{"id":37302,"date":"2019-08-22T10:03:08","date_gmt":"2019-08-22T14:03:08","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=37302"},"modified":"2019-08-22T10:03:08","modified_gmt":"2019-08-22T14:03:08","slug":"david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html","title":{"rendered":"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus&#8217; Will &#038; Passion?"},"content":{"rendered":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><head><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><meta http-equiv=\"content-type\" content=\"text\/html; charset=utf-8\"><\/head><body><p style=\"text-align: center;\"><img loading=\"lazy\" decoding=\"async\" class=\"alignnone size-full wp-image-37326\" src=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2019\/08\/JesusGethsemane.jpg\" alt=\"\" width=\"500\" height=\"700\"><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Dr. David Madison<\/strong>\u00a0is an atheist who was a Methodist minister for nine years: with a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Boston University. He\u00a0<\/span><span style=\"color: #000000;\">believes we are not at all\u00a0<\/span><em style=\"color: #000000;\">sure<\/em><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u00a0whether Jesus in fact said\u00a0<\/span><em style=\"color: #000000;\">anything<\/em><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u00a0recorded in the Gospels. The atheist always has a convenient \u201cout\u201d (when refuted in argument about some biblical text) that Jesus never said it\u00a0<\/span><em style=\"color: #000000;\">anyway<\/em><span style=\"color: #000000;\">\u00a0and that the text in question was simply made up and added later by unscrupulous and \u201ccultish\u201d Christian propagandists.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">I always refuse to play this silly and ultimately intellectually dishonest game, because there is no way to \u201cwin\u201d with such a stacked, subjective deck. I start with the assumption (based on <a href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2015\/11\/god-historical-arguments-copious-resources.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\">many historical evidences<\/a>) that the manuscripts we have are quite sufficient for us to know what is <em>in<\/em> the Bible (<em>believe<\/em> it or <em>not<\/em>).\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Dr. Madison himself \u2014 in<\/span><a href=\"http:\/\/www.debunking-christianity.com\/2019\/07\/things-we-wish-jesus-hadnt-said.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\"> his anti-Jesus project<\/a>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">noted above, granted my outlook, strictly in terms of\u00a0<em>practical<\/em>\u00a0\u201cx vs. y\u201d debate purposes:<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cFor the sake of argument, I\u2019m willing to say, okay, Jesus was real and, yes, we have gospels that tell the story.\u201d<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #000000;\">And in the combox:<\/span>\u00a0<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cSo, we can go along with their insistence that he did exist. We\u2019ll play on their field, i.e., the gospels.\u201d<span style=\"color: #000000;\"> Excellent! Otherwise, there would be no possible discussion at all.<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\"><span style=\"color: #000000;\">His words below will be in <span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">blue<\/span>.<\/span><\/p>\n<p style=\"text-align: center;\">*****<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">He wrote an article called,<\/span>\u00a0<a href=\"http:\/\/www.debunking-christianity.com\/2018\/10\/this-howling-conflict-between-mark-and.html\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">\u201d \u2018This Howling Conflict between Mark and John\u2019: Yet so many Christians don\u2019t seem to have a clue\u201d<\/a> (10-26-18).<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Even if there wasn\u2019t a Beloved Disciple, there is a Beloved Gospel\u2014and that would be John, in which Jesus has a superhuman commanding presence. Well, as seen through the eyes of adoring faith. For those who aren\u2019t so adoring, that \u2018commanding presence\u2019 looks more like bragging, insufferable egregious egotism. Which is what can happen\u2014as in John\u2019s case\u2014when the author isn\u2019t even\u00a0<i>trying<\/i>\u00a0to depict a real human. . . . Mark was schooled in Greek tragedy . . . and constructed his Jesus story accordingly, i.e., he made Jesus a real human who agonized over his fate; Mark assumed that even the Son of God could do that.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">But John would have none of it; a human Jesus was out of the question. As an exercise to shock Christians out of faith-complacency, I suggest that they read Mark and John back-to-back. It should jump out at them, . . . If they aren\u2019t puzzled\u2014if they aren\u2019t alarmed\u2014then they\u2019re not paying attention.\u00a0<i>Someone<\/i>\u00a0is lying about their Jesus. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">John . . . doesn\u2019t even mention\u2014as do Matthew, Mark, and Luke\u2014that Jesus was distraught<\/span> [during the time when His Passion was imminent]<span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">, . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Really? Not human, and not distraught?:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 11:32-33, 38<\/strong> (RSV)\u00a0Then Mary, when she came where Jesus was and saw him, fell at his feet, saying to him, \u201cLord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.\u201d\u00a0[33] When Jesus saw her weeping, and the Jews who came with her also weeping, he was deeply moved in spirit and troubled; . . . [38]\u00a0Then Jesus, deeply moved again, came to the tomb; . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 12:27\u00a0<\/strong>\u201cNow is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? `Father, save me from this hour\u2019? No, for this purpose I have come to this hour.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 13:21\u00a0<\/strong>When Jesus had thus spoken, he was troubled in spirit, and testified, \u201cTruly, truly, I say to you, one of you will betray me.\u201d<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Dr. Madison cites\u00a0Louis A. Ruprecht, Jr.:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u2022 \u201cThe Synoptic story of Gethsemane raised two critical questions that are nearly impossible to answer. First, if Jesus was alone when he prayed, then how can anyone know exactly what he said? Second, if Jesus was on such intimate terms with God, then how can their wills be so dramatically out of sync at the very end of the story? John\u2019s evangel cuts the complicated Gordian knot of such questions with a very simple answer: Jesus didn\u2019t pray that way.\u201d (p. 74)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u2022 \u201cIf the Synoptic story of Gethsemane is a story about praying in the face of temptation prior to betrayal, then John\u2019s is no longer the same story at all.\u201d (p. 74) . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u2022 \u201c\u2026John had to erase the dramatic episode that Mark located in Gethsemane\u2014a powerful story about prayer and temptation, about the sheer humanity of Jesus\u2019s doubts and the awful depth of his suffering. Mark\u2019s tragedy hinges on the fact that we are witnesses to the collision between two wills, a tragic struggle for self-definition in which we are invited to participate and to recognize as our own. John simply cannot tell a story like that because his theology cannot allow for a collision of wills between Father and Son or for a divided picture of Jesus.\u201d (p. 76) Remember these key words:\u00a0<b><i>his theology cannot allow<\/i><\/b>. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Ruprecht makes it starkly clear that Mark and John thought very differently about Jesus. . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u2022 \u201c\u2026 we modern people must work very carefully, with more finally developed historical habits, to be able to feel the shock that John\u2019s evangel might have created in an ancient Christian audience that knew and admired Mark\u2019s version. The power of Marks performance has something to do with Jesus\u2019s passionate humanity, something to do with compassion in the face of unimaginable suffering, and it has everything to do with tragedy. John turned all this upside down by writing an anti-tragic evangel in which Jesus\u2019s humanity is muted and all compassion, much like the wavering disciples, has fled.\u201d (p. 101) . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">\u201cGethsemane admits a level not just of humanity, but of actual doubt, and that Luther finds completely unacceptable in the Savior of humankind.\u201d (p. 174) . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\">Unbeknown to most of the folks in the pews, the New Testament is a minefield of conflicting, contradictory theologies\u2014as well as portraits of Jesus that cannot be reconciled. Oblivious to all this, they show up to\u00a0<i>worship<\/i>. It\u2019s comforting to hear nice verses read from the Good Book on Sunday morning. So there was a howling conflict between Mark and John? That would be too much information.<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">There is no supposed \u201ccollision of wills between Father and Son\u201d in the Synoptic Gospels. Jesus made it clear (as recorded in those three Gospels) that <em>His will was fully in line with the Father\u2019s will<\/em> that He suffer and die for the sake of all men. There is no hint that He <em>disagrees<\/em> with that or that he \u201cdoubts\u201d; only that He is <em>agonized<\/em> over what is to come (as any human being would be):<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 26:36-42\u00a0<\/strong>Then Jesus went with them to a place called Gethsem\u2019ane, and he said to his disciples, \u201cSit here, while I go yonder and pray.\u201d\u00a0[37] And taking with him Peter and the two sons of Zeb\u2019edee, he began to be sorrowful and troubled.\u00a0[38] Then he said to them, \u201cMy soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch with me.\u201d\u00a0[39] And going a little farther he fell on his face and prayed, \u201cMy Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me; <span style=\"color: #008000;\">nevertheless, not as I will, but as thou wilt.<\/span>\u201d\u00a0[40] And he came to the disciples and found them sleeping; and he said to Peter, \u201cSo, could you not watch with me one hour?\u00a0[41] Watch and pray that you may not enter into temptation; the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.\u201d\u00a0[42] Again, for the second time, he went away and prayed, \u201c<span style=\"color: #008000;\">My Father, if this cannot pass unless I drink it, thy will be done<\/span>.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Mark 14:32-36\u00a0<\/strong>And they went to a place which was called Gethsem\u2019ane; and he said to his disciples, \u201cSit here, while I pray.\u201d [33] And he took with him Peter and James and John, and began to be greatly distressed and troubled.\u00a0[34] And he said to them, \u201cMy soul is very sorrowful, even to death; remain here, and watch.\u201d\u00a0[35] And going a little farther, he fell on the ground and prayed that, if it were possible, the hour might pass from him.\u00a0[36] And he said, \u201cAbba, Father, all things are possible to thee; <span style=\"color: #008000;\">remove this cup from me;<\/span> <span style=\"color: #008000;\">yet not what I will, but what thou wilt<\/span>.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Luke 22:39-42<\/strong>\u00a0And he came out, and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives [where Gethsem\u2019ane is located]; and the disciples followed him.\u00a0[40] And when he came to the place he said to them, \u201cPray that you may not enter into temptation.\u201d\u00a0[41] And he withdrew from them about a stone\u2019s throw, and knelt down and prayed,\u00a0[42] \u201c<span style=\"color: #008000;\">Father, if thou art willing, remove this cup from me; nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done<\/span>.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Likewise, the unity of the wills of Jesus and God the Father was also expressed by Jesus in John\u2019s Gospel: \u201cAnd he who sent me is with me; he has not left me alone, for I always do what is pleasing to him\u201d (Jn 8:29);\u00a0\u201cNow is my soul troubled. And what shall I say? `Father, save me from this hour\u2019? No, for this purpose I have come to this hour\u201d (Jn 12:27); \u201cI lay down my life, that I may take it again.\u00a0[18] No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father\u201d (Jn 10:17-18)\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">Moreover, Jesus shows no inclination whatsoever to not willingly suffer and die for the purpose of redemption, and indeed, rather casually predicted what was to come, over and over: as seen in all four Gospels:<\/span><\/p>\n<blockquote><p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 16:21<\/strong>\u00a0From that time Jesus began to show his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things from the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 17:22-23<\/strong>\u00a0As they were gathering in Galilee, Jesus said to them, \u201cThe Son of man is to be delivered into the hands of men,\u00a0[23] and they will kill him, and he will be raised on the third day.\u201d And they were greatly distressed.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 20:17-19<\/strong>\u00a0And as Jesus was going up to Jerusalem, he took the twelve disciples aside, and on the way he said to them,\u00a0[18] \u201cBehold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man will be delivered to the chief priests and scribes, and they will condemn him to death,\u00a0[19] and deliver him to the Gentiles to be mocked and scourged and crucified, and he will be raised on the third day.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 26:1-2<\/strong>\u00a0When Jesus had finished all these sayings, he said to his disciples,\u00a0[2] \u201cYou know that after two days the Passover is coming, and the Son of man will be delivered up to be crucified.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Matthew 26:31-32<\/strong>\u00a0Then Jesus said to them, \u201cYou will all fall away because of me this night; for it is written, `I will strike the shepherd, and the sheep of the flock will be scattered.\u2019\u00a0[32] But after I am raised up, I will go before you to Galilee.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Mark 8:31<\/strong>\u00a0And he began to teach them that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and the chief priests and the scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Mark 9:31<\/strong>\u00a0for he was teaching his disciples, saying to them, \u201cThe Son of man will be delivered into the hands of men, and they will kill him; and when he is killed, after three days he will rise.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Mark 10:32-34<\/strong>\u00a0And they were on the road, going up to Jerusalem, and Jesus was walking ahead of them; and they were amazed, and those who followed were afraid. And taking the twelve again, he began to tell them what was to happen to him,\u00a0[33] saying, \u201cBehold, we are going up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man will be delivered to the chief priests and the scribes, and they will condemn him to death, and deliver him to the Gentiles;\u00a0[34] and they will mock him, and spit upon him, and scourge him, and kill him; and after three days he will rise.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Mark 12:1-11<\/strong>\u00a0And he began to speak to them in parables. \u201cA man planted a vineyard, and set a hedge around it, and dug a pit for the wine press, and built a tower, and let it out to tenants, and went into another country.\u00a0[2] When the time came, he sent a servant to the tenants, to get from them some of the fruit of the vineyard.\u00a0[3] And they took him and beat him, and sent him away empty-handed.\u00a0[4] Again he sent to them another servant, and they wounded him in the head, and treated him shamefully.\u00a0[5] And he sent another, and him they killed; and so with many others, some they beat and some they killed.\u00a0[6] He had still one other, a beloved son; finally he sent him to them, saying, `They will respect my son.\u2019\u00a0[7] But those tenants said to one another, `This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and the inheritance will be ours.\u2019\u00a0[8] And they took him and killed him, and cast him out of the vineyard.\u00a0[9] What will the owner of the vineyard do? He will come and destroy the tenants, and give the vineyard to others.\u00a0[10] Have you not read this scripture: `The very stone which the builders rejected\u00a0has become the head of the corner;\u00a0[11] this was the Lord\u2019s doing,\u00a0and it is marvelous in our eyes\u2019?\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Luke 9:22<\/strong> . . .\u00a0\u201cThe Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected by the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and on the third day be raised.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Luke 9:44<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cLet these words sink into your ears; for the Son of man is to be delivered into the hands of men.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Luke 18:31-33<\/strong>\u00a0And taking the twelve, he said to them, \u201cBehold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written of the Son of man by the prophets will be accomplished. [32] For he will be delivered to the Gentiles, and will be mocked and shamefully treated and spit upon;\u00a0[33] they will scourge him and kill him, and on the third day he will rise.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 2:19-21<\/strong>\u00a0Jesus answered them, \u201cDestroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.\u201d\u00a0[20] The Jews then said, \u201cIt has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and will you raise it up in three days?\u201d\u00a0[21] But he spoke of the temple of his body.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 3:14<\/strong>\u00a0And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so must the Son of man be lifted up,\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 8:28<\/strong>\u00a0So Jesus said, \u201cWhen you have lifted up the Son of man, then you will know that I am he, . . .\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 10:15, 17-18<\/strong> . . .\u00a0I lay down my life for the sheep. . . .\u00a0[17] For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.\u00a0[18] No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father.\u201d\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 12:23-24<\/strong>\u00a0And Jesus answered them, \u201cThe hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified.\u00a0[24] Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it bears much fruit.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 12:31-33<\/strong>\u00a0\u201cNow is the judgment of this world, now shall the ruler of this world be cast out;\u00a0[32] and I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all men to myself.\u201d\u00a0[33] He said this to show by what death he was to die.\u00a0<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 13:1<\/strong>\u00a0Now before the feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart out of this world to the Father, having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. (cf. 14:18-19, 27-29)<\/span><\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>John 16:5\u00a0<\/strong>But now I am going to him who sent me; . . . (cf. 16:7, 16-22, 28; 17:13)<\/span><\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\">There is no imagined \u201cdifference\u201d or \u201ccontradiction\u201d in these respects (or any other) between Mark and John, or Matthew and Luke, and John. It\u2019s simply one of many \u201cMadison myths.\u201d<\/span><\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p><span style=\"color: #000000;\"><strong>Photo credit:\u00a0<\/strong><\/span><span style=\"color: #0000ff;\"><i>Christ in Gethsemane<\/i> (1886), by Heinrich Hofmann (1824-1911)<\/span> [public domain \/ <a href=\"https:\/\/commons.wikimedia.org\/wiki\/File:Christ_in_Gethsemane.jpg\" class=\" decorated-link\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"nofollow\">Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n<p>***<\/p>\n<p>\u00a0<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Dr. David Madison\u00a0is an atheist who was a Methodist minister for nine years: with a Ph.D. in Biblical Studies from Boston University. He\u00a0believes we are not at all\u00a0sure\u00a0whether Jesus in fact said\u00a0anything\u00a0recorded in the Gospels. The atheist always has a convenient \u201cout\u201d (when refuted in argument about some biblical text) that Jesus never said it\u00a0anyway\u00a0and [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":37326,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[124,31,172],"tags":[2519,1738,1043,745,258,2639,9137,335,525,6519,1367,9119,648,6522,9285,9291,1028,9288,9231,9294],"class_list":["post-37302","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-atheism-agnosticism","category-bible-and-tradition","category-trinitarianism-christology","tag-alleged-biblical-contradictions","tag-anti-christian-bigotry","tag-anti-theism","tag-anti-theists","tag-atheism","tag-atheist-exegesis","tag-atheist-hermeneutics","tag-atheists","tag-bible-contradictions","tag-contradictions-in-the-bible","tag-critiques-of-christianity","tag-david-madison","tag-debunking-christianity","tag-divine-inspiration","tag-gospel-of-john","tag-gospel-of-john-vs-gospel-of-mark","tag-gospel-of-mark","tag-johns-gospel","tag-marks-gospel","tag-synoptic-gospels"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v21.1 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus&#039; Will &amp; Passion?<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"There is no imagined &quot;difference&quot; between Mark &amp; John, or Matthew &amp; Luke, &amp; John, regarding Jesus&#039; will &amp; the passion &amp; cross. It&#039;s simply one of many &quot;Madison myths.&quot;\" \/>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus&#039; Will &amp; Passion?\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"There is no imagined &quot;difference&quot; between Mark &amp; John, or Matthew &amp; Luke, &amp; John, regarding Jesus&#039; will &amp; the passion &amp; cross. It&#039;s simply one of many &quot;Madison myths.&quot;\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:url\" content=\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:site_name\" content=\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:author\" content=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\" \/>\n<meta property=\"article:published_time\" content=\"2019-08-22T14:03:08+00:00\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:image\" content=\"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2019\/08\/JesusGethsemane.jpg\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:width\" content=\"500\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:height\" content=\"700\" \/>\n\t<meta property=\"og:image:type\" content=\"image\/jpeg\" \/>\n<meta name=\"author\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:card\" content=\"summary_large_image\" \/>\n<meta name=\"twitter:label1\" content=\"Written by\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data1\" content=\"Dave Armstrong\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:label2\" content=\"Est. reading time\" \/>\n\t<meta name=\"twitter:data2\" content=\"13 minutes\" \/>\n<script type=\"application\/ld+json\" class=\"yoast-schema-graph\">{\"@context\":\"https:\/\/schema.org\",\"@graph\":[{\"@type\":\"WebPage\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html\",\"name\":\"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus' Will & Passion?\",\"isPartOf\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\"},\"datePublished\":\"2019-08-22T14:03:08+00:00\",\"dateModified\":\"2019-08-22T14:03:08+00:00\",\"author\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\"},\"description\":\"There is no imagined \\\"difference\\\" between Mark & John, or Matthew & Luke, & John, regarding Jesus' will & the passion & cross. It's simply one of many \\\"Madison myths.\\\"\",\"breadcrumb\":{\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html#breadcrumb\"},\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"ReadAction\",\"target\":[\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html\"]}]},{\"@type\":\"BreadcrumbList\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html#breadcrumb\",\"itemListElement\":[{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":1,\"name\":\"Home\",\"item\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\"},{\"@type\":\"ListItem\",\"position\":2,\"name\":\"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus&#8217; Will &#038; Passion?\"}]},{\"@type\":\"WebSite\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/\",\"name\":\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism\",\"description\":\"Catholic biblical apologetics\",\"potentialAction\":[{\"@type\":\"SearchAction\",\"target\":{\"@type\":\"EntryPoint\",\"urlTemplate\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}\"},\"query-input\":\"required name=search_term_string\"}],\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\"},{\"@type\":\"Person\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e\",\"name\":\"Dave Armstrong\",\"image\":{\"@type\":\"ImageObject\",\"inLanguage\":\"en-US\",\"@id\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/\",\"url\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"contentUrl\":\"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g\",\"caption\":\"Dave Armstrong\"},\"description\":\"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \\\"This Rock\\\" (now called \\\"Catholic Answers Magazine\\\"), \\\"Envoy Magazine\\\" (Patrick Madrid), \\\"The Catholic Answer,\\\" \\\"The Coming Home Journal,\\\" \\\"Gilbert Magazine\\\" (American Chesterton Society), and \\\"The Latin Mass.\\\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \\\"The Michigan Catholic\\\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \\\"Catholic Answers Live\\\" (twice), \\\"Faith and Family Live\\\" (Steve Wood), \\\"Kresta in the Afternoon,\\\" \\\"Son Rise Morning Show,\\\" \\\"Catholic Connection\\\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \\\"The Catholics Next Door.\\\" His large and popular website, \\\"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\\\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \\\"Envoy Magazine.\\\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \\\"index\\\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \\\"Surprised by Truth\\\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \\\"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\\\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \\\"The Catholic Verses\\\" (2004), \\\"The One-Minute Apologist\\\" (2007), \\\"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\\\" (2009), \\\"The Quotable Newman\\\" (editor: 2012), and \\\"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\\\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \\\"The New Catholic Answer Bible\\\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \\\"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\\\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \\\"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\\\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \\\"Quotable Wesley\\\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).\",\"sameAs\":[\"https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/\",\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798\",\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics\"],\"url\":\"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong\"}]}<\/script>\n<!-- \/ Yoast SEO plugin. -->","yoast_head_json":{"title":"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus' Will & Passion?","description":"There is no imagined \"difference\" between Mark & John, or Matthew & Luke, & John, regarding Jesus' will & the passion & cross. It's simply one of many \"Madison myths.\"","robots":{"index":"index","follow":"follow","max-snippet":"max-snippet:-1","max-image-preview":"max-image-preview:large","max-video-preview":"max-video-preview:-1"},"canonical":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html","og_locale":"en_US","og_type":"article","og_title":"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus' Will & Passion?","og_description":"There is no imagined \"difference\" between Mark & John, or Matthew & Luke, & John, regarding Jesus' will & the passion & cross. It's simply one of many \"Madison myths.\"","og_url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html","og_site_name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","article_author":"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","article_published_time":"2019-08-22T14:03:08+00:00","og_image":[{"width":500,"height":700,"url":"https:\/\/wp-media.patheos.com\/blogs\/sites\/572\/2019\/08\/JesusGethsemane.jpg","type":"image\/jpeg"}],"author":"Dave Armstrong","twitter_card":"summary_large_image","twitter_misc":{"Written by":"Dave Armstrong","Est. reading time":"13 minutes"},"schema":{"@context":"https:\/\/schema.org","@graph":[{"@type":"WebPage","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html","name":"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus' Will & Passion?","isPartOf":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website"},"datePublished":"2019-08-22T14:03:08+00:00","dateModified":"2019-08-22T14:03:08+00:00","author":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e"},"description":"There is no imagined \"difference\" between Mark & John, or Matthew & Luke, & John, regarding Jesus' will & the passion & cross. It's simply one of many \"Madison myths.\"","breadcrumb":{"@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html#breadcrumb"},"inLanguage":"en-US","potentialAction":[{"@type":"ReadAction","target":["https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html"]}]},{"@type":"BreadcrumbList","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/08\/david-madison-synoptics-vs-john-re-jesus-will-passion.html#breadcrumb","itemListElement":[{"@type":"ListItem","position":1,"name":"Home","item":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong"},{"@type":"ListItem","position":2,"name":"David Madison: Synoptics vs. John Re Jesus&#8217; Will &#038; Passion?"}]},{"@type":"WebSite","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#website","url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/","name":"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism","description":"Catholic biblical apologetics","potentialAction":[{"@type":"SearchAction","target":{"@type":"EntryPoint","urlTemplate":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?s={search_term_string}"},"query-input":"required name=search_term_string"}],"inLanguage":"en-US"},{"@type":"Person","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/471eaa20e441eca4bb1ea50393cf632e","name":"Dave Armstrong","image":{"@type":"ImageObject","inLanguage":"en-US","@id":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/#\/schema\/person\/image\/","url":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","contentUrl":"https:\/\/secure.gravatar.com\/avatar\/820e6db89734ae7a9e5dac8d498f5ac7?s=96&d=mm&r=g","caption":"Dave Armstrong"},"description":"Dave Armstrong is a Catholic author and apologist, who has been actively proclaiming and defending Christianity since 1981, and Catholicism in particular since 1991 (full-time since December 2001). Formerly a campus missionary, as a Protestant, Dave was received into the Catholic Church in February 1991, by the late, well-known catechist and theologian, Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave\u2019s articles have appeared in many influential Catholic periodicals, including \"This Rock\" (now called \"Catholic Answers Magazine\"), \"Envoy Magazine\" (Patrick Madrid), \"The Catholic Answer,\" \"The Coming Home Journal,\" \"Gilbert Magazine\" (American Chesterton Society), and \"The Latin Mass.\" He also writes a featured column for every issue of \"The Michigan Catholic\": published by the archdiocese of Detroit, and was editor for most of the apologetics tracts published by the St. Paul Street Evangelization apostolate. Dave\u2019s apologetics and writing apostolate was the subject of a feature article in the May 2002 issue of \"Envoy Magazine.\" He served as the staff moderator at the Internet discussion forum for The Coming Home Network, from 2007-2010. Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37302","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=37302"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/37302\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/37326"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=37302"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=37302"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=37302"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}