{"id":36741,"date":"2019-08-10T18:40:36","date_gmt":"2019-08-10T22:40:36","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=36741"},"modified":"2019-08-10T18:41:02","modified_gmt":"2019-08-10T22:41:02","slug":"the-border-wall-dialogue-is-dead-example-419","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/the-border-wall-dialogue-is-dead-example-419.html","title":{"rendered":"The Border Wall: &#8220;Dialogue is Dead&#8221; Example #419"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><div id=\"js_i\" class=\"_5pbx userContent _3576\" data-testid=\"post_message\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"K\"}'>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-36744\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2019\/08\/BorderWall2.png\" alt=\"\" width=\"640\" height=\"360\"><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">There seems to be absolutely no discussion on this across the stark positions of fer or agin. Never the twain shall meet.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I\u2019ve tried very hard to explain and elaborate upon a politically conservative, biblical, Catholic, and compassionate position, based on biblical teaching, and sociological data concerning crime and drugs. I\u2019ve put up several blog papers about it, additional ones on Facebook, and now one at <em>National Catholic Register<\/em> (with a possible follow-up to come).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">No one who disagrees is willing to have an intelligent, non-insulting discussion about it.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">At Patheos, where I blog, there have been many articles against the wall (since many Catholic columnists there are politically liberal or non-conservative, at any rate): most with the usual empty-headed charges that anyone who is in favor of the wall and border security is a racist and a bigot and overall scumbag, with no concern for the plight of millions of poor, etc. And this is led by the thunderingpseudo-prophet Jeremiah II (whom I shall not name).\u00a0Jeremiah II wrote one of his typical idiotic denunciations of anyone who favors a wall, a week ago:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s his base of racists he [President Trump] must please. He promised them a Wall and they will hate him if he breaks that promise, because punishing the poor and the brown is the very core of the contract he made with his base of white racists. Cruelty to the poor and brown matters more to them than their own happiness and prosperity.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I just saw another Patheos post that compared proponents of a wall to the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah: who wanted to keep non-residents out. That\u2019s a new one: A for cleverness, if not profundity . . .<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">These posts get lots of backslapping \/ rah-rah \/ \u201cattaboy! comments from those who agree. If someone dares to disagree, they are set upon by the mob (you know the routine).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">This is the problem in America right now with political discourse (and also ethical and theological discussion, for that matter). Virtually no one wants to talk to or seek to understand anyone who differs from them.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Instead, they want to demonize and caricature opposing views and engage in groupthink in negatively characterizing and putting down those (<em>en masse<\/em>) who differ from them. That\u2019s not rational discourse or dialogue. \u201cThey\u2019re the evil, wicked ones. My side is virtuous and singularly and exclusively Catholic and pure as the driven snow.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">It\u2019s classic prejudicial thinking. It\u2019s what the Nazis did to Jewish people: caricatured, mocked, lied about, and endlessly scapegoated them: all the way to persecution and genocide. It\u2019s how anti-Catholics treat Catholics and Catholicism all the time. It\u2019s how Communists and atheists treat Christianity. And it\u2019s how the Democrat Party <em>always<\/em>\u00a0treats conservatives and Republicans (especially during election seasons).<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I don\u2019t have to assume anything negative about anyone in talking about this. I simply want to have a true dialogue: give my view and see how it is critiqued, and to critique other views also and see if they stand up under scrutiny.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><strong><span style=\"color: #ff0000;\">Related Reading:<\/span><\/strong><\/p>\n<div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/05\/catholic-churchs-wise-views-on-illegal-immigration.html\" target=\"_blank\">Catholic Church\u2019s Wise Views on Illegal Immigration<\/a>\u00a0[7-6-10]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2016\/01\/debate-on-deportation-of-illegal-immigrants.html\" target=\"_blank\">Debate on Deportation of Illegal Immigrants<\/a>\u00a0(vs. Andy Kirchoff) [2-21-12]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/09\/sensible-catholic-immigration-policies-dialogue-w-puerto-rican.html\" target=\"_blank\">Sensible Immigration Policies: Agreement with Puerto Rican Friend<\/a>\u00a0[7-30-12]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/re-refugee-terrorist-crises-my-00-02.html\" target=\"_blank\">Regarding the Refugee &amp; Terrorist Crises (My $00.02)<\/a>\u00a0[11-21-15]<\/div>\n<div>*<br>\n<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/09\/immigration-bible-w-john-cavanaugh-okeefe.html\" target=\"_blank\">Immigration &amp; the Bible<\/a>\u00a0(w John Cavanaugh-O\u2019Keefe) (see also the\u00a0<a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\/posts\/1697259266975718\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">longer Facebook version<\/a>) [9-18-17]<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2017\/09\/immigration-dialogue-w-john-cavanaugh-okeefe.html\" target=\"_blank\">Intense Immigration Dialogue<\/a>\u00a0(w John Cavanaugh-O\u2019Keefe) [9-23-17]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/06\/the-dreamers-ought-to-be-allowed-to-stay-daca.html\" target=\"_blank\">The \u201cDreamers\u201d Ought to be Allowed to Stay (DACA)<\/a>\u00a0[9-5-17; expanded on 6-21-18]<br>\n*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2018\/06\/do-jesus-and-the-bible-advocate-open-borders.html\" target=\"_blank\">Do Jesus and the Bible Advocate Open Borders?<\/a>\u00a0[9-18-17; expanded on 6-21-18]<br>\n*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/01\/border-wall-bleeding-heart-conservative-perspective.html\" target=\"_blank\">Border Wall: \u201cBleeding Heart Conservative\u201d Perspective<\/a>\u00a0[1-11-19]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"http:\/\/www.ncregister.com\/blog\/darmstrong\/borders-and-the-bible\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Borders and the Bible<\/a>\u00a0[<em>National Catholic Register<\/em>, 1-14-19]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/01\/catholic-humanitarian-case-for-a-mexican-border-wall.html\" target=\"_blank\">Catholic Humanitarian Case for a Mexican Border Wall<\/a>\u00a0[1-28-19]<br>\n*<\/div>\n<div><a class=\"decorated-link decorated-link\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/01\/border-laws-a-homeless-jesus-reply-to-henry-karlson.html\" target=\"_blank\">Border Laws &amp; a \u201cHomeless Jesus\u201d: Reply to Henry Karlson<\/a>\u00a0[1-31-19]<\/div>\n<div>*<\/div>\n<div><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<div class=\"_3x-2\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"H\"}'>\n<div data-ft='{\"tn\":\"H\"}'>\n<div class=\"mtm\">\n<div>\n<div class=\"_5cq3 _1ktf\" data-ft='{\"tn\":\"E\"}'><\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<\/div>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>(originally 1-15-19 on Facebook)<\/p>\n<p><strong>Photo credit:<\/strong> [public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/www.needpix.com\/photo\/download\/858859\/donald-trump-wall-america-first-mexico-berlin-wall-large-continent-state\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Needpix.com<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>There seems to be absolutely no discussion on this across the stark positions of fer or agin. Never the twain shall meet. I\u2019ve tried very hard to explain and elaborate upon a politically conservative, biblical, Catholic, and compassionate position, based on biblical teaching, and sociological data concerning crime and drugs. I\u2019ve put up several blog [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":36744,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[289],"tags":[2777,7435,4316,1015,4311,4310,4315,4314,1516,1892,4312,4309,4313],"class_list":["post-36741","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-political-ethical-moral-issues","tag-border-crisis","tag-border-wall","tag-catholic-church-immigration","tag-catholic-social-teaching","tag-children-of-illegal-immigrants","tag-daca","tag-deportation","tag-dreamers","tag-illegal-immigrants","tag-illegal-immigration","tag-immigration-laws","tag-immigration-policy","tag-legal-immigrants"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>The Border Wall: &quot;Dialogue is Dead&quot; Example #419<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"I&#039;ve tried to explain a politically conservative, biblical, Catholic, &amp; 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Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. 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Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/36741","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=36741"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/36741\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/36744"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=36741"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=36741"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=36741"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}