{"id":38685,"date":"2019-09-15T15:09:40","date_gmt":"2019-09-15T19:09:40","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/admin.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/?p=38685"},"modified":"2019-09-15T15:09:40","modified_gmt":"2019-09-15T19:09:40","slug":"ad-orientem-facing-the-altar-at-mass-a-defense","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/2019\/09\/ad-orientem-facing-the-altar-at-mass-a-defense.html","title":{"rendered":"\u201cAd Orientem\u201d (Facing the Altar at Mass): A Defense"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<\/head>
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<\/div>\n
[from a\u00a0thread on Mark Brumley\u2019s Facebook page<\/a>]<\/div>\n
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***<\/div>\n

I\u2019m not legalistic\u00a0at all\u00a0<\/i>about this, but I think it is undeniable that\u00a0ad orientem<\/i><\/a>\u00a0makes more sense, given what is happening in the Mass.<\/p>\n

If the prayers at Mass are directed to God (obviously prayers aren\u2019t directed towards the congregation!), then clearly it is more \u201cnatural\u201d to face God in the Tabernacle on the altar while saying the prayers, and offering the sacrifice. That\u2019s why the Church for most of her history in most places has done it this way (just as we face the Tabernacle in eucharistic adoration). It doesn\u2019t come out of nowhere. It has a \u201cprimacy\u201d of past history and liturgical tradition.<\/p>\n

Like I said, I\u2019m not legalistic or pharisaical about this; nor am I regarding communion on the tongue at an altar rail (that I myself do every week). I\u2019ve noted several times in public posts how reception of the Holy Eucharist in the early Church was standing and in the hand for 6-9 centuries, depending on location. But I think arguments can be made in defense of this, without putting down the alternative.<\/p>\n

Protestant pastors much more so \u201crepresent God to the people\u201d because they don\u2019t have the Eucharist and are not offering the Sacrifice of the Mass, so that preaching is front and center. Those things make a huge difference. The Catholic priest is offering with the people, and an offering is towards an altar: analogous to the Old Testament priesthood that was continued in the New Testament by Christ being our high priest, and each Catholic priest being\u00a0in persona Christi<\/i><\/a>\u00a0and\u00a0alter Christus<\/i><\/a>.<\/p>\n

A priest can still offer without facing an altar (and a Mass where that happens is just as valid), but it clearly makes more sense and continues the priestly tradition since Moses, to face the altar; offer on the altar, etc. The high priest used to face the ark of the covenant, where God was specially present; now we have Jesus present Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity, so there is more reason to face the altar to make the offering than there was even in the old covenant with bulls and sheep and other offerings.<\/p>\n

Facing the congregation thing is much more consonant with Protestant theology and tendency against sacramentalism (even by their own self-understanding). Someone said it was more consistent with the New Testament priesthood; I countered by saying that it fits in more so with Protestant pastors, who aren\u2019t priests at all.<\/p>\n

The priest and Jesus Christ are simultaneously offering (along with all present) because the Mass is a re-presentation of the historic crucifixion: it\u2019s made present. The Mass is a sacrificial offering, which is priest and congregation together (not contradistinguished from each other, insofar as the offering is concerned: symbolized by one facing the other). Together they are offering to God, as opposed to the priest merely talking to the people, or bringing God to them (that applies much more to the Liturgy of the Word and homily [i.e., the first part of the Mass] ). That\u2019s why the liberal \u201cdialogue\u201d thing applied to the Mass (i.e.,\u00a0after<\/i>\u00a0the readings and homily) was beside the point from the get-go.<\/p>\n

* * *<\/p>\n

I think we have to go all the way back to the OT priesthood; the NT priesthood as a developed and \u201cfulfilled\u201d continuation of that prototype, and also what has been done throughout the history of the liturgy and why. And I tried to touch on some of that: basically off-the-cuff in my original comments, because I\u2019m exploring this myself to some extent.<\/p>\n

Folks can be (and too often are) overly dogmatic and legalistic about liturgical issues (I oppose that). But other folks can be dogmatic and intolerant about any discussion of liturgical issues at all, as if they have no relevance. I oppose that, too.\u00a0Because some folks are divisive and legalistic about some things, does not mean that no one should ever discuss them at all. Why should we give into those who can\u2019t have an amiable discussion? I will talk about anything<\/em>\u00a0related to Catholicism or Christianity and will do it amiably, regardless of how imperfectly someone else<\/em>\u00a0may do so.

I\u2019m always the idealist: seeking to make things better; a better way, rather than giving in to the counsel of despair and cynicism because things are so often screwed-up in this fallen world. We don\u2019t give up; we try to show a better way. I think that is both Christianity and a thinking \/ conscientious approach to life.

There is plenty of prejudice (or very strong bias \/ antipathy) against the Novus Ordo<\/em> from \u201ctraditionalists\u201d and (especially) radical Catholic reactionaries. But there is also prejudice (or at least a strong non-hostile bias) regarding liturgical tradition issues such as this one and others. I think some of the latter is showing up. Both are wrong; I oppose both, and I will express my opinion!<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

From Fr. Joseph Fessio<\/a>:<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

But in any event, I can say without fear of contradiction from anyone who knows the facts that there is simply no tradition whatsoever, in the history of the Church, of Mass facing the people. Now, is it a sin? No. Is it wrong?\u00a0No. Is it permitted? Yes. It is required? Not at all. In fact in the Latin Roman Missal, which is the typical edition that all the translations of the Missal are based on (not always translated properly, but at least based on it) the rubrics actually presuppose the Mass facing East, the Mass facing the Lord. Now, for the first 25 years of my priesthood, I celebrated Mass like you see it when you go to a typical parish: in English, facing the people. It can be done reverently; I\u2019ve seen it done reverently; I\u2019ve tried to do it reverently myself. But the last three years, after study and reflection, I\u2019ve changed. I actually think the Mass facing the people is a mistake. But, even if it\u2019s not, at least this much we can say: there is no permission required to say Mass facing God, facing the tabernacle, facing East, facing with the people. And it should be given equal rights, it seems to me, with Mass facing the people. It\u2019s been around for 1800 years at least, and it should be allowed to continue. I happen to think it\u2019s symbolically richer.\u00a0<\/span><\/span><\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n

(originally 11-20-13)<\/p>\n

\n

Photo credit:<\/span><\/strong> The Mass of St. Giles<\/em>, detail, by\u00a0Meister des Saint Gilles\u00a0(c. 1500)<\/span> [public domain \/ Wikimedia Commons<\/a>]<\/p>\n

***<\/p>\n<\/div>\n

<\/div>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

[from a\u00a0thread on Mark Brumley\u2019s Facebook page] *** I\u2019m not legalistic\u00a0at all\u00a0about this, but I think it is undeniable that\u00a0ad orientem\u00a0makes more sense, given what is happening in the Mass. If the prayers at Mass are directed to God (obviously prayers aren\u2019t directed towards the congregation!), then clearly it is more \u201cnatural\u201d to face God […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":2331,"featured_media":38697,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[58],"tags":[940,4004,416,941],"class_list":["post-38685","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-eucharist-liturgy","tag-ad-orientem","tag-altar","tag-catholic-mass","tag-mass-facing-the-altar"],"yoast_head":"\n\u201cAd Orientem\u201d (Facing the Altar at Mass): A Defense<\/title>\n<meta name=\"description\" content=\"Clearly it is \u201cnatural\u201d and unobjectionable to face God in the Tabernacle on the altar (ad orientem) while saying prayers and offering the sacrifice to Him. 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Dave has been interviewed on many nationally syndicated Catholic radio shows, including \"Catholic Answers Live\" (twice), \"Faith and Family Live\" (Steve Wood), \"Kresta in the Afternoon,\" \"Son Rise Morning Show,\" \"Catholic Connection\" (Teresa Tomeo), and \"The Catholics Next Door.\" His large and popular website, \"Biblical Evidence for Catholicism,\" was online from March 1997 to March 2007, and received the 1998 Catholic Website of the Year award from \"Envoy Magazine.\" His blog of the same name (now transferred to Patheos), begun in February 2004, contains more than 1,500 papers, at least 500 debates or dialogues, and over 50 distinct \"index\" web pages. Unsolicited correspondence has indicated many hundreds of conversions (or returns) to the Catholic faith as a result, by God's grace, of these writings. Dave's conversion story was published in the bestselling book \"Surprised by Truth\" (edited by Patrick Madrid; San Diego: Basilica Press, 1994). Sophia Institute Press has published six of his books: \"A Biblical Defense of Catholicism\" (Foreword by Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J., 1996 \/ 2003), \"The Catholic Verses\" (2004), \"The One-Minute Apologist\" (2007), \"Bible Proofs for Catholic Truths\" (2009), \"The Quotable Newman\" (editor: 2012), and \"Proving the Catholic Faith is Biblical\" (2015). He is co-author (with Dr. Paul Thigpen) of the inserts for \"The New Catholic Answer Bible\" (Our Sunday Visitor: 2005), and editor for \"The Wisdom of Mr. Chesterton: The Very Best Quotes, Quips, and Cracks from the Pen of G. K. Chesterton\" (Saint Benedict Press \/ TAN Books: 2009). \"100 Biblical Arguments Against Sola Scriptura\" was published by Catholic Answers in May 2012. His \"Quotable Wesley\" compilation was published by (Protestant \/ Wesleyan publisher) Beacon Hill Press in April 2014. Several of his 49 books are bestsellers in their field. Dave maintains a popular personal Facebook page, a Facebook author page, and has a Twitter account as well. He offers almost all of his books in e-book form on his own Biblical Catholicism site (http:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/), at a permanent deep discount: only $2.99 for ePub, mobi, and AZW, and $1.99 for PDF. His writing has been enthusiastically endorsed or recommended by many leading Catholic apologists, authors, and priests, including Dr. Scott Hahn, Fr. Peter M. J. Stravinskas, Marcus Grodi, Patrick Madrid, Steve Ray, Tim Staples, Devin Rose, Mike Aquilina, Al Kresta, Karl Keating, Fr. Dwight Longenecker, Brandon Vogt, Marcellino D'Ambrosio, and Fr. John A. Hardon, S. J. Dave has been happily married to his wife Judy since October 1984. They have three sons and a daughter, and reside in southeast Michigan (metro Detroit).","sameAs":["https:\/\/biblicalcatholicism.com\/","https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/dave.armstrong.798","https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/@LuxVeritatisApologetics"],"url":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/author\/davearmstrong"}]}},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38685","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/2331"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=38685"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/38685\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/38697"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=38685"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=38685"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.patheos.com\/blogs\/davearmstrong\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=38685"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}