say to you\u201d) in the Sermon on the Mount (Mt 5:18-34, etc.), and many other passages. The prophets, in contrast, spoke as God\u2019s messengers in the second person (\u201cThe Lord says\u2026\u201d). He often talks in a way in which only God could speak. For instance, when He addresses the seven churches in the book of Revelation, He is clearly speaking to them as God (Rev 1:17-3:22). Perhaps the most striking example of this occurs in Matthew 23:<\/p>\n Matthew 23:34, 37\u00a0<\/b>Therefore I send you prophets and wise men and scribes\u2026 [37] O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, killing the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!<\/span><\/p>\n<\/blockquote>\n Eternal Creator<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n Revelation 3:14\u00a0<\/i><\/b>\u2026the beginning [arche<\/em>] of God\u2019s creation.<\/span><\/p>\n Revelation 22:13\u00a0<\/b>I am\u2026 the beginning and the end.<\/span> [identified as Jesus in 22:16] (cf. 21:6)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n [Arche<\/em> is the Greek word for \u201cbeginning\u201d \u2014 from which we derive our word \u201carchitect.\u201d Its literal meaning is \u201corigin, active cause, source, uncreated principle.\u201d Thus, Revelation 3:14 Jesus is saying that He is the \u201carchitect\u201d or creator of the universe. In 21:6\u00a0arche\u00a0<\/i>is also applied to the Father, so it can\u2019t possibly mean \u201ccreated being.\u201d]<\/p>\n Jesus is Worshiped, and He Accepts<\/em>\u00a0Worship<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n John 5:23\u00a0<\/i><\/b>that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n [God alone is to be worshiped:<\/p>\n Exodus 34:14\u00a0<\/b>(for you shall worship no other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), (cf. 20:3)<\/p>\n Deuteronomy 8:19\u00a0<\/b>And if you forget the LORD your God and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I solemnly warn you this day that you shall surely perish. (cf. 11:16; 17:3; 29:26; 30:17; 1 Ki 9:6-9; Jer 16:11; 22:9; 25:6; Dan 3:28)<\/p>\n Luke 4:8\u00a0<\/b>And Jesus answered him, \u201cIt is written, \u2018You shall worship the Lord your God, and him only shall you serve.\u2019\u201d<\/span> (cf. Mt 4:10) ]<\/p>\n Jesus is Omnipotent<\/strong><\/span><\/p>\n John 5:21\u00a0<\/b>For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will.<\/span> [implied: the Father\u2019s unique characteristics are also possessed by the Son; cf. 2:19; 3:35; 5:19-20; 6:40; 10:17-18; 13:3]<\/p>\n John 10:28\u00a0<\/b>and I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.<\/span> (cf.\u00a0Dt 32:39; Jn 10:29)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n [God alone is omnipotent:<\/p>\n Job 42:2\u00a0<\/b>I know that thou canst do all things, and that no purpose of thine can be thwarted. (cf. 11:7-11; Prov 19:21; Is 14:27)<\/p>\n Jeremiah 32:17\u00a0<\/b>\u2026Nothing is too hard for thee, (cf. Gen 18:14; Dt 32:39; Ps 33:9; Is 46:10; Jer 32:17; Rom 1:20) ]<\/p>\n Jesus is King of the World<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n John 18:37\u00a0<\/b>Pilate said to him, \u201cSo you are a king?\u201d Jesus answered, \u201cYou say that I am a king. For this I was born, and for this I have come into the world,\u2026\u201d<\/span> (cf. 1:49; 12:13, 15; 18:36; Mt 27:11; Mk 15:2)<\/p><\/blockquote>\n [The Old Testament taught that only God was such a king:<\/p>\n 1 Samuel 12:12\u00a0<\/b>\u2026the LORD your God was your king. (cf. Ps 95:3)<\/p>\n Psalm 10:16\u00a0<\/b>The LORD is king for ever and ever; (cf. 24:8, 10; 47:2; 84:3; 98:6; 103:19; Zech 14:9, 16)<\/p>\n Isaiah 33:22\u00a0<\/b>\u2026the LORD is our ruler, the LORD is our king; he will save us. (cf. 43:15; 44:6; Jer 10:10; Mic 4:7; 1 Tim 1:17; Rev 15:3) ]<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n Photo credit:\u00a0<\/strong>Christ Pantocrator<\/em> (Church of St. Alexander Nevsky, Belgrade); photo by<\/span>\u00a0Petar Milo\u0161evi\u0107<\/a>\u00a0(2-20-17)<\/span> [Wikimedia Commons<\/a> \/\u00a0Creative Commons<\/a>\u00a0Attribution-Share Alike 4.0 International<\/a>\u00a0license]<\/p>\n ***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":" Libby Anne was raised (like so many atheists I have encountered) as a fundamentalist Protestant and later became an atheist. Her blog on Patheos is called Love, Joy, Feminism. Today I am responding to her piece, \u201cJesus, the Trinity, and Subterfuge\u201d\u00a0(7-29-19). I want to focus on her specific claim as to whether Jesus claimed to […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":36143,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124,172],"tags":[459,1306,466,1308,3159,468,469,1310,427,3160,1309,1324],"class_list":["post-36137","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","category-trinitarianism-christology","tag-christology","tag-deity-of-jesus","tag-divinity-of-jesus","tag-god-the-son","tag-godhood-of-jesus","tag-holy-trinity","tag-incarnation","tag-jesus","tag-jesus-christ","tag-jesus-is-god","tag-jesus-of-nazareth","tag-theology-proper"],"yoast_head":"\n\n
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